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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    I strongly argue with a lot of those percentages given how long I've been playing this game. If anything, those percentages should either be
    in favor of the alliance over Horde, or have the margins shorter. I don't recall Horde winning more, even by a little bit than the other side.

    AV though, that I will contest is primarily won by Alliance. Rightfully so, the landscape is tailor made for them. Horde have to cross a bridge
    for crying out loud, its the best chokepoint for people to play defensively. There's a lot more landscape for them to travel to our base than
    vice versa, superior towers and a helluva lot less defense at the base compared to Alliance (all those cluttered enemy NPCs that players pull)
    and its skewed in their favor.
    As a Horde player... we have 2 really good choke points. The choke point at Iceblood GY and the choke point on the hill leading up to our base. It's just a question of if enough Horde are willing to play defensively for it to matter.

    There is only one way past Iceblood. You need to have a stacked defense there though. Some up front towards where the roads come together just past IB tower and some a little further back by Tower Point to catch the stragglers that make it through.

    We can hold off the Alliance indefinitely at our gate if we're willing to do it. I've played in some Horde AV premades where we have a strat called "Sweaty Armpits." Basically, we let the Alliance take all of our towers and wait for them at our base. We then hold them off at our gate and whittle them down until they run out of reinforcements. Yeah... it takes quite a while, but it is doable... even with as few as 20 in the premade.

    The bridge is a great chokepoint as well, but it's not insurmountable. Horde has to make a concerted group push across the bridge and through the Alliance that are fighting at the end of it. Too often, Horde stops on the bridge and doesn't push through. In order to succeed on the bridge, they need to rush as a group straight through to the aid station and cap it to keep the Alliance from rezzing back there.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    GotN is garbage. If it were a flat 20% heal, then maybe. But it's not, it's over 15 seconds. And it's on a 3 minute CD. That is shit. Sprint is ok. Escape Artist is ok because it doesn't do much for real crowd control. It just fixes movement. It's not like breaking out of a REAL CC that keeps you from being able to cast or attack and there is no DR for slows or snares which reduces its effectiveness when the effect can just be reapplied almost instantly. Shadowmeld is ok because it drops you from being a target and stealths you. That's nice. Stoneform, again, is only ok. The weapon specializations? Meh. So you get a very slight increase in constant damage. Considering most PvP favors burst over sustained damage (due to healers almost always being OP), the weapon specializations are nothing great.

    And, by the way, I never said they had no uses. I said they were worse than Horde racials.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salech View Post
    Yeah stoneform is soooooooooooo good and escape artist is probably the most insane skill in the game, there is 1 good racials for PvP on alliance, 1, unless you are totally out of this world crazy ofcourse, and that's Every man for himself.
    Yeah, but EMFH is better than any other racial for pvp. You get a free trinket. There's nothing better than that.
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  3. #183
    The fact that Blizzard haven't balanced alterac valley disturbs me.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khwaj View Post
    and horde want IoC and AV removed cos its "unbalanced"
    Alliance has huge advantages in both bgs if you didnt know.

    in isle they can reach docks alot faster, and docks is instant win.
    in AV horde has far worse base defense NPC-wise so its piss easy for alliance to cap the towers and protect them too. (horde archers cant shoot inside, in alliance towers atleast 2 archers can prevent flag capture, Dun Baldar gy can be interrupted by alliance tower archers)

    Big inbalance in design is the reason why alliance has such big win ratio in AV and Isle.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Otaka View Post
    Alliance has huge advantages in both bgs if you didnt know.

    in isle they can reach docks alot faster, and docks is instant win.
    in AV horde has far worse base defense NPC-wise so its piss easy for alliance to cap the towers and protect them too. (horde archers cant shoot inside, in alliance towers atleast 2 archers can prevent flag capture, Dun Baldar gy can be interrupted by alliance tower archers)

    Big inbalance in design is the reason why alliance has such big win ratio in AV and Isle.
    Archers are really a non issue. You can just have one person aggro and kill them while another caps. Horde has a better base. Its easier to defend FW keep. You run uphill, through gates, into a tiny room, then uphill again between towers. Horde and their archer can stand around/in towers and just aoe and defend. SPGY is easy to assault as Horde. I always just stand on top of the mountains surrounding it and rain fire upon the silly Alliance. Balinda is also much easier than Galv.
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  6. #186
    And those graphs are 100% of the reason why I, as horde, have had AV and IoC blacklisted from the very day blacklisting was introduced. It was truly upsetting when I began leveling my Hunter and forgot about blacklisting and ended up in an AV. First and only time that will happen on that character. 80-20 is unacceptable. Maybe Horde bailing on them has made it worse but it was never even close to balanced.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Ansible View Post
    I see a few posts saying Horde is better due to racials...

    Anyone mind saying how Horde racials are better than Alliance?
    More damage/burst racials, as well as the AoE Stun/Silence.

    Beyond that, it's just a self-fulfilling prophecy. Horde is viewed as the 'better' faction, so many of the better players switch to Horde, leaving the Alliance with the worse players. You'll notice that most of the top rated teams in both rated battlegrounds and 3v3/5v5 arena are Horde. At that point it's not about FOR THE HORDE vs FOR THE ALLIANCE, just minmaxing for any possible advantage you can get.

    PvE is in a similar position, with many of the top Alliance guilds switching to Horde.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirBadass View Post
    More damage/burst racials, as well as the AoE Stun/Silence.

    Beyond that, it's just a self-fulfilling prophecy. Horde is viewed as the 'better' faction, so many of the better players switch to Horde, leaving the Alliance with the worse players. You'll notice that most of the top rated teams in both rated battlegrounds and 3v3/5v5 arena are Horde. At that point it's not about FOR THE HORDE vs FOR THE ALLIANCE, just minmaxing for any possible advantage you can get.

    PvE is in a similar position, with many of the top Alliance guilds switching to Horde.
    It really got bad during MoP when a number of top Alliance PvE guild went Horde due to racial imbalances. It started a bit of a domino effect that most certainly bled into PvP, look at the the top arena teams or RBGs teams, almost all are horde. The actual players by and large on both factions are of equal skill and gear in random BGs, it's all about racials and success breeding success at this point.

    I've been playing for a long time strictly as a solo queuing type from random BGs and it was NEVER this bad. I'm not sure what Blizzard can do though, if they just equalize racials, why would all the people who faction swapped to horde come back to the alliance? Faction pride? People don't really care about that, it's about min/maxing and no one will be spending money for no reason.

    If they "just" equalize the racials there wouldn't be incentive for top pve and pvp players to come back to the alliance. But something needs to be done, it's just unfun to have to use something like oqueue or you lose 6 or 7 out of 10 games.
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  9. #189
    Docks are not the reason alliance wins so often. In most games glaives don't even reach the horde fortress. For some reason horde insists in taking workshop and demolishers. Demolishers can be destroyed quite easily by 4-5 people. Result: 15-20 horde players are just standing in front of the gate just doing nothing. It's just bad tactics not the map.

  10. #190
    Did anyone calculate the total percentages, ie. which faction wins more overall?

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by getupkid55 View Post
    Yeah, Alliance have a landslide on IoC/AV ... but Horde wins every other BG by a sizable margin. I don't think they have a right to bitch.

    Horde ques are basically 5 to 6 times longer. (10 to 12 minute ques on average). Most horde, including me don't que for 40 man bg's. For me I despise these because they are more PVE and PVP. People just zerging to bosses.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Archers are really a non issue. You can just have one person aggro and kill them while another caps. Horde has a better base. Its easier to defend FW keep. You run uphill, through gates, into a tiny room, then uphill again between towers. Horde and their archer can stand around/in towers and just aoe and defend. SPGY is easy to assault as Horde. I always just stand on top of the mountains surrounding it and rain fire upon the silly Alliance. Balinda is also much easier than Galv.
    I know what you are saying it is a bit unbalanced but not so much the horde would lose that much . Notice the other thing about those 2 BG's is that they have a PVE side to them . Over the years I notice most horde players will totally ignore the BG objectives in AV and Isle so they can kill alliance players ...for example Horde rarly guard towers or grave yards . The funny thing is the horde would win almost ALL AV's if they would turtle the alliance at Galv ...forces alliance back to the starting cave and then the horde bottle neck them at the northern pass ...and win by reinforcements

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Elite Peon View Post
    I know what you are saying it is a bit unbalanced but not so much the horde would lose that much . Notice the other thing about those 2 BG's is that they have a PVE side to them . Over the years I notice most horde players will totally ignore the BG objectives in AV and Isle so they can kill alliance players ...for example Horde rarly guard towers or grave yards . The funny thing is the horde would win almost ALL AV's if they would turtle the alliance at Galv ...forces alliance back to the starting cave and then the horde bottle neck them at the northern pass ...and win by reinforcements
    Every time I see Horde win this is how they do it. For some reason, they don't though. I guess all the players that know how do play AV blacklist it.
    When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.

  14. #194
    Although I stopped playing WOW when Cata came out and my memory of WOW has started to become foggy and distant long ago, I think this was the big picture of PVP throughout from classic to WOTLK. It's a shame back then Blizz released only BS data claiming horde-alli win ratio was 50%-50%. Anyway, very nice job at data mining! Great post.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thopp View Post
    Did anyone calculate the total percentages, ie. which faction wins more overall?
    Horde ~52.5% and Alliance ~47.5%.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Ansible View Post
    So you don't think Stoneform, a 20% heal, Escape Artist, a sprint or Shadowmeld have any uses in pvp? Lets not forget the weapon specializations that allow you to gem/reforge/gear for more damage...
    Haha, Shadowmeld? You're joking, right?

    Go ahead and PVP as Alliance if you think their racials are so great for it.

    And I don't understand people talking about "Horde players". Every single person I know who plays WoW has characters of both factions. Which means there's something other than the player skill level happening here.
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  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceshaman View Post
    Although I stopped playing WOW when Cata came out and my memory of WOW has started to become foggy and distant long ago, I think this was the big picture of PVP throughout from classic to WOTLK. It's a shame back then Blizz released only BS data claiming horde-alli win ratio was 50%-50%. Anyway, very nice job at data mining! Great post.
    It was a lot more balanced in Wotlk and beforehand. This is the same data mining proces done at the start of Cataclysm and a year beforehand (start of Icc patch):

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...p-of-the-Month

    There is a blacklisting feature now that enables players to remove two (or three?) bgs from the random bg queue, hence making every BG more unbalanced. And Every man for himself (human racial) was also A LOT stronger in Wotlk and Cataclysm.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by chaud View Post
    Horde ~52.5% and Alliance ~47.5%.
    And this is why they aren't changing things. It's all screwed up, but this statistic is close to balanced, so whatever.

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  19. #199
    Can someone tell me if that stats are from US or EU???

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by zrankfappa View Post
    If everyone transferred off PVP servers who didn't want to PVP, they would become ghost towns, and have to be merged.

    I have been on a PVP realm for more than 6 years, there's never been any WPVP ... just the occasional ganking.
    My experience was different.
    A guildie was fishing. Got ganked. Normally it's a gank 'n run. This person camped them. We came in and killed them. They called in more friends. It became a large event. It.Was.Fun.

    Perhaps you have never experienced that -- and if so, and if you enjoy pvp, then I'm sad you weren't able to see such shenanigans.

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