View Poll Results: Do you think Blizzard using double standards while arguing for paid boost to 90lvl?

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  • Yes

    22 38.60%
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  1. #1

    Is it double standards again?

    UPD: I think, people missing the point of this thread. It's not another one "against donate" thread. No. I'm playing some F2P games and don't see anything bad in having some paid options for players, who really need this options, cuz it's much more better, then have "it will never happen, cuz not all players need it" communism. This thread is simply asking you a question: isn't it double standards, that Blizzard are using extremely subjective "bad for game" argument in case of one feature, while implementing even "worse" feature without any doubts? May be they should stop putting on a comedy and admit, that they are exaggerating negative impact from features like 3rd spec too much too? Otherwise, if they won't, then they should admit, that telling us about "daydreaming about worst case scenarios" in case of paid boost to 90lvl - is hypocrisy and double standards too. You just can't be black and white at the same time, you can't be "double" - you should pick one side.

    First of all, let me give definition of double standards, how I understand it: it's subjective prejudiced relation to something. I.e. when the same arguments/facts/rules/etc. are applied to the same object or person differently, depending on one's subjective relation to this object or person. For example, if your friend would call you moron, you would most likely forgive him, but if some stranger on a street would call you moron, you would most likely react much more harder.

    So, I want to ask you some question. I think, everybody have already read this topic. Don't you think, that Blizzard's relation to paid boost to 90lvl is definitely "double standarded"? Let's take a look at the situation. When players are asking Blizzard to do something and Blizzard don't want to do it, then they find 100500 ridiculous reasons not to do it. Let's make some examples:

    Joining RU and EU BGs together. They're joined now, but several years ago Blizzard was refusing to do it and found many reasons not to.
    1) Technical problems. Proved to be lie after several accidental joints.
    2) Cyrillic symbols in nicks are shown as ????. Could be resolved via adding Cyrillic fonts into client (EU client for Russian players with EU account was fixed that way) or even via transliterating. (What's wrong with seeing something like Vasyanpro?).
    3) Other players won't be able to read and pronounce Russian nicks - it may cause problems in team's communication. Have somebody really ever read opposite team's nicks??? Transliteration is greatest way to solve this problem again.
    4) Players from other countries don't have Cyrillic keyboard layout - they won't be able to reproduce Russian nicks in tickets and reports. Yea... And Europeans was allowed to use any special symbols (Ðñøβæ) in their nicks and there were no problems with it.
    5) Russian nicks may theoretically appear offensive to players from other countries. (No comments, just stupid reason)

    Another example: 3rd spec. Many players are asking to add it for many years already, but Blizzard are finding more and more ridiculous reasons not to do it:
    1) Players will need gear on all specs at once. Bags bloat, caused by storing several sets of gear, as a consequence. They're doing is anyway and now the situation is even worse - everybody needs everything he wants. Bags bloat - is common problem.
    2) Players will start min-maxing via storing the same spec with only few changes made. Not actual anymore. Now situational talents - is intended design. Simply put some restriction on ability to choose the same spec - you're game developers or who? Disabled people? And what % of players are playing seriously enough to min-max? 1% of hardcore players? Should Blizzard really care about them?
    3) Players will be forced to have 3rd spec, just because they can, for min-maxing purposes. Same problem as with #2. What players could be forced to have 3rd spec? Hardcore raiders? They are respeccing for every boss anyway - it would make their life only easier. Most players simply won't do it, cuz they don't care about min-maxing - they don't even have enchants and gems, lol. What's the problem? (One of those "overexaggerated negative impact" arguments).
    4) It will remove interesting choices from game. It's proved, that there is nothing interesting in choosing, which two of 3 or 4 specs you need - if you'll need to respec, you'll just respec and being required to port to city and spend 66g to do it - is just unnecessary inconvenience. Choice is in whether you want to have 3rd spec or not.
    5) Most recent - it will kill class/spec uniqueness. Yeah, there was nothing bad in removing many things, that were providing class/spec uniqueness - arrows, bullets, quivers, ranged/relic slots, soul shards, placeable totems, unique class/spec buffs, etc. And it won't be something bad in removing many of gear itemization and customization in WOD.

    But here is the Bashiok's answer to player, who complained, that instant 90lvls will completely remove such large piece of content from game, as leveling, which will be really bad for game, player's experience and especially for new players:
    Yeeaaahhh... I think it's really easy and even attractive to people to daydream about worst case scenarios. I can't think of any games I've purchased where I thought the first thing I would do is create a high level character and skip the new game I just got, even if that option was available to me. I just paid for a game, and my first instinct is to not at least check out the beginning of that game? I don't know. Not to mention there are probably more ex-WoW players in the world than there are brand new never-played-an-MMO gamers.

    I.e. "you are to paranoid and exaggerating negative impact too much - in reality everything will be all right". Don't you think, that it's double standards? To "daydream about worst case scenarios" by themselves, when they don't want to do something and trying to beat this argument instead, when they need to do something?
    Last edited by AVPaul; 2014-01-18 at 05:23 PM.
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  2. #2
    I'm not too sure I grasp your point.

    Let's start with the joining of RU and EU BGs, your first topic. Several YEARS ago they didn't have the tech. That wasn't a lie, they didn't back then, now they do. So the rest of the points are largely irrelevant since they couldn't have done it before even if they wanted to. All the stuff about the names is possible, I don't know any amount of Russian so I have no idea what their names even look like, so I won't bother talking about that. The tech alone proves this one to be accurate for Blizzard.

    Having a trispec, there's simply no need for this. Some players ask for it, sure, but players ask for just about everything. There's virtually no use in having this in the game, so there's no real point in talking about it. It's useless, and would just be a waste of time and energy. Their reasons for not doing it are kind of silly, they could just say they don't want to because it's not necessary and leave it at that.

    I agree with Bashiok, people do always talk about worst case scenario for no reason. Just look at the forums, it's filled with people talking about how because they're gonna sell level 90s that you'll also be able to buy the best gear in the game from the shop, because somehow those two things are connected in people's minds. Doesn't really make any sense, but people always think about the worst case scenario.

    Also, none of what you mentioned was a double standard anyway.

  3. #3
    The Patient
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    hmm last I checked paid boosts were a discussion point for US/EU servers, they aren't in game and heck we don't even have a WoD beta to see how it would work.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ckabear/simple

    Ideally no one has ever hit the level cap of the last expansion, looked at their dungeon blues, and thought "I win."

  4. #4
    Having the option does not "remove" anything other than forcing people to run 5 year old content over and over again. I think keeping the requirement to run outdated content on their alts, which they have run many times already, is what makes no sense.

    That being said, I don't think you should be allowed the option unless you already have a toon at that level (I.e. You did it once already).

    Overall though, I don't see any double standard yet. Maybe I missed something....

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans Duridi's Avatar
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    I am not sure what you are getting at, besides trying to prove a double-standard.

    Many of these points are just opinion based, and Blizzard will have to discuss them internally when listening to play feedback. It's a bit hard to draw a double-standard conclusion from it, as it's a lot of factors involved.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    That being said, I don't think you should be allowed the option unless you already have a toon at that level (I.e. You did it once already).
    That takes away part of the point with the one free boost we get. The free one, is as far as I have understood it, first and foremost targeted at new and returning players who already have friends in the game. This allows these players, be them old ones or completely new to the game, to start playing with their friends directly, instead of being blocked from them for weeks or months, depending on how much they play. Being blocked like that can easily drive you away from the game again.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Duridi View Post
    That takes away part of the point with the one free boost we get. The free one, is as far as I have understood it, first and foremost targeted at new and returning players who already have friends in the game. This allows these players, be them old ones or completely new to the game, to start playing with their friends directly, instead of being blocked from them for weeks or months, depending on how much they play. Being blocked like that can easily drive you away from the game again.
    If you look at the front page of MMO C and the Bashiok quote earlier in this post, it seems the boost is primarily directed for alts.

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans Duridi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    If you look at the front page of MMO C and the Bashiok quote earlier in this post, it seems the boost is primarily directed for alts.
    Ok, that's a new one. When it was first announced, it didn't take long before they mentioned what I mentioned.

    I suck at digging up old posts though.

    Might be though, that they meant the paid version will be targeted at alts, seeing as everyone already has one at minimum 90 already.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Duridi View Post
    Ok, that's a new one. When it was first announced, it didn't take long before they mentioned what I mentioned.

    I suck at digging up old posts though.

    Might be though, that they meant the paid version will be targeted at alts, seeing as everyone already has one at minimum 90 already.
    I bet you are correct. I was on vacation when it was announced, so I did not see the earlier discussions.

    I wonder if this is Blizzard's way of seeing how many people actually level if they are given the option not to. Hmmmm

  9. #9
    Herald of the Titans Duridi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    I wonder if this is Blizzard's way of seeing how many people actually level if they are given the option not to. Hmmmm
    I think they might just have realised that leveling is a completely different experience than certain other popular activities. Some people play solely to raid, just as some play solely to PvP, some solely to quest, and so it goes on. The entire leveling experience in an MMO isn't necessarily the core gameplay anymore, as the game/games in general now offer far more content than in the past. With WoW also reaching level 100 with the next expansion, it can quickly become too overwhelming for someone interested in endgame content solely, to get past the leveling experience.

    I think a lot of people will still level characters, but you'll naturally see players who do not care for the leveling experience, skip it. This doesn't mean they'll necessarily skip it forever though. I used to play solely for raiding, and would have liked to skip leveling. Now I am the exact opposite. I level characters, but abandon them at max level. Offering level 90 boosts, does nothing more than offering players yet another option to keep the game fun.

    With that said, I hope they'll be able to sort out the leveling experience in not too long aswell, though I have serious doubts they will. This is however a step in the direction where leveling can be seen as it's own playstyle, that needs to be more than just a trip to reach max level. It needs to offer a richer journey for those who appreciate this type of content. It would also give a much better "whole impression" of the game.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    Having a trispec, there's simply no need for this. Some players ask for it, sure, but players ask for just about everything. There's virtually no use in having this in the game, so there's no real point in talking about it. It's useless, and would just be a waste of time and energy. Their reasons for not doing it are kind of silly, they could just say they don't want to because it's not necessary and leave it at that.
    Don't need it - don't use it. As simple as that. Don't decide on behalf of other players, what they need and what they don't. Ok, not all players need it, but it's easy change, cuz tech is already there (we already have double spec) - so what stops Blizzard from implementing it to make players, who really need it, happy? HM raids are needed only for few percents of players, but it doesn't mean, Blizzard shouldn't support them. They're saying, that it's "bad for game". But if even instant boost to 90lvl is not so bad for game, then may be 3rd spec is not so bad too? That's where double standards lay. "Bad for game" - is this subjective argument, I'm talking about.
    Last edited by AVPaul; 2014-01-18 at 11:30 AM.
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  11. #11
    High Overlord Yadryonych's Avatar
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    Пауль, ты и тут вайнишь?

    Not to care, folks, this is widely-famous whiner of Russian WoW community here, in his usual whining state

    Whines if everything new and old, implemented and removed, whines permanently
    Last edited by Yadryonych; 2014-01-18 at 11:17 AM.

  12. #12
    Cyrillic names required version 5.2 to be properly implemented. They also have to rebuild the chat to allow Eastern European, Cyrillic and ideograph scripts to be displayed properly. So it was definitely not a pretext.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    I
    Having a trispec, there's simply no need for this. Some players ask for it, sure, but players ask for just about everything. There's virtually no use in having this in the game, so there's no real point in talking about it. It's useless, and would just be a waste of time and energy.
    But there are tons of Reasons! Like for Example you are Tank in Raid and offspec DPS, but in PvP you need a completely different talent choice and Button assignment even if it is the same spec.

    And then there are PvP focused Specs like Unholy Deathknight or Marksmanship Hunters so for Example as a Deathknight you are Tank in the Raid, and have Offspec DPS Frost. But for PvP you go Unholy.


    I get the gear issue but with Warlords of Draenor some of it changes when you change specializations so it is a good time for the third Spec.
    Capitalism, Ho!

  14. #14
    Some enjoy levelling, some do not.
    Levelling had the potential to be a teaching tool, but the community killed any chance of that.
    Now it is all about getting through it as quickly as possible, at the expense of anyone else actually wanting to learn their class before level cap.
    Already you can get a load of unskilled players at 90 with the traditional levelling, so a boost isn't going to change anything.
    Bad players will still be bad players.

    If the saving and switching of the components of a spec, talents/glyphs/keybinds etc were better handled then there would be no need for dual spec.
    There isn't a need for tri-spec, simple as that.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Fincher View Post
    I get the gear issue but with Warlords of Draenor some of it changes when you change specializations so it is a good time for the third Spec.
    I bet tri (or more) spec will appear before the end of WoD. Look at all the systems being put in place to support it. Talents you can change on the fly and gear that changes. Each is a step to getting things setup for a smooth transition into multi specs.

  16. #16
    3rd spec might in fact work against players. Especially those playing hybrid classes. So, you play a paladin/priest/shaman? Spec holy/resto just because you can (and because the guild is too lazy to seek out actual healers) or you'll never raid again!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Gahmuret View Post
    3rd spec might in fact work against players. Especially those playing hybrid classes. So, you play a paladin/priest/shaman? Spec holy/resto just because you can (and because the guild is too lazy to seek out actual healers) or you'll never raid again!
    That's what I'm talking about. "I think it's really easy and even attractive to people to daydream about worst case scenarios."©Bashiok
    What % of players care about min-maxing? Most players don't even have gems and enchants. It's one of those cases, where hardcores are overexaggerating their importance for this game. Blizzard are not asking "How it would impact raiding guilds in a first place?" question for a long time already.
    Last edited by AVPaul; 2014-01-18 at 03:16 PM.
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    I think it's really easy and even attractive to people to daydream about worst case scenarios©Bashiok
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Gahmuret View Post
    3rd spec might in fact work against players. Especially those playing hybrid classes. So, you play a paladin/priest/shaman? Spec holy/resto just because you can (and because the guild is too lazy to seek out actual healers) or you'll never raid again!
    That is a guild/raid leadership problem. Not a spec availability problem.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    That is a guild/raid leadership problem. Not a spec availability problem.
    Yeah, Blizzard have told this numerous times already: if guild/static is not suiting you for some reason - just leave it and find another. If you're forced to respec and you don't want to do it, then may be this guild/static is too hardcore for you? May be you should find more casual one? We may say the same about gemming, chanting, reading tactics, raiding schedule, etc.: the fact, that you may be forced to do it by your guild/static, doesn't mean this things should not exist in a game. If you want to achieve something with help of other players, you should be ready to put corresponding amount of effort: higher result you want to achieve, more effort should be put into it by your party - more effort you should be ready to put in reply. If you can't put such an amount of effort in reply - then may be you don't deserve achieving this result? That's why I've become casual: I know, that I can't put enough effort into raiding now - I'm not even trying.
    Last edited by AVPaul; 2014-01-18 at 05:36 PM.
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    I think it's really easy and even attractive to people to daydream about worst case scenarios©Bashiok
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  20. #20
    Herald of the Titans Duridi's Avatar
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    Blizzard also pointed out that hardcore raiding guilds already swapped spec mid raid before dual spec was added(mine was one of them). Dual spec just made it less of a hassle.

    Same goes for tripple spec really. Some already do it.

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