View Poll Results: Would you run LFR if there was no loot to be obtained?

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  • No

    830 64.19%
  • Yes

    73 5.65%
  • Only once!

    390 30.16%
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  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Because Dragon Soul every tier is good for the game, I suppose. Or do you people not remember the lead raid dev specifically saying LFR's high participation saved his department's budget from bean counters looking at raiding's historically-low participation and giving it an equivalent budget in Cata?

    Actually, do that. Kill raiding, pour the massive funds that go into raiding into content for casual players. Blizzard could afford to lose every single narcissistic know-it-all hardcore on the planet and it'd hardly put a dent in their quarterly earnings, looking at the Normal and Heroic completion rates posted for SoO.
    I already agreed with you pages ago, that they should cut the raid teams budget no matter what, atleast artists. Molten Core was fine as a raid dungeon, just needed better bosses, and you don't need big art budget to come up with fun bosses.

    But apparently they are going to just up all the other teams budget, as they have said that they are gonna offer alternative end game for casuals when LFR goes tourist mode.

    Top raiders are still the trend setters and the only group besides top pvp players to whom the designers go directly to ask opinions and advice. Losing this group would have far larger multiplicative effect, that would ultimately hurt the Blizzard brand itself, than their relatively small size might have you believe. It's like Apple losing the support of tech geeks (trend setters of consumer electronics). Even though 99% of people who have apple products are not tech geeks, it might destroy the company like happened to Nokia.

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Looking at Siege, LFR still has a much higher participation rate than Flex, by at least half.
    With that however, many people who participate in Flex, Normal or even Heroic likely killed bosses in LFR as well, skewing that data. Because it doesn't dictate participation but rather kills, it is hard to determine if that participation rate is actually higher or not. Raid content is probably equally (if not more) important to those single-digit players as it is to the entire collective that does LFR. In order words, active participation amongst normal and heroic raiders is significantly higher, week to week and month to month, than that of your average LFR player most likely.

    Even so, the argument is about gear and realistically, the main problem with LFR is A) normal raiders feeling the need to run LFR at all; and B) LFR rewarding inflated item level gear that isn't even remotely necessary to down said content with zero discrimination (items can and are rewarded to players who make next to no effort, AFK, et cetera).

  3. #423
    After spending a bit looking I am assuming this is the source you are talking about and placing on top for visibility.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...he-Daily-Blink
    Originally Posted by Ion Hazzikostas
    LFR justifies the creation of more raid content when millions of players are able to see content. Only a few thousand people actually saw Kel'thuzad, but millions saw Deathwing. The reason Mists of Pandaria is starting with 18 bosses and adding larger raid tiers than we have had previously is because many players are going to see the raids through LFR.
    If this is what you are referring to then at no point has he said anything about bean counters and historically low numbers which is blatantly false by itself or the team needing to be saved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Because Dragon Soul every tier is good for the game, I suppose. Or do you people not remember the lead raid dev specifically saying LFR's high participation saved his department's budget from bean counters looking at raiding's historically-low participation and giving it an equivalent budget in Cata?

    Actually, do that. Kill raiding, pour the massive funds that go into raiding into content for casual players. Blizzard could afford to lose every single narcissistic know-it-all hardcore on the planet and it'd hardly put a dent in their quarterly earnings, looking at the Normal and Heroic completion rates posted for SoO.
    I would like to see a source on that as I have not seen such a claim from him saying it saved the development budget from bean counters. Blizzard was struggling all over in Cata to not only put out content but content that lasted months on end. All the non-raid content was heavily gutted in grinds from feedback from "casuals" in WotLK. Certainly didnt bold well for the no-lifers that call themselves casuals as a crutch to hide behind and these players feed back came fruit to the launch of MoP.

    What LFR did provide was a means for the developers to provide that long term grind while shoving everyone into the same content including those who did not like raiding and liked five mans. This in turn allowed Blizzard to gut resources from five mans and shove it into raids.

    Not every hardcore is a raider nor is every raider a hardcore just as not every no lifer is a raider and being a raider doesnt make you a no lifer. The casuals in WoW do not share the same likes and dislikes in the game. The "majority" doesnt want the same thing, it is just a bull shit crutch argument players use to fulfill their own self centered ideals. WoW caters to a wide variety of players and Blizzards attempts to shove players into the same content has failed including that of LFR. The targeted audience of LFR did not ask for LFR, they asked for raiding alternatives. Instead they got shoved into LFR and saw alternative gearing paths gutted in rewards to the complete removal of VP gear which hurt every PVE player.

    Sadly it took a whole expansion for the developers to realize no mater how hard they push for LFR to happen as the long term grind replacement for players who had no interests in raiding just wasnt going to happen. So hopefully WoD will bring the alternatives and options that players have been asking for in the first place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Who, Ion? The guy who flat-out said LFR saved his department?

    Oh, right, you're talking about me. Sorry that I base my opinions on evidence rather than feeling upset that a game with a player base in the millions no longer caters specifically to a single-digit percentage of its player base.
    So yeah a source would be good because I dont remember him saying it the way you seem to be interpreting it. Also Ion is the lead encounter designer which covers more than just raids. The game also did not solely cater to raiders, it has always had a variety of content for players with different interests. Raiding was just the pinnacle of challenging group based PVE content and by nature of design requires a lot of resources compared to features like scenarios which are comparatively inexpensive to produce. If at any point WoW has ever focused so heavily on raid or die it would be with MoP and LFR. Far more potential alternatives to raiding was introduced in MoP yet pale in rewards and long term progression to LFR. Even Cata had less of a gap between raiders and raiding alternatives.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2014-01-21 at 06:51 AM. Reason: Finding of source

  4. #424
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monarken View Post
    Would you?...
    sure. why not? it doesn't drop any useful gear now.


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  5. #425
    Mechagnome BlahBlahFrigginBlah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Why should we accept something up to change? Blizzard has promised other things would never happen and they did.

    Don't like it? Don't be in the thread. When LFR stops having any incentive for raiders and their alts to be there, then people wont complain as much.
    the only people who complain about it, are the ones who self righteously claim they "dont do it anyway".

    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Don't like it? Don't be in the thread.
    really?
    REALLY?

    my whole opinion of this thread is actually summed up on the early pages when the reverse was suggested. would you still do heroic if it did not reward gear? hell no you wouldnt.

    end of story
    i say a lot of things.
    some of them may be sarcastic, rude, or insulting.
    but if you read carefully, i dont aim to insult people, and very rarely trolling ~ its my honest opinion. if you think im talking about you, go get some coffee and read it again later.
    have a nice day.

  6. #426
    This is kind of a stupid question. It's basically Would you run after an empty string in front of your face if you were hungry? No of course you wouldn't. You'd go find some food. The point of MMOs are to Progress. Without progression or 'the carrot on the stick', who the fuck is going to play the game? This is a very dumb question that cuts out the basics of what an MMO is. I hate LFR as much as the next person but it still needs to drop loot as do all other difficulties.

  7. #427
    The Lightbringer vian's Avatar
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    No.

    Remove LFR, introduce "Raid Viewer" - A dumbed down version (think normal scenarios) of the current LFR with no loot.
    Go back to to the olden days and add more challenging 5man heroics with epic rewards.
    Last edited by vian; 2014-01-22 at 05:50 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by bizzy View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  8. #428
    Oh, another special snowflake syndrome thread?
    If it doesn't affect you, why the hell would you care?

  9. #429
    Once to do the story. Can't imagine the queue times if it still requires a full raid and doesn't give any tangible reward, though.

  10. #430
    If there was also no gear required to do it, yes. Otherwise, no. Like any other form of raiding, you have to have up to date gear for the next one.

    That said, there is absolutely zero reason to remove gear from raid finder. Zero.

  11. #431
    Herald of the Titans Yakobro's Avatar
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    Now that I'm in a guild doing normal and pushing heroics fuck no.

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Looking at Siege, LFR still has a much higher participation rate than Flex, by at least half.
    That's because pugs still find flex SoO hard.

  13. #433
    Oh god no. As many others, I only run it to gear up alts. I change chat channel so I don't have to look at the raid chat as people tend to annoy the hell out of me, don't look at Recount so I don't have to care if I do bad or good, as well, I'm there to gear up and get better. I just follow everyone else, nuke what I need to nuke, and don't say a thing. No loot drops, no reason to run it for me.

  14. #434
    Quote Originally Posted by BlahBlahFrigginBlah View Post
    my whole opinion of this thread is actually summed up on the early pages when the reverse was suggested. would you still do heroic if it did not reward gear? hell no you wouldnt.
    I actually would, it's just like wanting to beat a game to full 100% (For example a simple/normal/hard mode I usually play game through on normal, and then on hard because I wanna do the whole game). The problem though is that heroic-modes right now are balanced around having gear that's a bit better than normal-mode so that would mean it needs to be rebalanced or gear needs to be changed from normal mode.

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by Theronus View Post
    Oh, another special snowflake syndrome thread?
    If it doesn't affect you, why the hell would you care?

    Tier and VP gear pulled off vendors in order to prop up LFR which in turn took away the anti bad RNG system. This system had allowed non-raiders the ability to obtain normal mode raid level gear without stepping foot into a raid. Both raiders and non-raiders got hurt in Blizzards attempt to shove non-raiders into raiding. It is fairly narrow minded to think that LFR has no affect on other aspects of the game. Blizzards goal of shoving non-raiders into LFR as a long term grind has failed and with it goes the pedestal it sits on with the community hopefully getting what they asked for in the first place, alternatives to raiding.

    If players was enjoying themselves and being happy with their own accomplishments then there wouldnt be complaints about others getting rewarded for putting more effort into a video game. It doesnt seem the community has yet come up with a name for the "special snowflakes" that fail to succeed and in turn get butthurt at others for being better than them. Ego issues all around.


    I am still waiting on that source Callei.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2014-01-22 at 11:11 PM.

  16. #436
    I would still kinda do LFR for the VP for a bit and to practice. However it wouldn't be a lot.

  17. #437
    Blademaster Hoka Inumuta's Avatar
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    I would only do it with no loot if it wasn't as painful as it is now, otherwise, no way.

  18. #438
    Titan smrund's Avatar
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    No.

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  19. #439
    Mechagnome Steampunk's Avatar
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    Only once and only if I at least got valor from it.

    There's no reward in playing through how PAINFUL LFR is, when it's just "for funzies" and to learn strat with people I'll never see again.
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  20. #440
    I would, probably only once for the storyline. Depends on the raid. ToT I'd probably do once, SoO I would maybe do a few times, both horde/alliance side so I could see everything.

    I don't care about loot in LFR (Hell I never get loot anyway), it's more about seeing content for me.
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