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  1. #861
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Then why did people play Diablo II for so long? The single player version of the game was a faceroll, but people continued to multi-play it for years and years. How did the Civilization franchise last so long then? I mean, each version has various difficulty settings, and victory is practically assured on the lowest. You can even customize rules and enable cheat modes to skew the game in your favor. Yet, they're still putting out DLC content for Civ V.
    About 50k people play Civ per Steam. I am sure the number is even less for Diablo 2.

    http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

  2. #862
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharuko View Post
    About 50k people play Civ per Steam. I am sure the number is even less for Diablo 2.

    http://store.steampowered.com/stats/
    Add on that WoW is a theme park game with various activities or content to say to suit different people. Those who play games like DII and Civ are liking it for that one type of content. It would be as if WoW was only raiding or solo questing. The idea that some people think just because they only like one aspect of the game that the whole game should cater to it is fairly self centered and yet that is what got us into the issue of the game being too soloists centered. For those that like the various activities good for you and I see no reason to hate someone who gets more out of such a game than I that suits such a wide variety of players. WoW is sold as an all in one package and make what you will with it.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2014-01-24 at 10:58 PM.

  3. #863
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    My server has them too. They require item level 530+.

    Tell me, where oh where do you get a full set of gear that gets you to ilevel 530 if we can't get into the social guilds that require that ilevel to do flex? Cause I know of a place, but you seem to think you don't need it.

    I repeat: Doing LFR IS NOT OPTIONAL as of now.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Vanilla to BC, killing Nef was a lot easier too. Subs went up.

    BC to Wrath, killing Illidan was a lot easier. Subs went up.

    Wrath to Cata, killing Lich King was a lot easier. Subs went... Down? LFR is added towards the end, subs continue going down.

    Cata to Mop, killing Deathwing is a lot easier. LFR still a thing. Subs still going down.

    Your explanation doesn't make sense.
    I am gonna blow your mind with how you can get into a pug at sub 530. It is a trick that a lot of people used back in the old days of WoW that is really making a comeback due to flex, make your own. YOU pug flex. People complain about there is no community, there is no social aspect anymore and yet Flex is a great thing to add back this social aspect and here you are refusing to use it by not making your own.

    Going by your logic of subs I can do this
    Vanilla to BC-Stormwind park was there and subs went up

    BC to WOTLK-Stormwind park was still there and subs went up

    WOTLK-Cata-Stormwind park was still there and subs went up

    Cata-MoP-Stormwind park destroyed and subs went down.

    MoP-WoD-Stormwind park still not fixed and subs still go down.

    See how I can make it look like Stormwind park is the reason why subs went down?

  4. #864
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    But this ignores what end game is. You can't beat a game and have it be both difficult and easy at the same time. Or else beating it becomes meaningless. That's what they're trying to do.
    Why then do most games have multiple difficulty settings? Easier difficulty=more accessibility. More accessibility=wider potential audience. Wider potential audience=more revenue for the developer. More revenue for the developer=higher amounts of content and/or support for the game.

    The logic behind it is not overly complex. I am not sure why you are not seeing that.
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    If your guild demands you slip into an elephants butt and force yourself out in a regurgation then you can't blame Blizzard for supplying the elephant.

  5. #865
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharuko View Post
    About 50k people play Civ per Steam. I am sure the number is even less for Diablo 2.

    http://store.steampowered.com/stats/
    Play now. The game came out 4 years ago. According to http://www.vgchartz.com/game/43507/s...tion-v/Global/ they have almost 1.4 million units sold as of the end of 2013. In 2010, 10 years after its initial release, Diablo II was still in the top 10 PC games for 2010, according to http://www.vg247.com/2010/08/05/acti...t-967-million/
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  6. #866
    Quote Originally Posted by nekobaka View Post
    Add on that WoW is a theme park game with various activities or content to say to suit different people. Those who play games like DII and Civ are liking it for that one type of content. It would be as if WoW was only raiding or solo questing. The idea that some people think just because they only like one aspect of the game that the whole game should cater to it is fairly self centered and yet that is what got us into the issue of the game being too soloists centered.
    But that is exactly what those calling for the content to be more difficult are asking for. Content that fits their playstyle to the exclusion of others. The idea that content locked behind a higher level of difficulty would lead to more motivation to improve is flawed because not everyone would be so motivated, nor is having the skill necessary to complete the more difficult content always the hindering factor.

    The only other viable solution would be to separate the story portions of the game from raiding completely, as well as providing equivalent means of character advancement to those which raiding currently provides through means which do not involve raiding. Raids would simply exist to accommodate the playstyle of raiding. Otherwise the detrimental effects over time would outweigh the benefits of continuing to develop raid level content.
    Last edited by Gurbz; 2014-01-24 at 11:08 PM.
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    If your guild demands you slip into an elephants butt and force yourself out in a regurgation then you can't blame Blizzard for supplying the elephant.

  7. #867
    Quote Originally Posted by nekobaka View Post
    Add on that WoW is a theme park game with various activities or content to say to suit different people. Those who play games like DII and Civ are liking it for that one type of content. It would be as if WoW was only raiding or solo questing. The idea that some people think just because they only like one aspect of the game that the whole game should cater to it is fairly self centered and yet that is what got us into the issue of the game being too soloists centered. For those that like the various activities good for you and I see no reason to hate someone who gets more out of such a game than I that suits such a wide variety of players. WoW is sold as an all in one package and make what you will with it.
    That's kind of beside the point. DII and Civ were brought up as counterexamples to the idea that once players "win" a game they have no incentive to play it again or even try it on a higher difficulty. I was only saying that if that was the case games like that would never have sold, let alone spawned sequels.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  8. #868
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Play now. The game came out 4 years ago. According to http://www.vgchartz.com/game/43507/s...tion-v/Global/ they have almost 1.4 million units sold as of the end of 2013. In 2010, 10 years after its initial release, Diablo II was still in the top 10 PC games for 2010, according to http://www.vg247.com/2010/08/05/acti...t-967-million/
    I know what the sales are, but the point is people are not playing right now. There wasn't much incentive to keep playing for longer periods of time. WoW came out close to 10 years ago. Not sure you brought those games up in the first place though, its a apples to oranges comparison.

  9. #869
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    Why then do most games have multiple difficulty settings? Easier difficulty=more accessibility. More accessibility=wider potential audience. Wider potential audience=more revenue for the developer. More revenue for the developer=higher amounts of content and/or support for the game.

    The logic behind it is not overly complex. I am not sure why you are not seeing that.
    Because WoW isn't most games. And most games don't make you play it on derp mode first.

  10. #870
    The Patient Injinjpow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowpunkz View Post
    I don't care! Are you telling me a player that does NOTHING can complete 99% of content in this game? And there are still no World social interaction? Did Blizzard said anything to counter this in the future? Im not that well informed about things atm....
    I wasn't aware that LFR was 99% of the game. Gotta love the narrow minded exaggerations.

    If the game is too easy for you try Heroic raids. Pretty sure only 1-2% of all of wow has cleared ALL of the content

    LFR is at most 10-30% of the game.
    Last edited by Injinjpow; 2014-01-24 at 11:16 PM.

  11. #871
    LFR is one of the best things ever added to the game. Yes 100% of players can see all the content in some form and that's how it should be.

    As far as other games go, I ALWAYS play them on the lowest difficulty setting the first time through. If I decide to replay them, which is rare, I may bump it up a notch. If things are too difficult, most people will either give up or find a way to make it easier.

    LFR IS OPTIONAL.
    Last edited by Dch48; 2014-01-24 at 11:20 PM.

  12. #872
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Because WoW isn't most games. And most games don't make you play it on derp mode first.
    It is still a game. Further, it is one that requires players to pay in an ongoing basis in order to continue player. The dynamics that make having multiple difficulties make sense in other games are just as relevant to WoW, if not moreso because of the subscription revenue that keeps it running.

    Also, most games with multiple difficulties will at least make you complete one playthough before unlocking the hardest difficulty. Though if your contention is that Heroic raids should be available without having to first complete Normal, I will wholeheartedly agree with you.
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    If your guild demands you slip into an elephants butt and force yourself out in a regurgation then you can't blame Blizzard for supplying the elephant.

  13. #873
    Stood in the Fire intrinsc's Avatar
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    OP mission accomplished. Achievement Unlocked: Trolled all of MMO-C.

  14. #874
    Stood in the Fire Cylom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dch48 View Post
    LFR is one of the best things ever added to the game. Yes 100% of players can see all the content in some form and that's how it should be.

    No, unless they put enough effort to see it, I don't think they should see 100% of the content.
    As far as other games go, I ALWAYS play them on the lowest difficulty setting the first time through. If I decide to replay them, which is rare, I may bump it up a notch. If things are too difficult, most people will either give up or find a way to make it easier.
    Me and my friends have a general rule between us, is no matter how hard the game is, we always start it on normal difficulty or more, I was playing DMC3 the other day and got my ass handed to me by Cerberus and got offered to play Easy mode instead, I felt humiliated that I got offered to play on easier difficulty, and kept on normal until I knew how to kill him with nearly full HP, and now I got better instead of going to easy mode and clearing it while being blindfolded.
    LFR IS OPTIONAL.
    Not if I'm required to do it after timeless to gear my alts and doing it every week for 3-5 months for the legendary cape, for every alt I have.

    What can I say, I love Female Gnomes.
    Quote Originally Posted by ShimmerSwirl View Post
    People don't come back because the game is homogenized with no meaningful progression. Everyone is a winner, all your actions are irrelevant.

  15. #875
    Stood in the Fire Hardkorr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowpunkz View Post
    Can anyone help me? After I saw this video it got me worried....because I was thinking of coming back in Draenor...but if things will be like this I really don't know anymore.

    VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFWh9aY4pas

    min 3:35 (may the trolling begin)

    Are things this bad? Can ANY player no matter how bad they are be able to do 100% of the content (Heroic modes not included).

    I don't play the game for a long time because how things were in Pandaria. Easy accessibility and easy content for everyone removed my will for progression and willpower to continue playing. That and a community that was getting more antisocial by the second with Instanced content being the top priority at the moment. No more Socializing in the open World ( the Isle of Thunder made hoping for more content with pvp encounters and social gameplay in the world....)

    Can someone plz get my hopes up for Draenor? :C

    Mod-note: Fixed your link.
    When I saw the vid, I first thought of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RULv6HbgEjY

    But in all seriousness, ya that is the state of WoW today. This can be understood as truth if you look at the concentration of players in vanilla WoW and the concentration of players in current WoW & the last two expansions. In vanilla, leveling was longer/harder, the world was smaller, and players were just as bad as they are now. However, there were players at all levels in all areas all the time and there was always something to progress on that was only limited by how much time you put into the game. Now, however, Blizz has made damn sure that the end game is the only game, and most players are left to stagnate at level 90 in the capital or get towards progressing on what is ostensibly the same content over and over again. Therefore, the large degree of suck in the player base is becoming more and more glaringly evident because we are all stuck with each other as well as pissing off players with the lack of progressing on anything other than ilvls.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cylom View Post
    No, unless they put enough effort to see it, I don't think they should see 100% of the content.
    That, I'm afraid, was how Blizz thought back in the day (grinds. grinds everywhere). Nowadays, the game is launching itself into a game philosophy that allows people to just log in, get their fix, and log out. This is Blizz's way of artifically extending the longevity of a game and thus trying to make more profit with not a whole lotta content. In vanilla, someone with no life could have everything in a relatively decent amount of time. Now, with gated content like dailies, weeklies, and more focus on ilvl than actual character level, even the most hardcore of players would have to play much longer than they would if these systems were not in place.

    Gated content can work wonderfully when a developer wants to make long term money, but it only works well if there is a paying alternative (like every zynga game or f2p mmo out there) and sadly, Blizz is starting to learn this too...
    Quote Originally Posted by Suffer the Consequences View Post
    Gender is irrelevant. Everyone has a penis in video games, and it is measured purely on skill. Mionelol's cock is massive.

  16. #876
    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    Because WoW isn't most games. And most games don't make you play it on derp mode first.
    So it is impossible to raid in Flex Mode SoO if you have normal ToT gear? I don't know how WoW makes any player play LFR first. Late to the game, do timless isle and get gear and burdens. I have seen more than enough posts on MMO champion by posters that they don't even touch LFR. Also with flex mode raiding, more people don't even touch it anymore due to long queues, toxic players, etc. For your statement to be true, in order to raid normal, players have to finish LFR. Sorry but normal mode has never been gated when LFR was introduced. A better argument would be if LFR didn't make you feel you need to do it for upgrades that you're still missing due to bad RNG and even then that is still a choice.
    Last edited by Theendgamelv3; 2014-01-25 at 05:43 AM.

  17. #877
    Quote Originally Posted by Cylom View Post
    No, unless they put enough effort to see it, I don't think they should see 100% of the content.
    Nobody who matters agrees with you anymore.

  18. #878
    Quote Originally Posted by Theendgamelv3 View Post
    So it is impossible to raid in Flex Mode SoO if you have normal ToT gear?
    I mean really you don't even need to do SoO flex with ToT normal gear you can go straight from one normal to the other.

  19. #879
    Quote Originally Posted by Ineko View Post
    Did you even watch the video? To the new player that has no idea what they're doing as far as they're concerned they've finished the entire game, they've done as much in the game as the best of the best have, they've seen the same bosses and their gear looks pretty much identical.

    And the video isn't supposed 'doom and gloom' just pointing out the game has zero incentive to make any new players want to improve.
    I play Wow, because it's fun. That's my "incentive." Mike Preach appears to believe that fun equals hard, yet this isn't true for everyone.

    Plus, while it's possible to afk and be carried through end game content, most players don't exploit Wow like Preach does in his video.

    At least in this video, Mike demonstrates something, instead of saying the same thing over and over for 20 minutes like he did in his "The Problem in the Mists (of Pandaria)" video.

  20. #880
    Quote Originally Posted by Alayen View Post
    Nobody who matters agrees with you anymore.
    It seems that they do, because playing LFR does not give you the whole experience. You miss out on key mechanics that makes the fights fun. Sometimes you even miss out on extra bosses (not sure if there's been such a boss since Sinestra, but they should do more encounters like that).

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