Is WoW always going to be like this?

[Sharuko]

Play now. The game came out 4 years ago. According to http://www.vgchartz.com/game/43507/s...tion-v/Global/ they have almost 1.4 million units sold as of the end of 2013. In 2010, 10 years after its initial release, Diablo II was still in the top 10 PC games for 2010, according to http://www.vg247.com/2010/08/05/acti...t-967-million/

I know what the sales are, but the point is people are not playing right now. There wasn't much incentive to keep playing for longer periods of time. WoW came out close to 10 years ago. Not sure you brought those games up in the first place though, its a apples to oranges comparison.

[Dormie]

Why then do most games have multiple difficulty settings? Easier difficulty=more accessibility. More accessibility=wider potential audience. Wider potential audience=more revenue for the developer. More revenue for the developer=higher amounts of content and/or support for the game.

The logic behind it is not overly complex. I am not sure why you are not seeing that.

Because WoW isn't most games. And most games don't make you play it on derp mode first.

[Injinjpow]

I don't care! Are you telling me a player that does NOTHING can complete 99% of content in this game? And there are still no World social interaction? Did Blizzard said anything to counter this in the future? Im not that well informed about things atm....

I wasn't aware that LFR was 99% of the game. Gotta love the narrow minded exaggerations.

If the game is too easy for you try Heroic raids. Pretty sure only 1-2% of all of wow has cleared ALL of the content

LFR is at most 10-30% of the game.

[Dch48]

LFR is one of the best things ever added to the game. Yes 100% of players can see all the content in some form and that's how it should be.

As far as other games go, I ALWAYS play them on the lowest difficulty setting the first time through. If I decide to replay them, which is rare, I may bump it up a notch. If things are too difficult, most people will either give up or find a way to make it easier.

LFR IS OPTIONAL.

[Gurbz]

Because WoW isn't most games. And most games don't make you play it on derp mode first.

It is still a game. Further, it is one that requires players to pay in an ongoing basis in order to continue player. The dynamics that make having multiple difficulties make sense in other games are just as relevant to WoW, if not moreso because of the subscription revenue that keeps it running.

Also, most games with multiple difficulties will at least make you complete one playthough before unlocking the hardest difficulty. Though if your contention is that Heroic raids should be available without having to first complete Normal, I will wholeheartedly agree with you.

[intrinsc]

OP mission accomplished. Achievement Unlocked: Trolled all of MMO-C.

[Deleted]

LFR is one of the best things ever added to the game. Yes 100% of players can see all the content in some form and that's how it should be.

No, unless they put enough effort to see it, I don't think they should see 100% of the content.

As far as other games go, I ALWAYS play them on the lowest difficulty setting the first time through. If I decide to replay them, which is rare, I may bump it up a notch. If things are too difficult, most people will either give up or find a way to make it easier.

Me and my friends have a general rule between us, is no matter how hard the game is, we always start it on normal difficulty or more, I was playing DMC3 the other day and got my ass handed to me by Cerberus and got offered to play Easy mode instead, I felt humiliated that I got offered to play on easier difficulty, and kept on normal until I knew how to kill him with nearly full HP, and now I got better instead of going to easy mode and clearing it while being blindfolded.

LFR IS OPTIONAL.

Not if I'm required to do it after timeless to gear my alts and doing it every week for 3-5 months for the legendary cape, for every alt I have.

[Hardkorr]

Can anyone help me? After I saw this video it got me worried....because I was thinking of coming back in Draenor...but if things will be like this I really don't know anymore.

VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFWh9aY4pas

min 3:35 (may the trolling begin)

Are things this bad? Can ANY player no matter how bad they are be able to do 100% of the content (Heroic modes not included).

I don't play the game for a long time because how things were in Pandaria. Easy accessibility and easy content for everyone removed my will for progression and willpower to continue playing. That and a community that was getting more antisocial by the second with Instanced content being the top priority at the moment. No more Socializing in the open World ( the Isle of Thunder made hoping for more content with pvp encounters and social gameplay in the world....)

Can someone plz get my hopes up for Draenor? :C

Mod-note: Fixed your link.

When I saw the vid, I first thought of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RULv6HbgEjY

But in all seriousness, ya that is the state of WoW today. This can be understood as truth if you look at the concentration of players in vanilla WoW and the concentration of players in current WoW & the last two expansions. In vanilla, leveling was longer/harder, the world was smaller, and players were just as bad as they are now. However, there were players at all levels in all areas all the time and there was always something to progress on that was only limited by how much time you put into the game. Now, however, Blizz has made damn sure that the end game is the only game, and most players are left to stagnate at level 90 in the capital or get towards progressing on what is ostensibly the same content over and over again. Therefore, the large degree of suck in the player base is becoming more and more glaringly evident because we are all stuck with each other as well as pissing off players with the lack of progressing on anything other than ilvls.

No, unless they put enough effort to see it, I don't think they should see 100% of the content.

That, I'm afraid, was how Blizz thought back in the day (grinds. grinds everywhere). Nowadays, the game is launching itself into a game philosophy that allows people to just log in, get their fix, and log out. This is Blizz's way of artifically extending the longevity of a game and thus trying to make more profit with not a whole lotta content. In vanilla, someone with no life could have everything in a relatively decent amount of time. Now, with gated content like dailies, weeklies, and more focus on ilvl than actual character level, even the most hardcore of players would have to play much longer than they would if these systems were not in place.

Gated content can work wonderfully when a developer wants to make long term money, but it only works well if there is a paying alternative (like every zynga game or f2p mmo out there) and sadly, Blizz is starting to learn this too...

[Theendgamelv3]

Because WoW isn't most games. And most games don't make you play it on derp mode first.

So it is impossible to raid in Flex Mode SoO if you have normal ToT gear? I don't know how WoW makes any player play LFR first. Late to the game, do timless isle and get gear and burdens. I have seen more than enough posts on MMO champion by posters that they don't even touch LFR. Also with flex mode raiding, more people don't even touch it anymore due to long queues, toxic players, etc. For your statement to be true, in order to raid normal, players have to finish LFR. Sorry but normal mode has never been gated when LFR was introduced. A better argument would be if LFR didn't make you feel you need to do it for upgrades that you're still missing due to bad RNG and even then that is still a choice.

[Alayen]

No, unless they put enough effort to see it, I don't think they should see 100% of the content.

Nobody who matters agrees with you anymore.

[adorich]

Did you even watch the video? To the new player that has no idea what they're doing as far as they're concerned they've finished the entire game, they've done as much in the game as the best of the best have, they've seen the same bosses and their gear looks pretty much identical.

And the video isn't supposed 'doom and gloom' just pointing out the game has zero incentive to make any new players want to improve.

I play Wow, because it's fun. That's my "incentive." Mike Preach appears to believe that fun equals hard, yet this isn't true for everyone.

Plus, while it's possible to afk and be carried through end game content, most players don't exploit Wow like Preach does in his video.

At least in this video, Mike demonstrates something, instead of saying the same thing over and over for 20 minutes like he did in his "The Problem in the Mists (of Pandaria)" video.

[Deleted]

Nobody who matters agrees with you anymore.

It seems that they do, because playing LFR does not give you the whole experience. You miss out on key mechanics that makes the fights fun. Sometimes you even miss out on extra bosses (not sure if there's been such a boss since Sinestra, but they should do more encounters like that).

[beanman12345]

First of all games have had "new game +" for decades now. So your argument that people don't want to do harder difficulties for similar rewards is utter horseshit.

Then you change your attitude saying ok LFR is fine, but the gear should look like crap and hardcore gear should look awesome. Blizzard specifically made LFR because they don't want to make for the 1% only. Even a brain dead 4 y/o would have the sense to realize that includes art assets. Tuned numbers, adding specific titles, a few extra stats on gear, or different color gear and an extra mechanic here and there is all you'll get in higher difficulty. If that's not enough for you and the comradership that comes along with downing bosses with your guild, then it's real simple. GTFO!

[miffy23]

The guy who made the referenced video isnt very bright. WoW players comprise a society, and there are plenty of morons I encounter, in the real world who I could choose to berate, for being morons, people who don't understand the basics of walking on sidewalks, for example. I could correct them, but I decide it's not worth my time. It's the same thing in LFR. Anyone who's doing LFR needs something from it. Be it gear, or to practice a new class/spec, or even basic enjoyment. As long as you enter into an LFR, knowing that there are levels of PVE content above that, then you know you're not guaranteed to be playing with top tier players/toons. So yes, you can queue up for an LFR, get a BASIC understanding of the fight, and gear, that is bad, relative to the total of available PVE content.

Is WoW really like this? I don't want a player like you to be part of the community, if that's your attitude. I'll refrain from encouraging you to come back for WoD. There are BG's and then there are Rated BG's. There are duels outside of Org/SW and then there are arenas. There are different levels of play, some introductory, some not, for all different levels of players. If you're incapable of coming to terms with Blizzard's desire to make a game that more than one demographic of gamers can enjoy, and yes, make money, then by all means, don't come back to WoW.

You fail to realize though that for example duels don't deter people to do arena, they motivate them to - the same thing only better, with actual cool rewards? Awsome! Same thing with BGs - there is a significant step up from "common" BGs to rated BGs in terms of motivation. However as a new player, the motivation and path from LFR to Heroic is much less clear or enticing. Which is why there are so few, if any, heroic raiders that began in MoP. And that is the issue, not LFR itself.

[Santoryu]

Also I would love your rationale between the difference in hard modes to now....I did Hardmode ulduar and I do heroics now....Ulduar was far less complex than any hard mode now. Ulduar hard modes were simply nothing in comparison to what is added now. So please with all your vast experience between the 2 heroic modes explain how ulduar was soooo much different. Because I can promise you that your words are baseless.

Fine, I'll explain.

First of all, Ulduar's hard modes were non-binary, in contrast to the simple on and off toggle we have now. The advantage of this system was that you could do the hard mode from the very beginning if you so wanted.

Secondly, you had 2 difficulty modes, 10 and 25 man and within each of these 2 difficulty settings you had bosses that had up to 5 different modes, depending on your choice as a guild - no one forced you to do the entire dungeon in hard mode, you could pick out what you wanted. Choice is great.

Third. The changes your choices brought to the fights such as the Flame Leviathan, Freya, Mimiron, Iron Council or Yogg-Saron had a massive impact on the dynamic of the fight: many more additional abilities and adds for FL, a lot more complex structure to Freya, a complete contrast in mechanics in Mimiron's room, a huge jump up in demand for Iron Council and of course, a severe limit placed on your raid's survivability and capability to get rid of adds in Yogg Saron, depending on which keepers you decided to take or not take.

Fourth. The loot changes you got by defeating the hard mode was not just the same item with slightly better stats, you opened up an entirely new loot table, which was exciting. And of course you could unlock the final boss of Ulduar, which was Algalon, by killing Steelbreaker last. And last but not least, Alone in the Darkness guaranteed an awesome mount to drop, so your efforts were rewarded in any event.

What hard modes are now compared to what we had back then is disappointing.

[miffy23]

Fine, I'll explain.

First of all, Ulduar's hard modes were non-binary, in contrast to the simple on and off toggle we have now. The advantage of this system was that you could do the hard mode from the very beginning if you so wanted.

Secondly, you had 2 difficulty modes, 10 and 25 man and within each of these 2 difficulty settings you had bosses that had up to 5 different modes, depending on your choice as a guild - no one forced you to do the entire dungeon in hard mode, you could pick out what you wanted. Choice is great.

Third. The changes your choices brought to the fights such as the Flame Leviathan, Freya, Mimiron, Iron Council or Yogg-Saron had a massive impact on the dynamic of the fight: many more additional abilities and adds for FL, a lot more complex structure to Freya, a complete contrast in mechanics in Mimiron's room, a huge jump up in demand for Iron Council and of course, a severe limit placed on your raid's survivability and capability to get rid of adds in Yogg Saron, depending on which keepers you decided to take or not take.

Fourth. The loot changes you got by defeating the hard mode was not just the same item with slightly better stats, you opened up an entirely new loot table, which was exciting. And of course you could unlock the final boss of Ulduar, which was Algalon, by killing Steelbreaker last. And last but not least, Alone in the Darkness guaranteed an awesome mount to drop, so your efforts were rewarded in any event.

What hard modes are now compared to what we had back then is disappointing.

I'm sorry but you've clearly not done heroic since then. Ulduar hard modes are a joke compared to the more recent heroic raiding tiers in difficulty and changes to normal.

[Santoryu]

I'm sorry but you've clearly not done heroic since then. Ulduar hard modes are a joke compared to the more recent heroic raiding tiers in difficulty and changes to normal.

No I haven't, for 2 reasons: 1. I can't be bothered running yet another iteration of the same dungeon after LFR, Flex and Normal. 2. The stuff gets nerfed anyway and all the titles/mounts are still available in the next expansion so there's really no point.

[miffy23]

No I haven't, for 2 reasons: 1. I can't be bothered running yet another iteration of the same dungeon after LFR, Flex and Normal. 2. The stuff gets nerfed anyway and all the titles/mounts are still available in the next expansion so there's really no point.

Then don't make statement based on the current difficulty and differences to lower raiding tiers if you don't have any empirical knowledge at all.

[Deleted]

This game was once a symbol of respect and considered the ultimate challenge/ social experience and the best design in the gaming industry...and now this is the wow we have?

Thanks for the laugh. So one thing is sure, you know nothing about the games intent at the time of creation and are just looking through your pink tinted goggles. The game was ment to be accessible from the start and got ridiculed for it by the other MMO's at the time and they just followed on with that line of thinking and kept the game accessible for everyone. LFR is nothing, it's intent is to be there for people who don't want to invest the time but still want to see the flow of the story and personally i think that's a good thing. Encounter wise it's got nothing to do with real raiding and with flex, normal, heroic everyone can find their own spot of difficulty if they want to experience the real raid.
So you get angry because everyone gets to see the raid and you are not a special snowflake anymore? well BUHU. If your ego gets a dent because of the way OTHER people see the content then it's time to get over yourself. If you say that you won't do the content anymore cause you have seen it in LFR then a) you haven't seen it cause LFR is missing a lot of the mechanics and b) you are raiding for your digital penis to be bigger than others instead of raiding because it's a challange and fun thing to do with friends (which in hero and normal it is).

[Hardkorr]

I play Wow, because it's fun. That's my "incentive." Mike Preach appears to believe that fun equals hard, yet this isn't true for everyone.

But for the most part, hard equals fun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toVNkuCELpU

Fine, I'll explain.

First of all, Ulduar's hard modes were non-binary, in contrast to the simple on and off toggle we have now. The advantage of this system was that you could do the hard mode from the very beginning if you so wanted.

Secondly, you had 2 difficulty modes, 10 and 25 man and within each of these 2 difficulty settings you had bosses that had up to 5 different modes, depending on your choice as a guild - no one forced you to do the entire dungeon in hard mode, you could pick out what you wanted. Choice is great.

Third. The changes your choices brought to the fights such as the Flame Leviathan, Freya, Mimiron, Iron Council or Yogg-Saron had a massive impact on the dynamic of the fight: many more additional abilities and adds for FL, a lot more complex structure to Freya, a complete contrast in mechanics in Mimiron's room, a huge jump up in demand for Iron Council and of course, a severe limit placed on your raid's survivability and capability to get rid of adds in Yogg Saron, depending on which keepers you decided to take or not take.

Fourth. The loot changes you got by defeating the hard mode was not just the same item with slightly better stats, you opened up an entirely new loot table, which was exciting. And of course you could unlock the final boss of Ulduar, which was Algalon, by killing Steelbreaker last. And last but not least, Alone in the Darkness guaranteed an awesome mount to drop, so your efforts were rewarded in any event.

What hard modes are now compared to what we had back then is disappointing.

Don't forget that Freya, Yogg, and council had degrees if difficulty that was pretty clear cut for players. At the top of my head, I can only recall the bug trio also having degrees if difficulty that you could do by choosing which one to kill first.