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  1. #1

    Static buffs should be removed!

    What do you guys think about removing static buffs that require you to use a resource to use? Examples would be slice and dice, druid roar, pally buff. They are really unsatisfying to spend points on and could possibly be a good target for button bloat.

    I know some people will try to argue that those buffs are what separate the goods players from the bads, but if your argument is based around player skill involving keeping a static buff up then I think you should re-evaluate your argument.

  2. #2
    I think this is a tough argument.

    On the one hand, there are some people who really enjoy that sort of "maintenance" gameplay, and it keeps those classes and specs feel somewhat rotationally different. It wouldn't be good to just have every spec be people reacting to procs.

    On the other, I agree that I don't feel like it's terribly engaging gameplay, and it means that those specs have "set-up time" that can be very frustrating. We often see Blizzard implementing specs or glyphs or talents that make those buffs "one and done" and they're essentially applied once and then stay up "automatically." This implies that Blizzard knows they're unpopular mechanics, perhaps, or that they don't place a great value on that kind of gameplay.

    Personally, I'd like to see changes made to the maintenance gameplay specs that made them more engaging and made spending resources on those buffs feel better.

  3. #3
    In a lot of ways, when Windwalker mastery was changed there was a clear implication of making Tigereye Brew close to the same as Savage Roar. +60% damage for 15 seconds and with 100% mastery (Easily reachable at this point in LFR gear) you could have it up almost 100% of the time. There would be a few seconds of downtime occasionally but it was off the GCD and costed nothing so they equalize a bit there. Almost nobody outside of Blizzard thought it was worth persuing so I tried it... yeah wasn't terribly fond of maintaining a buff so often, either.

    In the end, as Daetur said, a lot of people who play Rogues and Kitties and Rets feel that maintaining that buff is what separates them from being "generic melee #53857" and a lot feel it doesn't matter at all. Even if you feel that it isn't a sign of skill to keep them up, others will disagree with you and their opinion is just as valid.

    This won't really be met with a single side of opinions.
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  4. #4
    I completely agree. The buffs should not be kept in just for the sake of the gameplay 'style'. They could implement much more engaging abilities that would require maintenance and provide more than just a flat increase to damage. Perhaps a utility spell that effects party/raid?

  5. #5
    I almost want to say "you knew what you're getting into." Especially with the free 90 in WoD for those who don't have alts and how classes change over time. There are a few exceptions to this which is why I don't want to say this as an absolute, but, you know a ret pally needs to keep up inquisition and that a warrior doesn't.

    I think they should stay just because it makes classes different and its a pretty standard mechanic some do enjoy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimsonelement View Post
    I completely agree. The buffs should not be kept in just for the sake of the gameplay 'style'. They could implement much more engaging abilities that would require maintenance and provide more than just a flat increase to damage. Perhaps a utility spell that effects party/raid?
    We need less utility spells, not more. Too many and healing becomes boring.

  6. #6
    As a new ret, I actually enjoy having to watch Inq and determine whether or not I can squish out a Templars Verdict more before having to refresh the buff. I cant talk for other classes but I like it

  7. #7
    I think some of the buff spells could stand to lose a button. I get that they aren't really causing much bloat because you press it once and then you're done. But I remember when Trueshot Aura became a passive nothing changed. I think it would be okay for the same to happen to spells like Dark Intent or Mark of the Wild. There isn't any gameplay there and "remembering to rebuff" isn't really a skill.

    Rotational things like Slice and Dice.....that's more of a gray area that I'm not sure how to even approach. I'm not sure I'd weigh them all equally either. I look at things like Focus Fire and I'm not sure they really add anything of substance. I dunno.

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  8. #8
    On the flip side, self buffs like the last tier of Mage talents are annoying as sin. Refreshing that every 60 sec is awful.

  9. #9
    Bloodsail Admiral Annarion's Avatar
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    Uh yeah my favourite and most noticeable part of playing my rogue/ret/etc. Is looking ahead far enough to know that a buff that needs prep is coming close, and when to prioritize it. It might feel like a boring button to press because no numbers pop up, but the buttons provide enough of a bonus that you know why you're pressing them. Honestly if you don't like how a class plays, don't play it.

  10. #10
    they should be nerfed so that they are only a small dps increase (for good players to be "ahead") and not necessary in pvp.

  11. #11
    Yeah, they should also make right clicking do max theoretical damage, this game hasn't already been dumbed down enough yet

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Duridi's Avatar
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    It's hard to say anything useful here, but I do know that I personally consider Savage Roar boring. It might not be because of Savage Roar specificly though. It can be a combination of something else, making Savage Roar feel dull.

    I am also one of the people who has more fun when I have less tools, and when this is the case for the rest of the classes aswell. I find it far more enjoyable that we together make a full toolbox, instead of having close to a full one alone. It might be limiting on encounter design, but I honestly find the old way more fun, and I am pretty confident this is one of the reasons why I no longer enjoy raiding.

  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans Adramalech's Avatar
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    While I don't exactly mind these buffs... I wouldn't bat an eye if they were removed.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Annarion View Post
    Uh yeah my favourite and most noticeable part of playing my rogue/ret/etc. Is looking ahead far enough to know that a buff that needs prep is coming close, and when to prioritize it. It might feel like a boring button to press because no numbers pop up, but the buttons provide enough of a bonus that you know why you're pressing them. Honestly if you don't like how a class plays, don't play it.
    The problem is just setting up a weakaura correctly completely takes that foresight out of the equation, all you need to do is press the button when it tells you to.

  15. #15
    didn't read through the thread, so i'm sorry if someone braught this up already.

    i thought you were talking about some actual static buffs like aspect of the hawk from hunters where you activate it when you create your character and forget about it, but the stuff you called is actually what makes up for a more or less interesting rotation. it's annoying to have to reapply it everytime it's about to run out, but guess how boring the rotation would be if you didn't have stuff like that?
    again, look at us hunters: we have (besides marksman) just abilities that do dmg and nothing to look after. wanna know how boring it is to look at the focus bar and then to just press 1, 2, or 3?

    that's why marksman is the most fun spec a hunter has with the single problem of having not enough dmg in multi-target fights.

  16. #16
    Fluffy Kitten Thage's Avatar
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    An interesting though on buffs--what about adding synergy with active skills? For example, using Rising Sun Kick (or an equivalent MS skill) could grant Improved Legacy of the White Tiger (or equivalent buff from another class), which grants all allies in X radius of you Y Multistrike or Cleave for Z seconds. It would encourage class synergy and could make for some interesting combinations while still maintaining 'bring the player, not the class' since few buffs are still class-specific.

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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by zenyatta View Post
    On the flip side, self buffs like the last tier of Mage talents are annoying as sin. Refreshing that every 60 sec is awful.
    How is 1.5 sec cast for 15% more damage awful?

  18. #18
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    During the time i was hardcore raiding as feral tank with feral dps as offspec in WotLK i really liked it. It is fun to maintain during long encounters but tedius and boring to maintain during regular questing and killing normal mobs. A good change would be that theese abilities would extend by a certain ammount of time each time you get a killing blow, this would prevent them from being reapplied all the time while questing.

    Or maybie apply a buff on you that lasts 30-40 seconds when getting a killing blow. "Next Savage Roar will consume no combo points and will be cast as if it consumed 5"
    Last edited by Ryttge; 2014-01-22 at 09:17 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by rauta View Post
    How is 1.5 sec cast for 15% more damage awful?
    Admittedly it feels really, really odd. Those abilities make sense for rogues and ret pallies, but not really for mages.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryttge View Post
    During the time i was hardcore raiding as feral tank with feral dps as offspec in WotLK i really liked it. It is fun to maintain during long encounters but tedius and boring to maintain during regular questing and killing normal mobs. A good change would be that theese abilities would extend by a certain ammount of time each time you get a killing blow, this would prevent them from being reapplied all the time while questing.
    that actually sounds like a good idea o.O

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