Battleground Win Ratios, Upcoming SoO Changes Feedback, Blue Tweets, DLC #424

[godgunner]

doesnt the graph show that on mirrored maps that the side that is better (gear/skill/teamwork) at pvp seems to win more and that on non mirrored maps the side with the map advantage will win more
because the design so favors one side enough to be able to overcome the skill/gear/teamwork factors.

graph says horde is wining most BG but most BG are mirrored so that means its a gear/skill/teamwork win. But on maps where its not mirrored one side or the other (which ever the map favors)
steam rolls most of the time. (non mirrored maps are just bad design)

[|Dexter|]

This contents zero real news just some forum chat...

[godgunner]

doesnt the graph show that on mirrored maps that the side that is better (gear/skill/teamwork) at pvp seems to win more and that on non mirrored maps the side with the map advantage will win more
because the design so favors one side enough to be able to overcome the skill/gear/teamwork factors.

graph says horde is wining most BG but most BG are mirrored so that means its a gear/skill/teamwork win. But on maps where its not mirrored one side or the other (which ever the map favors)
steam rolls most of the time. (non mirrored maps are just bad design)

[Zenny]

One thing and one thing only. Alliance racials are shit in comparison.
Anyone who fails to see this is probably retarded or trolling their ass off.

lol, Every Man for Himself.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Back in the days, we (Horde) had a shorter way to Belinda then Alliance had to Galv, that is very true.
But the "advantages" Alliance have/had wasn't laying on Belinda/Galv. It's the main base.
For Horde to get into Alliance base, we need to cross an open bridge where we have no cover from NPC fire, while Alliance has loads of buildings and mostly avoidable NPC fire. (And no bridge). Not that it does much dmg anyways. But it's the principle.
Back when you could actually bring the wing commanders outside the keep, Alliance had an advantage there as well, as the Graveyard capture point in Alliance base was/is directly outside the keep. Which meant Horde would have to be careful with pulling the wing commanders while the GY was being captured (in case of wipe, Alliance could recap easily).
While last Graveyard capture point inside Horde base, is past the keep, and over a bridge.. Which made it a lot safer to pull wing commanders out, cause it was easier to defend that capture point while commanders were getting killed.

But how things are now I don't really care about.. I lost interest for pvp, as soon as resilience gear and arena came out.

While I think your GY point was totally valid, I still think the Horde has a field advantage otherwise. FW keep requires you to run through a small area, then up stairs and uphill between two towers, which Hordies can easily just stand upon and rain death upon you. You can of course do nothing. On the other side of the map, pre bridge, Horde can scale the mountains around SPGY and rain fire down there too. Its much easier to attack/defend with the high ground.

Not to mention, again, how ridiculous it is that Horde can reach the Ally captain before we can... I mean.. if they could reach Galv before Allys reaches Balinda.. whatever.. Back in the day I had seen a group of 10 people engage Balinda before my team even got there.

People should also quit calling this a PVE fight. Without your opponents, you could EASILY take down your opponents commander. This isn't about your struggles versus the AI controlled NPCs, this is purely about defending your own bases/captains/commanders.

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doesnt the graph show that on mirrored maps that the side that is better (gear/skill/teamwork) at pvp seems to win more and that on non mirrored maps the side with the map advantage will win more
because the design so favors one side enough to be able to overcome the skill/gear/teamwork factors.

graph says horde is wining most BG but most BG are mirrored so that means its a gear/skill/teamwork win. But on maps where its not mirrored one side or the other (which ever the map favors)
steam rolls most of the time. (non mirrored maps are just bad design)

No, SSM and AB aren't mirrored either.

[ApeDosMil]

Considering the fact that there are more alliance players than horde as a total, and considering other than AV and IoC, the maps are mostly mirrored, why would horde win more? Skill? No. Just no to that. Skilled players are on both sides. More willing healers? Maybe, but I can't be absolutely certain that seals the deal. I have been in bgs where the horde had four healers and alliance had none, just to still win without. Racials? Maybe, someone has the numbers to support that. I do not. Morale? Ahh, maybe! Rarely do I hear strategies discussed, or any constructive/informative communication on alliance side. I had to explain to this CAPS LOCKer in temple of kotmogu that merely keeping two orbs isn't a win if we don't take the middle for the higher points. Lack of alliance pvp guilds and abundance of horde pvp guilds? That would bolster morale in individual match ups if more alliance guildmates rolled together in bgs, but by itself might not be concrete enough. I offer no answers, just questions. I hear no dialogue with the developers as to address this problem, though I wish they would. I do hear horde players trying to remove the alliance's only two winning bg's, yet alliance can only blacklist two from the 9 we are less successful at.

[Isolyphic]

Mastery needs bumped down to level 20. It's too heavily involved in classes nowadays which is breaking low level classes. It's extremely hard to tank with a Paladin at low level as they take alot of damage as block chance% and damage reduction from ShotR is not available. It was a rather painful experience to go through.

[getupkid55]

lol, Every Man for Himself.

Congrats on naming the only strong alliance PvP racial?

[Dristereau]

Just thought I'd add my experience of the last hour or so doing Alliance Random BGs. I've won two daily wins (Shammy/Monk) and currently trying for a third (Paladin). Paladin is currently on an 8 loss streak and I lost 3 trying to get the two wins on the other two. Its not been fun in the slightest, because the Alliance is actively ignoring the objective. Alliance Healer ran off from WW Flag whilst Horde were there and left me and one other DPS to die. EotS people don't call inc to bases or when fight in Mid even fight where the Flag spawns so Horde can chain cap.

Just had AV pop. Hope to Elune we win this. I despise playing the faction I currently do, and pride in it is nothing. I like Alliance races more, but a few minutes extra queing for a Win compared to an Hour or so trying to win one?

Won, thank Elune for that.. Need to make a Horde Paladin..

[Torais]

Alliance doesn't have an advantage in AV or IoC.

As someone that has played Alliance for 5 years I can safely say you are either lying or delusional.

[Bawl]

Even with some level of error in the record keeping those percentages are still pathetic. What'd you wanna bet if, or rather when, someone asks about them on the official forums that any blue responses will be the old fallback "our data is more accurate than yours" and "you cant see the whole picture" or some such nonsense?

I agree that there are imbalances in the game design itself (maps, racials, the blacklist, etc), but my guess is that most of it stems from what could be called social issues. Things along the lines of PVPers tending to favor horde (as it is perceived as more war-like or whatever), defeatist attitudes, and others.

Regardless of the reason though I wholly place the blame on the devs. Their battleground design philosophy hasn't changed to any great degree since battlegrounds were first introduced, at a time when they were little more than a fun distraction. Take pretty much any other game with team based PVP these days and it's immediately obvious how outdated their design is.

[Torais]

Congrats on naming the only strong alliance PvP racial?

Thanks to race changes, why do you need more then one?

[Deleted]

As someone that has played Alliance for 5 years I can safely say you are either lying or delusional.

Several easily defended chokepoints arent considered an advantage to buttonmashing FOTM rerolling plebs.

[Eldrad]

Isle of Conquest, on paper, is the coolest BG in the game. You have seige engines of different strengths and weaknesses, air bombardment, paratroopers, tower defenses, bombs, resources...
But when played it just turns into crap. It's really a shame. This BG could amazing

[Meil]

As an achievement hunter, they really need to do something about AV and IoC. I want to like IoC, because I love that siege-style warfare, but it's just awful now(and yes, there is always Wintergrasp, but most people seem to avoid it anymore).

[Minginging]

Congrats on naming the only strong alliance PvP racial?

It's worth mentioning because humans are the most popular race by a fair margin(and I would consider it the best one for some classes).

Anyways, I started leveling some hordies recently, mainly through PvP, and it has been a much more enjoyable experience than on my allies. If you can think of something to do while waiting in queues, it's completely worth switching to horde.

[Whiskra]

From my old experience with Alliance in battlegrounds, most of them are of the mentality that they don't care at all about winning any BG's, only about getting as many PvP points as possible as fast as possible. If they have to fight an upphill battle, many simply give up and encourage others to do the same.

[Deleted]

horde is more pvp active , has more and better pvp`ers. Leaving IoC and AV out of the discussion because their`re unbalanced, the percentage of horde wins is even higher from the start to late second half of every season. Alliance caches up on wins near the end of each season when horde players either gear up alts or just stop playing cause they have reached all their goals .

[Deleted]

Horde base vs. Alliance base

Towers vs. Bunkers

AV, the most unbalanced BG ever.

[Ryken]

Its really important to note the bias on both sides. To the people crying out about how AV and IoC favours alliance because of the map design, you have to realize that the problem is greatly noticeable because AV and IoC are blacklisted more than any other BG by the horde, to the point where queue times for AV and IoC are equal for horde and alliance, which cannot be said about any other BG. Also the size of AV and IoC are 4 times than others player-wise, which is statistically important because the way the data is gathered. For every bg win/loss, there are 80 entries statistically, and when combined with the fact that most other horde blacklist AV/IoC, you're looking at a bg where there are more horde queuing for it to AFK for the little honor gains. Faster queues for this bgs, more people fitting in them, more cycles, = more AFK honor and therefore more AFKers, which contributes more to the loss ratio for horde than any other bgs.

Combine all these statistically relevant things, the win/loss ratio on IoC and AV is no where near as telling as the whole story.