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  1. #101
    The Lightbringer Dewote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rekx View Post
    who would have thought AV favors alliance.. o right. people have been saying that since its release but nah.. lets NEVER fix AV.
    Wrong.
    AV favored horde in the beginning. Then they moved horde entrance in patch 2.4 further away and it has been this way since then.
    Last edited by Dewote; 2014-01-20 at 10:12 AM.
    FC 2793-2016-8218 - Name: Suoma

  2. #102
    That graph accurately explains why I always exclude AV and IoC from que.

  3. #103
    Also it's fun how alliance keeps acting like they NEVER win the other 9 bgs, they do, just a bit less often than horde
    And also fun how Horde acts like they can't bl IOC/AV and be happy orcs raping alliance elsewhere.

  4. #104
    I would like to remove Isle of Conquest from my Blacklist as a Horde player so I can get the meta and get the khan title, but it'll never happen.

    Blizzard needs to ban bots, nerf the heck out of glaive damage severely or move docks flag

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by ApeDosMil View Post
    I went through some crazy number crunches to illustrate why the horde's average 59.13% win rate after blacklisting AV/IoC vs. the alliance's win rate of 51.52% win rate with AV/IoC not blacklisted and SotA and SSM blacklisted instead (seeing as they are our worst losses as alliance) and I'm sickened. IF (pay attention to that word) you just get conquest only from random bgs based off of those blacklists, it would take the average alliance player 94.5 more minutes a week to cap, not including queue times. Getting a full conquest set would take an alliance player 20.58 more hours (or 1234.94 minutes) a season. If you really believe that gap is acceptable, you are delusional.
    horde spends those 20 hours in queue...

  6. #106
    AV favored for allys, been for while and allys whine about horde starting spot.
    Bl av/IoC is good idea if ya horde becease both bgs are broken been for while.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Dewote View Post
    Wrong.
    AV favored horde in the beginning. Then they moved horde entrance in patch 2.4 further away and it has been this way since then.
    it never favored horde. horde had faster bel, alliance had everything else, chokepoints, better towers etc. now alliance has everything.

    in the end, horde has the same right to complain about broken BGs as alliance does about racials. But to be honest, if even symetric BGs like kotmogu are dominated by horde by pretty big margin, its hardly only about racials.
    Last edited by Sarevokcz; 2014-01-20 at 10:30 AM.

  8. #108
    Why all horde players are complaining about AV? They have advantages in almost all other BG's but no, it's not enough ?

    I'm playing for the Alliance and my win/lose ratio is about 90% of wins (and yes, I've banned all 40 ppl BG's because of long queues there, so it's not from AV or IoC). It's all about people you going with - how many bots on each side or how many not geared players there is. I guess, I'm lucky to see decent players in my team quite often.

  9. #109
    I can't be bothered to go through all this butthurt here, is this data US only, or both US and EU?

  10. #110
    Field Marshal Igzorn's Avatar
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    pvp died for me about that time arenas were put in the game (bc)i mean befor that nobody needet recilence or pvp power. and i was there i got my knight titel with my hunter
    Last edited by Igzorn; 2014-01-20 at 11:12 AM.

  11. #111
    I strongly feel like alliance numbers are too high. Have not managed to get my first win of the day all week. Granted I only do about 5 bgs a day.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodbath234543 View Post
    They need to remove IOC from the game, and remove AV from Q to make it like vanilla AV with Hour(s) long battles, dailies, objectives and mini bosses, AND make the dailies, boss and player kills give honor. In one fail swoop you get rid of the whole reason Horde dont Q AV and IOC, BOTS.
    "Fail Swoop" made me laugh, not sure if it was intentional or not xD

  13. #113
    Absolutely no one with a clue is surprised about AV.

    And apologists are essentially saying that it'd be balanced if one faction started doing proper teamwork in order to defend against the mindless zerg that win regardless.
    The layout of AV doesn't support these 10 minute games. Horde towers, respawn, placement are all ideal for the Alliance.

    Sad, considering I loved that BG before Blizzard did the third or fourth horde-specific nerf.
    Tho I suppose no one even remembers that anymore.

  14. #114
    It's just a matter of self-fullfilling prophecy. Horde joins AV or IoC and starts with the feeling of beeing destroyed in minutes. Alliance in many other BGs. No wonder when that happens. My Alliance Main played some 3k BGs and won some 2,2k. Of course as healer and mostly not in a group. I never understood why Alliance is complaing so much. If Horde would start to defend their stupid towers in AV or just ignore the workshop in IoC things would change. But no, they insist to play their strange tactics.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Levit View Post
    Ok, so Arathi Basin= Horde 60% to Alli 40%(20% losing ratio not good or even close to your 50%) Warsong Gulch=47.4% Alli to 52.6 Horde ( The only one close to your so call dream ratio. still almost a 6% discrepancy) EOS= Alli 44% to horde 55%( 10% no even close). SOTA= 34%Alli to Horde 68%(That's 30% not even close) TP= 42% Alliance 57% to horde (12% not close.) BFG= 42% to Alli 57% horde ( 12% diff) ToK= 41% Alli to 58% Horde(17% diff) SM= 35% Alli to 64% horde( 30% diff again) DG= 42% Alli to 57% horde ( 15% diff.)

    So I say again we only have 2 BGs as ally and you still complain and moan that they should be taken away. didn't they ever tell you you being greedy is bad.
    That is wrong dude.Lets see how your statistics are at 50/50 w/l for both factions.
    AB-H60% vs A40% (that is 10% in favor of horde to the mark of 50/50 that the ideal w/l should be for both factions),i dont know where u pull the 20% crap
    WG-H47,4% vs A52,6 (that is a 2,6% in favor of Alliance) not that big deal (u called that 6% remember ideal w/l should be 50%-50% for both factons
    EotS-A44,4% vs H 55,6% (5,4% in favor of Horde)
    Strand-A31,7% vs H68,3% (18,3% in favor of Horde)
    AV-A78,2% vs H21,8% ( 28,2% in favor of Alliance)
    IoC-A84,9% vs H15,1% (34,9% in favor of Alliance)
    Twin Peaks-A42,7% vs H57,3%(7,3% in favor to Horde)
    BfG-A42,1% vs H57,9%( 7,9% in favor to horde)
    ToK-A41,9% vs H58,1% (8,1% in favor to horde)
    Silvershard mines-A35,5% vs H64,5% (14,5% in favor to horde)
    Deepwind-A42,1% vs H57,9% (7,9% in favor to horde)

    Now if you look at all statistics it is true that horde win ratio is better than alliance on most bgs,but u have to admit that the difference in w/l is not that great.I mean come on in 10 games played on many of those bgs alliance wins 4 and horde wins 6 (w/l <10%)
    It's true that Strand 18,3% and silvershard 14,5% which favors the horde are a bit high and they should take a look at them(but its mostly player skill and such).
    Now take a look at AV/IoC (28,2% and 34,9%).Don't you see something wrong there?
    My point in all this is that most bgs that people say its horde dominated,the w/l ratio between both factions are <10% and are close to the 50/50.But IoC and AV w/l ratio is too overwhelming.

    If i were to blame anyone i would probably blame the hk premades which are made especially by the russian servers.

  16. #116
    Pandaren Monk Darksoldierr's Avatar
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    Why does Strand favors Horde that much? Silvershard i can understand, that map is not balanced, but Strand?
    Time is on our side
    Brutal Gladiator Enhancement Shaman *rawr*

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Luminoth4 View Post
    In AV, if the Horde defends at Galv, they usually win. Otherwise the Alliance wins usually due to Zerg.
    <snip>
    Regarding AV, I do consider it biased. If players listen and DKs/Paladins rush FW Towers, Alliance can be still killing Galv whilst FW are being capped. On the other hand, I consider SSM to be Horde biased due to ease of access to both Lava and Mid Carts.
    <snip>

    If Horde were to defend AV, you would see a different result in that BG. Gear and Healers in smaller BGs are much more important than in the 40 Man PVE Raids (AV/IoC). Looking at BGTargets, you can often tell which team will win based on HP and Healers.

    These are my Personal opinions. I've recorded the last 100 BGs I played (4th Jan - 18th Jan) and will hopefully post the results of my experiences soon, when I organize them.
    The problem with Horde and AV is that players think it's a zerg race to the boss. However, the map isn't designed that way.

    In order for Horde to win, they need to play a defensive game and therein lies the problem. Playing AV defensively means a match that lasts a good 10-15 minutes longer for Horde to win. Unfortunately, that leaves us with two problems... 1) the "OMG my honor-per-hour" crowd would rather lose AV quickly than play to win and 2) new players think that you have to "race to the boss" to win. With these two factors, many Horde who like to play to win end up blacklisting AV.

    I know that Horde can win AV. I regularly run with an AV premade group... we play defensively and we win... even if we have only 15 people in the match, we win. We let the pugs push offensively while we back-cap and defend our base.

    Speaking of which... in AV pugs, you seldom see Horde back-capping while Alliance regularly sends 5+ to recap their bunkers.

    Yep... Horde has to play defensively to win AV.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by godgunner View Post
    doesnt the graph show that on mirrored maps that the side that is better (gear/skill/teamwork) at pvp seems to win more and that on non mirrored maps the side with the map advantage will win more
    because the design so favors one side enough to be able to overcome the skill/gear/teamwork factors.

    graph says horde is wining most BG but most BG are mirrored so that means its a gear/skill/teamwork win. But on maps where its not mirrored one side or the other (which ever the map favors)
    steam rolls most of the time. (non mirrored maps are just bad design)
    Non-mirrored maps are fine. Players who don't understand the strats needed to play those BGs are what's wrong.

    Horde does fine in AV if they play defensively. Horde does fine in IoC if they take docks/kill glaives.

    **BUT** 99% of the time (ok about 80% of the time according to the graphs), Horde does neither so they lose.

  18. #118
    Scarab Lord Fahrenheit's Avatar
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    I'm genuinely curious as to the reasoning why Horde win more overall games. With such a large sample size I don't think it's possible to be something like player skill.

    My (granted) anecdotal evidence suggests that the same players that make up one faction are the same caliber of players that make up the other faction, especially now, 9 years into the game's life.

    I will say this though, I've been PvPing the same spec/class combo (Feral Druid) for nearly 9 years now and I've always managed to win (approx. 56% winning percentage) more than I lose with the exception of current WoW, all done while solo queuing my way to "Battlemaster", "Justicar", "of the Alliance", and now I nearly have "Khan" done.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Maconi View Post
    60/40 isn't a bad ratio at all (although the fact that it favors the Horde more often than not is odd). Blizzard would be the most amazing designers/developers EVER if they managed to pull off a consistent 50/50 (that's not realistic though).

    The 3 BGs that need to be looked at/rebalanced are obviously Alterac Valley, Isle of Conquest, and Strands of the Ancient. That large of a disparity shouldn't be acceptable.
    Strands is the perfect mirror BG, if they are not winning the same as Horde is not by design.

  20. #120
    If u play in the Horde you must always have AV and IoC on the blacklist

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