1. #1
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    【Just for fun】Hunter redesign idea (seeking friendly feedback).

    Just for my own amusement I am cobbling together my own verion of a revamp of Hunters. The aim to make all three aspects feel different but still retain a strong sense of what a hunter is or could be. The Basic premise is as follows:

    • BM will become a Melee+Pet specialization with vaguely tankish overtones and a strong thematic push toward the 'savage wild man' aesthetic. It will be nearly balanced for both DW and 2H agility weapons like a Wind Walker.
    • SV will be renamed 'Ranger' and will be a Ranged+Pet specialization with healer overtones, and an emphasis on the use of Poison DoTs, traps, and Fire attacks. It will also have several healing abilities (typical of Rangers in other RPGs).
    • MM will be a Ranged-Petless specialization, with pure DPS aesthetic/overtones, such as threat management and targeting prevention utilities. Even though MM will not have pets, it will still be able to provide 1-of-any-5 utilities to a fight, like pets do currently (and an MM hunter can switch the currently chosen utility spell with a cast-time spell equivalent to dismissing a pet).

    • Aspects will entirely utility/defensive based. Each spec gets it's unqie Aspect (listed Below) plus three new aspects:
    Aspects of the Shark: Increases swim speed and allows underwater breathing.
    Aspect of the Cat: Camouflage becomes true stealth, but reduces walking speed. Also reduces fall damage.
    Aspect of the Albatross: Increases mount speed and reduces agro radius, prevents forced dismounting.

    • Abilities such as camouflage and tracking will be retained and shared by all specs. Also, all specs will have a DoT like Serpent Sting but each spec gets a different name for it (Blow Dart for BM, Cobra Venom for RG and Rending Shot for MM), and all specs will have focus dumps like Arcane Shot and focus builders like Steady/Cobra Shot but each spec gets a different name and passive effects appropriate to their spec.

    **Disclaimer 1:
    This is just for fun. I am not PROPOSING changes, I am merely building a fan-idea, and want your constructive criticism of it. I am not trying to destroy your beloved Spec, which ever it may be.

    **Discliamer 2:
    I am not very good at PVP and the specs may seem broken or OP for that aspect, please make helpful (but not disparaging) suggestions accordingly.

    Beast Master:
    (Melee + Pet)

    • Uses a Combo-Point/Burning-Embers-like resource called ‘Savagery’; focus is spent to stack Savagery (up to 20) which is spent on finisher abilities (that cost 5).
    • Uses a gap closer + increased running speed + snares to stay in melee range (pets have Blink Strikes, Charge, Dash, ranged attacks and various other gap closers to overcome AI difficulties).
    • Various summoned guardians, two DoTs, high pet damage.
    • Passive execute through primary focus-dump.
    • About 50/50 pet-to-hunter dmg.
    • Has an AoE damage mitigation raid CD, and a temporary Tanking CD
    • (A bit like a rogue or feral, but with a pet)

    Mastery:
    Beast Mastery: Increases the damage done by your pets and guardians by [20% + X%].

    Spec-specific bonus Aspect:
    Aspect of the Wolf: Increases dodge chance by X% and movement speed by X%.

    Single target rotation:
    Blow Dart: Instant, 25yd, 15/120 focus, deals X nature damage over 18s.
    Grants one stack of Savagery, X% chance per tick to make your next Tiger Strike free, deal 400% damage and grant a stack of savagery (Proc chance diminishes on multiple targets).

    Raptor Strike: Instant, melee, 30/120 focus, deals X damage and grants 2 stacks of Savagery (4 if it crits), X% chance to make your pet’s next 2 Bites have a 100% chance to crit. Always crits against targets with less than 20% health.

    Tiger Strike: Instant, melee, 20/120 focus, deals X damage and increases all damage done by your pet by 50% for 20s.

    Hawk Strike: Instant, melee, deals X damage, grants both you and your pet 5 focus, and refreshes the duration on Blow Dart.

    Head Hunter’s Axe: Instant, 30yd, 20/120 focus, toss an axe at the target, deals low damage but slows the target’s movement speed by 30% (stacking up to two times) and grants one stack of Savagery.

    Savage Attack: Instant, pet-30yds, 5/20 Savagery, command your pet to viciously attack the target for X damage.

    Gore: Instant, pet-30yds, 5/20 savagery, command your pet to gore the target causing X bleed damage over 25s. Savage Attacks against Gored targets deal 20% more dmg.

    Dire Beast: Instant, 40yd, 20s CD (cd reduced by haste, stacks up to 3 times), call a random wild beast to join the fray attacking your enemies for 10 seconds, each attack will grant you 5 focus, shares CD and stacks with Carrion Crows.

    (Bite: your pet’s basic attack, 3sec cd, 25/120 focus (50/120 for double dmg if your pet has >50 focus), grants 5 focus to the Hunter, and has a chance to make the hunter’s next 2 Raptor Strikes or Mongoose Strikes grant a bonus stack of Savagery
    AoE:
    Lunge: Instant, 25yds, 30s CD, jump to the target, causing X damage to all enemies within 10 yards, if you lunge from less than 15yds the cooldown is only 20 seconds, if you lunge from less than 5yds, the cooldown is only 10 seconds.

    Mongoose Strike: Instant, melee, 40/120 focus, deals X damage and X damage over 10 seconds (rolling DoT) to all enemies within 8 yards of the target, grants 2 stacks of Savagery, and for four seconds your pet’s auto-attacks and Bite will also deal damage to all enemies within 8 yards of its target for 4 seconds.

    Lynx Rush: Instant, pet-30yds, 5/20 savagery, command your pet to viciously attack the target and all other enemies within 8 yards of the target for X damage.

    Carrion Crows: Instant, 40yd, 20s CD (CD reduced by haste, stacks up to 3 times), calls a flock of cunning and vicious crows to attack and harass all enemies within 8 yards of the target for 10 seconds, shares CD and stacks with Dire Beast. Slows all affected targets’ movement speed by 50%.

    Notables:
    All the various Pet Utilities…
    Blink Strikes: (baseline)
    Bola: (AoE Root/Stun, equivalent to Binding Shot)
    Intimidation: (same)
    Bestial Wrath: (same)
    Stampede: (dps only, no buffs or utilities)
    Master’s Call: (same)
    Exotic pets (can tame exotic beasts (aesthetic only), And all pets (exotic or mundane) now come with two utility skills instead of one.
    Damage Absorption Shield (as a Savagery spender)
    Spirit Bond (same)
    AoE damage-reducing CD (like PW: Barrier)
    Tanking CD: (like Symbiosis: Growl for Rogues, or HotW for Druids)
    Group Speed Buff CD (like stampeding Roar)


    _____+++______________________________________________________________+++_____


    Ranger: (Ranged + Pet)

    • Uses Poison and Fire attacks. (And pets).
    • Entirely effective at range.
    • Multiple DoTs, multiple procs, multiple short cd/high damage abilities.
    • Pet attack based Execute
    • The only spec that uses traps.
    • About 25/75 pet-to-hunter damage
    • Raid Utilities includes several healing abilities such as a raid heal CD, a battle rez, a random party heal (c.f. Ysera’s Gift), and a single instant free heal with a cooldown.
    • (A bit like a shadow priest or warlock)

    Mastery:
    Nature’s Warden: The direct damage portion of your Fire Attacks and the damage over time portion of your Poison Attacks are increased by [15% + X%].

    Spec-specific bonus Aspect:
    Aspect of the Viper: Increases resistance to magic damage and reduces the duration of stun, fear and sleep effects.

    Single Target Rotation:
    Cobra Venom: Instant, 40yd, 15/100 focus, deals X nature damage over 18s, increases all damage against the target by 15%.

    Spider Bites: 1.5s cast, 40yd, 15/100 focus, deals X nature damage per stack over 14s, with a 50% chance to regenerate 1 focus per target per tick (every two seconds). The DoT starts at 4 stacks, if it has more than one stack then every tick it will attempt to spread to another target, dropping by one stack in strength on both targets, spreading to up to 8 targets per cast. (SB can only spread to a target without the DoT or with lower stacks.)

    Snake Arrow: 1.8s (cast, can be cast while moving), 40yd, deals X nature damage, grants 10 focus and refreshes the duration of Cobra Venom.

    Flame Arrow: Instant, 40yd, 30/100 focus, deals X fire damage instantly, and X fire damage over 5 seconds (rolling).

    Black Arrow: Instant, 40yd, focus-free, 20s CD (CD reduced by haste, stacks up to 2 times), deals X Firestorm damage instantly and X Firestorm damage over 10 seconds, increases pet damage against the target by 30% for the duration, has an X% chance per tick to refresh the CD on Explosive Arrow and make your next Explosive Arrow within 5 seconds focus free (this buff can stack twice).

    Explosive Arrow: Instant, 12s CD, 40yd, 30/100 focus, deal X fire damage instantly and X damage over 2 seconds (rolling).

    Kill Command: Instant, 10s cd, pet-25yd, 30/100 focus, commands your pet to dispatch the target, can only be used on targets less than 25% health, if the target dies, your focus cost is refunded, if the target does not die, the cooldown is reset to only 3 seconds.

    (Bite: your pet’s basic attack, 3sec cd, 25/100 focus (50/100 for double dmg if your pet has >50 focus.
    AoE:
    Serpent Spread: 1.5s cast, 40yd, 20/100 focus, spreads the target’s current Cobra Venom DoT to all enemies within 10 yards of the target for 40% damage.

    Brush Fire: Instant, 40/100 focus, sends a wave of wild fire toward your target, burning all enemies in its path as well as all those within 8 yards of the target.

    Explosive Trap: 30s CD, Set a trap at the target location, the next target to walk into it will trigger an explosion that will knockdown and deal X damage to all targets within 8 yards, and X damage over 15 seconds to all targets who are in or enter into the area of effect. (deals very little damage to one target, twice as much damage to a second target, and 3 times as much damage to any third other greater number of targets)

    Spider Bites: (see above)

    Notables:
    All the various Pet Utilities…
    Bear Trap (Roots)
    Frost Trap (AoE slow)
    Snake Trap (AoE, inflicts casting speed, magic damage taken, and attack debuffs)
    Tiger Trap (Incapacitates)
    Some generic 2~4 minute DPS CD, I dunno…
    Fervor: (1m CD but the focus-over-time component lasts three times as long)
    Various Healing Abilities, including a moderate free single-target instrant heal with a moderate CD (CD reduced by killing a target), a long CD raid Heal, and a random party-member heal-over-time (c.f. Gift of Ysera)
    Battle Rez (baseline).


    _____+++______________________________________________________________+++_____

    Marksman: (Ranged, No Pet)

    • No Pet.
    • Entirely effective at range.
    • Multiple cast time attacks, but also many instant attacks.
    • Rolling bleed DoT off most attacks (c.f. Ignite).
    • Aimed Shot = long cast nuke used as opener or reduced and enhanced by other attacks.
    • Cleave mechanic based around debuff (ricochet), applied off GCD.
    • Raid utilities include an area-targeted Smoke Bomb and AoE in-combat Camouflage CD (both to prevent attacks against allies).
    • Has threat shifting utility (for both self and allies.)
    • (A bit like a fire mage)

    Mastery:
    Hollow Tipped Ammo: Your attacks which deal Tear damage, now deal an additional [10% + X%] more of their direct damage as bleed damage over time.

    Spec-specific Primary Aspect:
    Aspect of the Hawk: Increases armor by X and increases healing received by X%.

    Single Target Rotation:
    Rending Shot: Instant, 40yd, 15/100 focus, deals X bleed damage over 25s. (0.5 second faster GCD)

    Hunter’s Mark: Instant, 1.5s CD, 40yd, 10/100 focus, NO GCD. Deals no damage, generates no threat. Causes all your ranged attacks to deal an additional 40% damage to the target for 30 seconds (cannot stack with ricochet on the same target, debuff can only be cast on 1 target at a time)

    Ricochet: Instant, 1.5s CD, 40yd, 10/100 focus, NO GCD, deals no damage; generates no threat; marks a target to receive up to 30% of all direct damage cause by Shot abilities against the current recipient of your Piercing Shot Debuff. Can be placed on up to 2 targets at a time. Ricocheted damage also yields 15% Tear damage over time.

    (Tear: Your Arcane Shot, Aimed Shot, Steady Shot, Crack Shot, Kill Shot Barrage, and Ricochet abilities all deal additional 10% bleed damage as a rolling DoT that last 5 seconds.)

    Arcane Shot: Instant 40yd, 30/100 focus, ignores armor, X% chance on hit reset cooldown on Crack Shot. Causes 5% damage as Tear DoT

    Aimed Shot: 3s cast, 40yd, focus-free, can only be cast out of combat or when activated by Steady Shot (entering combat mid-cast will not cancel the cast). Always critically strikes, stuns target for 2 seconds, deals extra damage equal to your critical strike chance. 15% damage as Tear DoT

    Steady Shot: 2s cast, (can be cast while moving) 40yd, grants 10 focus, every three steady shots activates Aimed Shot, allowing you to cast it in combat. 5% damage as Tear DoT

    Crack Shot: 1.5s cast, 8s CD, 40yd, 30/100 focus, deals X damage, refreshes Rending shot on the target, and reduces the cast time of your next Aimed Shot by 1/3 stacking up to 3 times. 20% damage as Tear.

    Kill Shot: (same)

    AoE:
    Grenade: Instant, 40yd, 45s CD (stacks up to 2 times), deal X damage to all enemies within the targeted area. Affected Targets are dazed.

    Multi-Shot: 2s cast (can be cast while moving), 40yd, grants 10 focus, strikes all enemies within 8 yards of the target for X Damage, increases damage of your next barrage by 10% (stacking up to 5 times)

    Barrage: Spends 10 focus/second, hits all enemies within 8yds of the target each second, also causes 10% of damage done as tear damage. Lasts until canceled, focus runs out or all targets in combat are dead.

    Notables:

    Utility spells: Can learn up to five of all the various raid-buffs or debuffs or cc/utility abilities as provided by normal hunter pets, but can only use one at a time. (Requires a 4 second channel to switch active utility spell same as dismissing and calling a pet)
    Cast-while-moving Cooldown (like Spirit Walker’s Grace)
    Deterrence (same)
    Rapid Fire (same)
    Pot Shots: (1.5m CD, increases damage by 20% for 20 seconds)
    Flash Bomb (AoE Blind, i.e. incapacitates)
    Moderate Self-Healing
    Sniper’s Nest (AoE Camouflage CD, temporary sanctuary for ranged allies)
    Tranquilizer Shot (sleep)
    Redirect (can redirect threat from anyone to anyone elses)
    Decoy
    Ranged Smoke Bomb

    Last edited by Grubjuice; 2014-01-17 at 08:27 PM.
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  2. #2
    i think its a fun idea they could be real but i doubt about the meele spec

  3. #3
    I would love for BM to be a melee spec. And survival made more about dots, traps.
    Now it feels like evey spec is the same. only Difference is what you spam, kill command , chimera shot or explosive shot. which for me feel the same

  4. #4
    High Overlord aceventura's Avatar
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    I dislike your BM concetpt, melee hunter just does not make any sense. SV as dot spec, yes both hands up. Marksman based on bleeds, why not. Make one spec entirely petless, hell no as it will make it useless in pvp and with equal overall damage superior in any pve encounter with target switches.

  5. #5
    The ideas seem ok, BUT: there are like 12 buttons for every spec. Goes kinda against the anounced reduction of button bloat.
    In my opinion there only need to be very few, but refined mechanics to make a spec work(think BW, LnL).
    What hunters need are things to pull up the secondaries. Might be something like things proccing of of crits, haste scaling for dots, maybe reworked/retuned masteries.

    but you seem to have worked out a few nice mechanics for each spec to distinguish itself, so nice work (;

  6. #6
    I don't know why people are QQ'ing about the BM part. I think the idea is great, and I've always wanted to fight side by side with my pet, like Rexxar does. Survival used to be a somewhat melee-oriented PvP spec. It would definately bring some new aspects to play hunters instead of the same old 3-specs turret with a un-interactive dps-bot as a pet.

    Would be comparable to the three Warlock specs we have now. Destruction (Marksman), long range shooter DPS, Affliction (Ranger) High utility and multi-dotting, Demonology (Beast Master) buffed pets, can be tanky (with glyph).

  7. #7
    That marksman is /drool.
    I play a hunter for the fact it's using a bow, I always played the archer class in any MMO I played.
    I wish they'd get rid of pets :X

  8. #8
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    You've obviously put a lot of thought into these ideas, and they're fairly coherent, from a game design perspective.

    I'll refrain from commenting further, though, because it's a pipe dream and I don't want to even contemplate what the class should be, only what it will be.

  9. #9
    Stood in the Fire Rife's Avatar
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    I'd love to see:
    MM be a largely petless spec, tight rotation, efficiency oriented.
    BM be a melee pet synergy spec.
    SV be a dot/proc spec much like it is now.

    Imagine how awesome it would be to be able to equip melee weapons and start swinging with your pet by your side.

    Some of your ideas are drool worthy. Ricochet sounds amazing.

    Unfortunately Blizz won't be remaking the whole class. They've said they want minor rotational changes rather than sweeping gameplay changes. With that in mind I'd like see a spec based largely around procs (SV), one based around synergy and short cd buffs/debuffs (bm) and one around efficency, tight rotations (MM).
    Last edited by Rife; 2014-01-19 at 08:17 AM.

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  10. #10
    High Overlord aceventura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rife View Post
    Imagine how awesome it would be to be able to equip melee weapons and start swinging with your pet by your side..
    sorry but not for all. don't want be enh shaman with permanent spiritwolf out.

  11. #11
    I don't understand why you want BM to play like a Rogue spec. There are already way too many Combo Point style specs between the ones you mentioned, WW Monk, and Feral Druid.

    I also cannot fathom why Hunters would want to go back to rolling against polearm users for melee weapons. That was a losing proposition for everyone and the current weapon distribution system works so much better in our favor.

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  12. #12
    Dreadlord Ironjaws-Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aceventura View Post
    I dislike your BM concetpt, melee hunter just does not make any sense. SV as dot spec, yes both hands up. Marksman based on bleeds, why not. Make one spec entirely petless, hell no as it will make it useless in pvp and with equal overall damage superior in any pve encounter with target switches.
    Well, I can easy see melee hunters; the oldest hunters used only spears before the bow was invented. And many still hunted certain animals with spears and such, like boars because of their heavy and sturdy bodies, where a large spearhead did more damage then a small arrow. So I could easy see hunters as melee, but well, that's just me.

    And for the petless, with the new talent, With or Without You, that will come to happen, and Blizz need to balance how that will work anyhow.


    Overall does they sound fun and surely different, maybe not exactly how I would make it, but fun read! :'D
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  13. #13
    Instead of melee BM maybe a dual-wield weapon (by dual wield I mean dual wield xbows or guns), which forces you in 20y range. Give Bonus if your in this Range with dual wield.
    Ranger Can use whatever wants no binus dmg, so one can specc this without getting new weapon.
    MM Bow or Rifle and has to be at 20y+ to get bonus-dmg.

    I would like to see this. just like a switch from furor to weapon as Warrior for example.
    Last edited by Pandemie; 2014-01-20 at 01:21 PM.

  14. #14
    Lol @ people who can't even imagine that it's possible to make through-pet utility work without the pet. Not even close to the achilles heal of petlessness.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by aceventura View Post
    I dislike your BM concetpt, melee hunter just does not make any sense. SV as dot spec, yes both hands up. Marksman based on bleeds, why not. Make one spec entirely petless, hell no as it will make it useless in pvp and with equal overall damage superior in any pve encounter with target switches.
    http://www.wowwiki.com/Beastmaster

    Doesn't make sense? lol I would kill for BM to become this.

  16. #16
    You got some real good ideas here but BM or any hunter melee spec sounds horrible to me. I don't want to go back to rolling against other classes for weapons. I already don't like the idea that current marksman depends so much on a good weapon. To be realistic the changes to hunters will not be this drastic but props on your marksman ideas and survival I think most people can agree that we would like it become a dot based spec.

    To me the 2 most crucial things hunters need are better scaling from secondary stats and a class raid cooldown.

  17. #17
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    This was a fun read. A BM spec based on Rexxar would be a blast and more of what I'd imagine a BM spec being.

  18. #18
    Honestly, this sounds pretty awesome. I think it would definitely improve the Hunter class to have some actual choices aside from "Which spammable" and "How large a % of my DPS do I want my pet to do?"

    The only thing I might offer up as suggestions is to really think about CDs and durations for some of the abilities. For instance, Tiger Strike for BM, shows that it would increase pet damage by 50%. How long and what's the CD of the ability? Because if there is virtually no CD and the duration is short, you risk that becoming necessary to be spammed to the point of getting GCD locked. If it is a longer duration, with no CD, you hardly use it. It is a short duration with a longish CD, that could work. Make it a little more similar to the situation of Tiger Fury for Feral. That could work.

    Also, check your resource costs on some of them. Some seem a little low for what they do, unless damage numbers are truly taken into account. For instance, Spider Bites, at 15 Focus, seems a bit low considering that as it spreads throughout the group, you could be multidotting it and have crazy high stacks across the entire group of adds, which would be doable for only 15 Focus at 120 max. Perhaps make that 30 focus for a little more balance.

    The other thing is that Spider Bites might need the chance to regen focus to be dependent on how many stacks/how many adds are targeted. Imagine the group of adds just before Nazgrim. It is a large group. With a 50% chance, assuming you simply spammed Spider Bites at the start, about half way through the group, you average more focus incoming than you could spend. Granted, this wouldn't happen all the time, or on boss fights, but it is possible.

    One other question: In Ricochet, you mention something about the current target of your Piercing Shot debuff, but, unless I am blind, I didn't see where that comes from. Not sure if you missed describing an ability or if you changed a name somewhere. Care to explain what the debuff is and where it comes from?

    Overall though, the general concept seems pretty awesome and I would love if they went more this route with Hunters.

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