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  1. #881
    First of all games have had "new game +" for decades now. So your argument that people don't want to do harder difficulties for similar rewards is utter horseshit.

    Then you change your attitude saying ok LFR is fine, but the gear should look like crap and hardcore gear should look awesome. Blizzard specifically made LFR because they don't want to make for the 1% only. Even a brain dead 4 y/o would have the sense to realize that includes art assets. Tuned numbers, adding specific titles, a few extra stats on gear, or different color gear and an extra mechanic here and there is all you'll get in higher difficulty. If that's not enough for you and the comradership that comes along with downing bosses with your guild, then it's real simple. GTFO!
    Last edited by beanman12345; 2014-01-25 at 10:35 AM.

  2. #882
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    First of all games have had "new game +" for decades now. So your argument that people don't want to do harder difficulties for similar rewards is utter horseshit.

    Then you change your attitude saying ok LFR is fine, but the gear should look like crap and hardcore gear should look awesome. Blizzard specifically made LFR because they don't want to make for the 1% only. Even a brain dead 4 y/o would have the sense to realize that includes art assets. Tuned numbers, adding specific titles, a few extra stats on gear, or different color gear and an extra mechanic here and there is all you'll get in higher difficulty. If that's not enough for you and the comradership that comes along with downing bosses with your guild, then it's real simple. GTFO!
    Meanwhile the actual core raiders of the world are just like the more casuals the merrier. Because guess what? Casuals dont see raid content then raid content stops happening eventually.

  3. #883
    Herald of the Titans miffy23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Refridge View Post
    The guy who made the referenced video isnt very bright. WoW players comprise a society, and there are plenty of morons I encounter, in the real world who I could choose to berate, for being morons, people who don't understand the basics of walking on sidewalks, for example. I could correct them, but I decide it's not worth my time. It's the same thing in LFR. Anyone who's doing LFR needs something from it. Be it gear, or to practice a new class/spec, or even basic enjoyment. As long as you enter into an LFR, knowing that there are levels of PVE content above that, then you know you're not guaranteed to be playing with top tier players/toons. So yes, you can queue up for an LFR, get a BASIC understanding of the fight, and gear, that is bad, relative to the total of available PVE content.

    Is WoW really like this? I don't want a player like you to be part of the community, if that's your attitude. I'll refrain from encouraging you to come back for WoD. There are BG's and then there are Rated BG's. There are duels outside of Org/SW and then there are arenas. There are different levels of play, some introductory, some not, for all different levels of players. If you're incapable of coming to terms with Blizzard's desire to make a game that more than one demographic of gamers can enjoy, and yes, make money, then by all means, don't come back to WoW.
    You fail to realize though that for example duels don't deter people to do arena, they motivate them to - the same thing only better, with actual cool rewards? Awsome! Same thing with BGs - there is a significant step up from "common" BGs to rated BGs in terms of motivation. However as a new player, the motivation and path from LFR to Heroic is much less clear or enticing. Which is why there are so few, if any, heroic raiders that began in MoP. And that is the issue, not LFR itself.

  4. #884
    Mechagnome Santoryu's Avatar
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    Also I would love your rationale between the difference in hard modes to now....I did Hardmode ulduar and I do heroics now....Ulduar was far less complex than any hard mode now. Ulduar hard modes were simply nothing in comparison to what is added now. So please with all your vast experience between the 2 heroic modes explain how ulduar was soooo much different. Because I can promise you that your words are baseless.
    Fine, I'll explain.

    First of all, Ulduar's hard modes were non-binary, in contrast to the simple on and off toggle we have now. The advantage of this system was that you could do the hard mode from the very beginning if you so wanted.

    Secondly, you had 2 difficulty modes, 10 and 25 man and within each of these 2 difficulty settings you had bosses that had up to 5 different modes, depending on your choice as a guild - no one forced you to do the entire dungeon in hard mode, you could pick out what you wanted. Choice is great.

    Third. The changes your choices brought to the fights such as the Flame Leviathan, Freya, Mimiron, Iron Council or Yogg-Saron had a massive impact on the dynamic of the fight: many more additional abilities and adds for FL, a lot more complex structure to Freya, a complete contrast in mechanics in Mimiron's room, a huge jump up in demand for Iron Council and of course, a severe limit placed on your raid's survivability and capability to get rid of adds in Yogg Saron, depending on which keepers you decided to take or not take.

    Fourth. The loot changes you got by defeating the hard mode was not just the same item with slightly better stats, you opened up an entirely new loot table, which was exciting. And of course you could unlock the final boss of Ulduar, which was Algalon, by killing Steelbreaker last. And last but not least, Alone in the Darkness guaranteed an awesome mount to drop, so your efforts were rewarded in any event.

    What hard modes are now compared to what we had back then is disappointing.

  5. #885
    Herald of the Titans miffy23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santoryu View Post
    Fine, I'll explain.

    First of all, Ulduar's hard modes were non-binary, in contrast to the simple on and off toggle we have now. The advantage of this system was that you could do the hard mode from the very beginning if you so wanted.

    Secondly, you had 2 difficulty modes, 10 and 25 man and within each of these 2 difficulty settings you had bosses that had up to 5 different modes, depending on your choice as a guild - no one forced you to do the entire dungeon in hard mode, you could pick out what you wanted. Choice is great.

    Third. The changes your choices brought to the fights such as the Flame Leviathan, Freya, Mimiron, Iron Council or Yogg-Saron had a massive impact on the dynamic of the fight: many more additional abilities and adds for FL, a lot more complex structure to Freya, a complete contrast in mechanics in Mimiron's room, a huge jump up in demand for Iron Council and of course, a severe limit placed on your raid's survivability and capability to get rid of adds in Yogg Saron, depending on which keepers you decided to take or not take.

    Fourth. The loot changes you got by defeating the hard mode was not just the same item with slightly better stats, you opened up an entirely new loot table, which was exciting. And of course you could unlock the final boss of Ulduar, which was Algalon, by killing Steelbreaker last. And last but not least, Alone in the Darkness guaranteed an awesome mount to drop, so your efforts were rewarded in any event.

    What hard modes are now compared to what we had back then is disappointing.
    I'm sorry but you've clearly not done heroic since then. Ulduar hard modes are a joke compared to the more recent heroic raiding tiers in difficulty and changes to normal.

  6. #886
    Mechagnome Santoryu's Avatar
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    I'm sorry but you've clearly not done heroic since then. Ulduar hard modes are a joke compared to the more recent heroic raiding tiers in difficulty and changes to normal.
    No I haven't, for 2 reasons: 1. I can't be bothered running yet another iteration of the same dungeon after LFR, Flex and Normal. 2. The stuff gets nerfed anyway and all the titles/mounts are still available in the next expansion so there's really no point.

  7. #887
    Herald of the Titans miffy23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santoryu View Post
    No I haven't, for 2 reasons: 1. I can't be bothered running yet another iteration of the same dungeon after LFR, Flex and Normal. 2. The stuff gets nerfed anyway and all the titles/mounts are still available in the next expansion so there's really no point.
    Then don't make statement based on the current difficulty and differences to lower raiding tiers if you don't have any empirical knowledge at all.

  8. #888
    This game was once a symbol of respect and considered the ultimate challenge/ social experience and the best design in the gaming industry...and now this is the wow we have?
    Thanks for the laugh. So one thing is sure, you know nothing about the games intent at the time of creation and are just looking through your pink tinted goggles. The game was ment to be accessible from the start and got ridiculed for it by the other MMO's at the time and they just followed on with that line of thinking and kept the game accessible for everyone. LFR is nothing, it's intent is to be there for people who don't want to invest the time but still want to see the flow of the story and personally i think that's a good thing. Encounter wise it's got nothing to do with real raiding and with flex, normal, heroic everyone can find their own spot of difficulty if they want to experience the real raid.
    So you get angry because everyone gets to see the raid and you are not a special snowflake anymore? well BUHU. If your ego gets a dent because of the way OTHER people see the content then it's time to get over yourself. If you say that you won't do the content anymore cause you have seen it in LFR then a) you haven't seen it cause LFR is missing a lot of the mechanics and b) you are raiding for your digital penis to be bigger than others instead of raiding because it's a challange and fun thing to do with friends (which in hero and normal it is).

  9. #889
    Stood in the Fire Hardkorr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adorich View Post
    I play Wow, because it's fun. That's my "incentive." Mike Preach appears to believe that fun equals hard, yet this isn't true for everyone.

    But for the most part, hard equals fun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toVNkuCELpU


    Quote Originally Posted by Santoryu View Post
    Fine, I'll explain.

    First of all, Ulduar's hard modes were non-binary, in contrast to the simple on and off toggle we have now. The advantage of this system was that you could do the hard mode from the very beginning if you so wanted.

    Secondly, you had 2 difficulty modes, 10 and 25 man and within each of these 2 difficulty settings you had bosses that had up to 5 different modes, depending on your choice as a guild - no one forced you to do the entire dungeon in hard mode, you could pick out what you wanted. Choice is great.

    Third. The changes your choices brought to the fights such as the Flame Leviathan, Freya, Mimiron, Iron Council or Yogg-Saron had a massive impact on the dynamic of the fight: many more additional abilities and adds for FL, a lot more complex structure to Freya, a complete contrast in mechanics in Mimiron's room, a huge jump up in demand for Iron Council and of course, a severe limit placed on your raid's survivability and capability to get rid of adds in Yogg Saron, depending on which keepers you decided to take or not take.

    Fourth. The loot changes you got by defeating the hard mode was not just the same item with slightly better stats, you opened up an entirely new loot table, which was exciting. And of course you could unlock the final boss of Ulduar, which was Algalon, by killing Steelbreaker last. And last but not least, Alone in the Darkness guaranteed an awesome mount to drop, so your efforts were rewarded in any event.

    What hard modes are now compared to what we had back then is disappointing.

    Don't forget that Freya, Yogg, and council had degrees if difficulty that was pretty clear cut for players. At the top of my head, I can only recall the bug trio also having degrees if difficulty that you could do by choosing which one to kill first.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suffer the Consequences View Post
    Gender is irrelevant. Everyone has a penis in video games, and it is measured purely on skill. Mionelol's cock is massive.

  10. #890
    Quote Originally Posted by b4dcrc View Post
    Thanks for the laugh. So one thing is sure, you know nothing about the games intent at the time of creation and are just looking through your pink tinted goggles. The game was ment to be accessible from the start and got ridiculed for it by the other MMO's at the time and they just followed on with that line of thinking and kept the game accessible for everyone. LFR is nothing, it's intent is to be there for people who don't want to invest the time but still want to see the flow of the story and personally i think that's a good thing. Encounter wise it's got nothing to do with real raiding and with flex, normal, heroic everyone can find their own spot of difficulty if they want to experience the real raid.
    So you get angry because everyone gets to see the raid and you are not a special snowflake anymore? well BUHU. If your ego gets a dent because of the way OTHER people see the content then it's time to get over yourself. If you say that you won't do the content anymore cause you have seen it in LFR then a) you haven't seen it cause LFR is missing a lot of the mechanics and b) you are raiding for your digital penis to be bigger than others instead of raiding because it's a challange and fun thing to do with friends (which in hero and normal it is).
    Actually he was right. WoW was agame with integrity up until some point in Wrath. Then it became just another game. People like to say how it has always been casual and accessible, but if you say that then your purposely being deceitful because casual/accessible now are MILES different than then.

  11. #891
    Mechagnome Santoryu's Avatar
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    People like to say how it has always been casual and accessible, but if you say that then your purposely being deceitful because casual/accessible now are MILES different than then.
    Actual casual players are great for any game, whereas entitled casual bad players are a cancer for any game, especially if they're catered to.

  12. #892
    Imo, WoW, like any other Blizz game was/is supposed to be accessible for big crowds. But the problem is how far this accessibility can go and if it can compromise the quality of the game in some way.

    Personally, I think wow is still a great game, because while they may have made some wrong decisions, they have improved other aspects. So overall, I think the balance is positive.

    That said, I miss a part of the RPG feeling in WoW, today a lot of players are like "just give me this", "just give me that"... I like the extra attention for casuals (I'm a casual), but they need to take care to not overdo this.

    Ofc, being too RPG heavy to the point that my char will need to pee and eat every 3-4hours won't be that fun (in WoW scope). But I feel that today some things in WoW are too "express", "fast and straight"... But who knows, maybe they bring some new good things in WoD..

  13. #893
    Quote Originally Posted by Santoryu View Post
    Actual casual players are great for any game, whereas entitled casual bad players are a cancer for any game, especially if they're catered to.
    And I'd say a person wanting to be able to afk through the final boss fight in the game is the epitome of entitled.

  14. #894
    Mechagnome Santoryu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    And I'd say a person wanting to be able to afk through the final boss fight in the game is the epitome of entitled.
    Yes, exactly.

  15. #895
    Quote Originally Posted by Santoryu View Post
    Actual casual players are great for any game, whereas entitled casual bad players are a cancer for any game, especially if they're catered to.
    Sucks even more when they are no-lifers that call themselves casual in order to get the mindless content they want while also complaining that there isnt enough to do despite spending 40+ hours in the game and then claim they dont have time to raid. Just think of how ego sensitive a player is that effectively lives in WoW and takes it serious enough when others who spend less time in the game and are more social get ahead of them.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2014-01-25 at 07:20 PM.

  16. #896
    Brewmaster Dutchmagoz's Avatar
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    Just focus on heroic while others do LFR. I don't see the issue. LFR is for people that can't stick to set hours/raidtimes, and heroic is for the people that can / are good enough to do so. Let people enjoy what they want. Just because someone else is enjoying something that doesn't require as much "effort" as you and still getting loot, doesn't diminish any rewards you get.

  17. #897
    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchmagoz View Post
    Just focus on heroic while others do LFR. I don't see the issue. LFR is for people that can't stick to set hours/raidtimes...
    MoP has shown this to be utterly bullshit given the time investment that players find themselves spending in LFR now which is longer than I spent progression raiding back in BC. PuG raiding has always been there for those who do not want to schedule or play with the same set of players every week. The difference was up until now players didnt have a cross realm option especially for the realms with too small of a raiding interested population. Players had been asking for such a system all the way back in WotLK.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2014-01-25 at 08:19 PM.

  18. #898
    It's been several years and multiple expansions since the introduction of LFR. It's safe to say it's here forever. You hardcores have fun shitting up your little fansite bitching about it. It's pretty clear that what you think doesn't matter.

  19. #899
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    The game just sucks... If blizzard didn't add all the stupid features that they did and made sure PvP/PvE had the highest priorities like they did throughout vanilla/THC, the game would still have a flourishing community. The only reason the game is turning down hill, is not because it's old, but because they changed the game drastically. They barely added shit to the game prior to wotlk, but as soon as wotlk hit shelves, blizzard was adding something new to the game every content patch. While LFD might have been cool on paper, blizzard didn't think how it would affect communities. As soon as LFD hit, all blacklist's went out the window and all those assholes were free to roam again. Prior to LFD, assholes were put in check due to black lists... someone would start a gruuls raid and as we're all about to enter, someone might point out that blah blah blah ninja'd or pulled a boss early etc... that person then gets kicked and replaced w/ someone who doesn't have a bad reputation. Pugs were doable on NORMAL DIFFICULTY prior to wotlk because not only did the average player have more skill, but players who wanted to try could do so w/o having to deal with noobs or assholes. WoW used to be amazing because it was not over done and any issues were easily fixed by the players.

    I could honestly make a 20 page rant about how I quit and how the game used to be amazing... and not a single reason would be due to nostalgia. I still play WoW to this day, but only on TBC private servers that allow me to relive the amazing moments.
    I see some assumptions based on nothing really, and some things that aren't true. Communities, there was never such a thing. Most dungeons and raids were done within guilds or by people that knew other people, it was never a community, it was just a close inner circle of people. LFD made the queues a lot shorter, no longer did you have to search for someone for several hours, and travel to the dungeon only to find out that someone's house was on fire. Yes, blacklisting isn't possible anymore but the convenience that LFD brought far outweighs looking for a group for several ours within your server.
    Pugs have always been doable given the right players, that has nothing to do with Wotlk or whatever happened then or after it.

    You're looking at the past through some rose colored goggles I think. I've been playing since Vanilla and I'd never wanna go back to that time. Yes, the game is easier, but it's also more accessible now to a wider audience. The positives outweigh the negatives imho.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Santoryu View Post
    No I haven't, for 2 reasons: 1. I can't be bothered running yet another iteration of the same dungeon after LFR, Flex and Normal. 2. The stuff gets nerfed anyway and all the titles/mounts are still available in the next expansion so there's really no point.
    You just made your point invalid.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jna View Post
    Imo, WoW, like any other Blizz game was/is supposed to be accessible for big crowds. But the problem is how far this accessibility can go and if it can compromise the quality of the game in some way.

    Personally, I think wow is still a great game, because while they may have made some wrong decisions, they have improved other aspects. So overall, I think the balance is positive.

    That said, I miss a part of the RPG feeling in WoW, today a lot of players are like "just give me this", "just give me that"... I like the extra attention for casuals (I'm a casual), but they need to take care to not overdo this.

    Ofc, being too RPG heavy to the point that my char will need to pee and eat every 3-4hours won't be that fun (in WoW scope). But I feel that today some things in WoW are too "express", "fast and straight"... But who knows, maybe they bring some new good things in WoD..
    I understand to an extent what you mean. Wow has become more accessible, perhaps to easy in some ways, but the difference between LFR and Normal modes is quite big. Not to mention heroics.
    Last edited by Raysz; 2014-01-26 at 12:10 AM.

  20. #900
    Quote Originally Posted by Alayen View Post
    It's been several years and multiple expansions since the introduction of LFR. It's safe to say it's here forever. You hardcores have fun shitting up your little fansite bitching about it. It's pretty clear that what you think doesn't matter.
    LFR started in Dragon Soul so it's really only like three raid tiers in.

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