View Poll Results: Would you run LFR if there was no loot to be obtained?

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  • No

    830 64.19%
  • Yes

    73 5.65%
  • Only once!

    390 30.16%
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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    No upwards change of difficulty would make heroic quite dull if everything was on par with Immerseus or Norushen
    Even if (!) they were unable to cratively design bosses and tune them to a linear difficulty ( a task probably made easier without having to worry about gear improving peoples output by variable amounts ) and as a result heroic mode became lack lustre (the lustre being the loot ofc ); EVEN IF that were true; it would still upset a much smaller number of the player base.
    While Diogenes was relaxing in the sunlight in the morning, Alexander, thrilled to meet the famous philosopher, asked if there was any favour he might do for him. Diogenes replied, "Yes, stand out of my sunlight". Alexander then declared, "If I were not Alexander, then I should wish to be Diogenes", to which Diogenes replied, "If I were not Diogenes, I should also wish to be Diogenes."

  2. #402
    Mechagnome Whidbey's Avatar
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    as long as change still dropped to pay repairs yes I would.

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    No, since the only reason I do it is to gear alts.

    What could possibly be the advantage of removing the gear? It's end game for tons of players, and part of end game is character progression through gear progression.
    Because welfare and only normal and heroic are eligible for loot and epics.
    Ofcourse.
    *yawn*
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  4. #404
    They say LFR is faceroll/easy/welfare epix.. And yet they complain about how long it takes/how hard it is?? These ppl...

  5. #405
    Would you raid Normal if they took away the loot? Silly poll.

    The LFR difficulty entertains a lot of people, for many reasons, leave it be.

  6. #406
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lsnderick View Post
    They say LFR is faceroll/easy/welfare epix.. And yet they complain about how long it takes/how hard it is?? These ppl...
    It's hard putting up with the people in LFR. The content itself is not hard and you're pretty much guaranteed to clear it if you stick in the group no matter how bad they are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  7. #407
    LFR is the greatest invention in WoW and I would do it without gear, I do it now and I don't need anything from there I go to just to watch the show!!!! Best entertainment in game. All the hijinks and listening to people complain about who is stupider and watching people do stupid stuff, I roll on the floor laughing!!!! You snobs are missing out!!!!!

  8. #408
    Epic! Arcanimus's Avatar
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    I retract my previous "No" response. I'd do it on alts to grief people into not doing it so Blizzard removes it.
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
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  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanimus View Post
    I retract my previous "No" response. I'd do it on alts to grief people into not doing it so Blizzard removes it.
    And people wonder why LFR is so bad. Thank you for the honesty. Yes, lets get Blizzard to remove anything you hate in the game shall we by ruin the experience for other people.

    Clearly your enjoyment and your $15 per month is more important than the other millions out there that also play the game.

  10. #410
    Herald of the Titans Geminiwolf's Avatar
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    I'd do it but it would be a once and done thing which would be the case for most if not all players who would use it. Then it would be a useless feature and Blizzard would end up getting rid of it so this would be a very bad idea and it wouldn't make much sense to do this in the first place.
    “Ever wonder why ice cubes taste so boring? It’s cuz you make ‘em outta stupid water, you bimbo! Put some fruit juice in there and freeze it into ice cubes, and put THAT in your milk.”
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  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by nekobaka View Post
    In mentioning of would someone play if their end game was crippled what do you say to those who liked five mans seeing their end game crippled in order to make LFR popular?
    There is a difference here. No one asked for dungeons to be removed. That was Blizzard's decision to remove it and replace it with LFR. The LFR people had no say in their removal.

    While at the moment, it is the regular and heroic raiders asking for LFR removal, even when LFR has no impact on their gameplay.

    LFR is bad at the moment partly because there are people there to grief others simply because of their hatred of it. They just cannot leave it alone because of their belief that people not as good as them should be allowed to raid and get the same color gear as them.

    To say dungeons are easier is subjective. Remember ICC PoS and more specially HoR? How many tanks baled when they see that coming? Or ZA and ZG? How complaints on how hard they were? Or did you only remember EoT heroics? They were easy because Blizzard changed it so it was easy and people could just farm it with little though.

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by Geminiwolf View Post
    I'd do it but it would be a once and done thing which would be the case for most if not all players who would use it. Then it would be a useless feature and Blizzard would end up getting rid of it so this would be a very bad idea and it wouldn't make much sense to do this in the first place.
    No it wouldn't be useless feature, it would be working just like they are apparently now designing it to do. You don't go to a tourist ride every day when you go to a new city, you go there once and done. Then when you go to a new city, you can do it once again. It allows you to see the place and art and whatnot, and then you can decide if you want to start raiding it with a proper group, hopefully leading you to a guild and making friends so you will stay subbed. If they can get one player to start raiding properly like this, it's worth losing 3-5 players who play only LFR and keep unsubbing once in a while as they have no social pressure to keep logging on. Sorry for the guys who really love LFR, but gutting it to a tourist mode is good for the game, and good for the business.

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by risingforce View Post
    Would you raid Normal if they took away the loot? Silly poll.

    The LFR difficulty entertains a lot of people, for many reasons, leave it be.
    The implications of gear being removed from any difficulty with progression would cause significant problems.

    LFR doesn't have progression unless you count stacking Determination.

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    The implications of gear being removed from any difficulty with progression would cause significant problems.

    LFR doesn't have progression unless you count stacking Determination.
    So change the normal and heroic to not drop loot and not requires better gear for progression. Then it just relies on skills all the way through. A better way to distinguish yourself.

  15. #415
    Scarab Lord Fahrenheit's Avatar
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    Only once. I don't raid anymore (I just don't have the time/lifestyle to allow me to have consistent play times). So I'd do it to see the stuff, and then won't go back.
    Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
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  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by kinneer View Post
    So change the normal and heroic to not drop loot and not requires better gear for progression. Then it just relies on skills all the way through. A better way to distinguish yourself.
    That's not the issue. The way progression is built right now allows guilds who raid 6 hours a week to full clear.

    If every fight was a grueling battle with a tight enrage and many wipes each week, guilds would struggle to clear in the lockout. Gear helps nerf bosses you have already completed once so you can get to your progression boss sooner, rather than each week wiping multiple times on each boss, which would be a ton of time. Right now I can clear 10/14 in one night, 3 hours. If we still had the difficulty on some fights we had when we first started, we would probably end like 5/14. Gear progression is a huge part of raiding not taking 50 hours a week, although some still believe that.

    Kill a boss, get some upgrades, get stuck on the next boss, raid time ends. Next week with the upgrades first boss is easier, more time to work on the second one.

  17. #417
    Fluffy Kitten Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geish View Post
    No it wouldn't be useless feature, it would be working just like they are apparently now designing it to do. You don't go to a tourist ride every day when you go to a new city, you go there once and done. Then when you go to a new city, you can do it once again. It allows you to see the place and art and whatnot, and then you can decide if you want to start raiding it with a proper group, hopefully leading you to a guild and making friends so you will stay subbed. If they can get one player to start raiding properly like this, it's worth losing 3-5 players who play only LFR and keep unsubbing once in a while as they have no social pressure to keep logging on. Sorry for the guys who really love LFR, but gutting it to a tourist mode is good for the game, and good for the business.
    Because Dragon Soul every tier is good for the game, I suppose. Or do you people not remember the lead raid dev specifically saying LFR's high participation saved his department's budget from bean counters looking at raiding's historically-low participation and giving it an equivalent budget in Cata?

    Actually, do that. Kill raiding, pour the massive funds that go into raiding into content for casual players. Blizzard could afford to lose every single narcissistic know-it-all hardcore on the planet and it'd hardly put a dent in their quarterly earnings, looking at the Normal and Heroic completion rates posted for SoO.

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  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Because Dragon Soul every tier is good for the game, I suppose. Or do you people not remember the lead raid dev specifically saying LFR's high participation saved his department's budget from bean counters looking at raiding's historically-low participation and giving it an equivalent budget in Cata?

    Actually, do that. Kill raiding, pour the massive funds that go into raiding into content for casual players. Blizzard could afford to lose every single narcissistic know-it-all hardcore on the planet and it'd hardly put a dent in their quarterly earnings, looking at the Normal and Heroic completion rates posted for SoO.
    Says the narcissistic know it all.

    Flex solves the same issue and has helped raiding use go up. I don't really see anybody asking for the removal of Flex right now. LFR does nothing more for causes than Flex does, LFR just helps scrubs get gear beyond what they are capable of.


    [please no personal attacks]
    Last edited by Tziva; 2014-01-20 at 05:28 PM.

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    That's not the issue. The way progression is built right now allows guilds who raid 6 hours a week to full clear.

    If every fight was a grueling battle with a tight enrage and many wipes each week, guilds would struggle to clear in the lockout. Gear helps nerf bosses you have already completed once so you can get to your progression boss sooner, rather than each week wiping multiple times on each boss, which would be a ton of time. Right now I can clear 10/14 in one night, 3 hours. If we still had the difficulty on some fights we had when we first started, we would probably end like 5/14. Gear progression is a huge part of raiding not taking 50 hours a week, although some still believe that.

    Kill a boss, get some upgrades, get stuck on the next boss, raid time ends. Next week with the upgrades first boss is easier, more time to work on the second one.
    So why is this okay for flex, normal and heroic but not LFR? I though you guys wanted a challenge, to show how good you are, yet here you are championing that you require gear to help you nerf bosses that you have already beaten.

    So, lets ask the question again, would you raid again and again if you already beaten once and there were no loot to collect?

  20. #420
    Fluffy Kitten Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Says the narcissistic know it all.
    Who, Ion? The guy who flat-out said LFR saved his department?

    Oh, right, you're talking about me. Sorry that I base my opinions on evidence rather than feeling upset that a game with a player base in the millions no longer caters specifically to a single-digit percentage of its player base.

    Flex solves the same issue and has helped raiding use go up. I don't really see anybody asking for the removal of Flex right now. LFR does nothing more for causes than Flex does, LFR just helps scrubs get gear beyond what they are capable of.
    Looking at Siege, LFR still has a much higher participation rate than Flex, by at least half. Moreover, I've peeked at Trade on five different servers and on all of them, Flex pugs are asking for Normal-mode item levels. That locks out players LFR lets in due to item level alone.

    But, yes. LFR is easy. Very much so. It also isn't drawing on pools of players who would otherwise do higher difficulties--it primarily draws on a pool of players who never bothered raiding prior to 4.3. That's how the raid team was able to justify the budget needed for raids like the ones in MoP, because now 60% of the players who hit level cap are going in there and getting on the gear treadmill instead of 5-20% (giving very generous estimates here so you won't sit there lawyering at semantics like so many other people do).

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