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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by hullaballoonatic View Post
    Although there is the possibility that regardless of everything, rake spreading automatically will just be way too phenomenally powerful, which leads to your point that giving it to us by default in some capacity would buff our sustained aoe too much, which has never been something that is part of the feral kit, and would come at a significant cost.
    This is something to keep in mind for all changes. If you make it too easy then baseline DPS will be decreased accordingly. I will say though that manually Raking a bunch of adds is one of my pet peeves so I'm torn on that particular change.

    One thing is certain though, managing snapshotting is a LOT more interesting, challenging, rewarding and fun than manually Raking.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by mmokri View Post
    @Aseyhe I would call these abilities 'poor design'. They are Band-Aids to avoid weapon exploiting.
    I see it the other way around, they are part of a design that blizzard came up with in order to prevent those hybrids from needing to weapon swap to be effective. Even in pvp I find myself using weapon swaps to heal up.

    Weapon swapping to tranq even right now is quite annoying

    I would call feral weapon swaps being more beneficial than using an agi weapon when we have nurturing instincts "poor design"

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Kraineth View Post
    Weapon swapping to tranq even right now is quite annoying
    I found it's not necessary at all, with only HoTW and agility we have now in latest tier, it's still do quite a lot overhealing

  4. #184
    Weapon swapping unarguably is necessary for hurricane and wrath spam, however.

  5. #185
    Having gone back and re-read the OP, I really can't express my love for these changes enough; with the input from a wide variety of Ferals, and constant tweaks to the OP, this has become a real source of great ideas. Here's hoping that someone at Blizzard takes note of it and forwards a link to the relevant developers.

  6. #186
    I can't imagine blizzard cares, but it has been a very enjoyable journey nonetheless.

  7. #187
    I had wanted to stay out of this thread since it's Feral specific, but Cantor had to go and link it on twitter as a list of "good" ideas. Some of these are genuinely good, but others are just silly and will never happen.

    Hibernate works on all enemy types except players and player controlled creatures.
    This just doesn't make any sense for things that can't actually "sleep" like undead and mechanical creatures. Just like when Sap was changed to work on anything with a "brain" (in Blizzard's words), Hibernate would have to follow the same restrictions.

    Tranquility now ticks twice as often for half as much per tick.
    The combat log efficiency changes should be enough to tell you this will never happen. Plus, there's no guarantee Ferals will even keep Tranquility in Warlords anyway.

    Soothe removed.
    I don't see Soothe being removed unless dispellable Enrage effects are also gone. Might happen though.

    Effects that change the appearance of the druid (i.e. change into Mr. Smite) will persist through shapeshifting.
    Blizzard has said umpteen times this will never happen.

    Renewal now additionally increases maximum health by 30% for 20 seconds.
    Forcing all Guardians to take it. Thanks. Not. It's fine the way it is.

    DoC now dies a horrible death for Guardians, thanks for that. Not. Might of Malorne is completely broken for Guardians, anyone with half a brain can see that. "Welp just make the Guardian take MoM and we can drop 2 healers b/c melee no longer need healing. Ever."

    Incarnation is now worse for Guardians. Thanks. We lose a 2nd GCD due to the shapeshift every 30 seconds. Yeah, nope.

    You're not taking Bash away either.

    You're also not making me pick between Vortex and Typhoon.

    Nature's Vigil is also now totally broken and overpowered. That sounds like a great idea.

    Since Guardians can no longer take DoC because of the existence of MoM, the new 90 talent is worthless to us.

    BotA is terrible, although I guess you kept it b/c you didn't have a better idea of what to put there.

    Is Supernatural for real? A spammable 40% damage reduction on the target? Do you not see how broken that is?

    I'm done.

  8. #188
    I should probably have pointed out that talents for other specs are placeholders and probably not intended to be taken seriously. I'll edit the OP to reflect this. I have limited experience with other druid specs, and so how the suggested changes affect other specs is a welcome viewpoint.

    Tranquility is a great cooldown but does falter fundamentally mechanically. It has the potential for players to get ignored and die. I think will blizzard dropping hardcore raiding down from 25 to 20 and making everything flex, this lifts a significant amount of the burden on combat logs. Ferals losing tranquility would be an IMMENSE blow to feral raid utility.

    Effects that change the appearance of the druid (i.e. change into Mr. Smite) will persist through shapeshifting.
    They have said this is a systems issue they do not wish to spend time on. This is a wishlist fundamentally, however.

    I never said I'm removing might of ursoc for bears. They can have that ability and choose to have a second Last Stand, presumably. Also, I didn't suggest I would change Incarnation whatsoever for bears.

    You're also not making me pick between Vortex and Typhoon.
    Oh ho ho, but that's precisely the point.

    I appreciate your comments, though, and have adapted the OP appropriately.

  9. #189
    this lifts a significant amount of the burden on combat logs.
    It's not as big of a difference as you think it is, especially since Flexible modes (Flex/Normal) will potentially go up to 30 players.

    Ferals losing tranquility would be an IMMENSE blow to feral raid utility.
    That's the point. Non-Healers shouldn't have healer-strength cooldowns. Assume that all non-healers will receive the same treatment.

    This is a wishlist fundamentally, however.
    That's one of the fundamental problems with it. Mixing things that are literally never going to happen with really good ideas is unfortunately the best way to make sure it never gets taken seriously.

    Focus on a list of 5-10 really important things you'd like to improve. It will drastically increase your chances of getting something to happen.

    I never said I'm removing might of ursoc for bears.
    If you don't think every Guardian wouldn't take the "new" version of Renewal you have, I don't know what to tell you.

    I didn't suggest I would change Incarnation whatsoever for bears.
    This is purely a technical question on whether or not they would make a talent have different cooldown/duration for different specs. I suspect they probably could, but doubt they actually would.

  10. #190
    You also have some concerns with the changes and their affect on pvp, right?

    Non-Healers shouldn't have healer-strength cooldowns.
    This is an interesting discussion. Barring the fact that without heart of the wild, Ferals do not have a healer strength cooldown (especially since resto version has less than half the cooldown), I still disagree with that statement. Healing is just another form of damage mitigation, in a way, and I like that tranquility is niche, and involves a lot of choices like proper positioning, how you can make sure to get the full cast off, what other raid cooldowns do you use in tandem, etc. Also, that druids have a healer raid cooldown vs other classes offering pure mitigation based cooldown limits the homogenization of classes. Ferals would NEED to be compensated if they couldn't bring tranq, unless raid utility were slashed across the board.

    That's one of the fundamental problems with it. Mixing things that are literally never going to happen with really good ideas is unfortunately the best way to make sure it never gets taken seriously.
    Hm, you present me with an interesting dilemma. While I never expected this thread to even potentially "get something done" when I made it, you still make a thoroughly convincing argument. While the suggested change is one that in a perfect world certainly would go through, in our current one it is rather unfortunately expected to never. I'm not sure if my entire post reflects that general statement, and if so, whether or not it is worth changing into something more universal and valuable to blizzard.

    If you don't think every Guardian wouldn't take the "new" version of Renewal you have, I don't know what to tell you.
    I honestly think it would be a relatively interesting choice. There are certainly fights that don't require last stand at all much less two of them, while ysera's gift beats might of ursoc significantly in the amount of healing done over the course of the fight, which is a tangible lift on healer burden. One fights where you're constantly getting trained, and survival comes down to dodge chance and your ability to maintain savage roar at all the precise times, I can see how a second last stand would be immensely valuable.

    This is purely a technical question on whether or not they would make a talent have different cooldown/duration for different specs. I suspect they probably could, but doubt they actually would.
    If they did, they'd certainly have the ability to make each other spec's version more interesting.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh and yeah, I support removing all enrage dispels from the game entirely. They are not necessary for balancing pvp, and not an interesting raid mechanic. With mystic being uniform 20 people, blizzard can make more interesting raid mechanics and forego this enrage crap entirely.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And thanks for sharing the thread, cantor.
    Last edited by hullaballoonatic; 2014-02-03 at 07:25 PM.

  11. #191
    I honestly think it would be a relatively interesting choice.
    It's not. Especially not in a world where you're going to be tanking much more often than you are now.

    It's also worth noting that Blizzard has stated they aren't going to do wholesale revamps of the talent trees. I'd focus your energy on: Glyphs, Bloat, 91-100 abilities/buffs, level 100 talents, finding a way to deal with target swaps, and improving the really bad talents. Pushing for baseline NS isn't out of the question either I don't think, especially for Feral b/c of DoC. Removing Cyclone from it is also a good change, and in-line with their philosophy of toning down instant CCs.

    unless raid utility were slashed across the board.
    Bingo. Hence:

    Assume that all non-healers will receive the same treatment.

  12. #192
    I wouldn't mind seeing everyone lose mitigation cooldowns except healers, because I'm not a huge fan of having to manage so many and all their differing cooldowns at certain phases in a fight. How would that affect HotW, though? Ferals pretty much solely use it to tranq. Is it enough if it were only used to buff rejuv and healing touch?

  13. #193
    I'd just as soon have them keep everything as is but make it so our energy generates faster so the rotation has less downtime and still do the same amount of damage. I like the challenge of the rotation but I'd rather it be quicker instead of waiting on energy regen....even if it was a glyph where damge is reduced by x but energy regen is increased by Y (so you do similar dps but with a quicker playstyle).
    Last edited by Scarjack; 2014-02-03 at 07:45 PM.

  14. #194
    my wishlist:

    disorienting roar--> no longer break on dot /bleed dmg
    Incarnation: duration halfed, cooldown halfed.
    berserk: cooldown halfed
    Ravage: Count as bleed dmg: better burst in pvp -maybe with a short cd (try it against a paly..40k ravages isnt fun, when i see 140k rising sun kicks or 130k chimera shots )
    Hotw: also increase arcane dmg (lunar talent)
    Glyph Feasilence: also work in cat
    Stances: own gcd
    Dream of Cenarius: Reworked: increase dmg of all aktiv bleeds by 30% - X sec cooldown - easier to handle, maybe then an option for pvp
    Stealthspeed: penalty removed

    and we still need some sort of range cc for pvp- casting cyclone as feral is at momment no option. (give feral (only feral) hibernate on players with 6sec duration- 15sec cd would maybe fix this problem-remove clone for feral then)

    and: FEAR work like sheep, break instantly on dmg, removes all dots, you stand will while feared (cower animation??)

    EDIT: buff FURIOUS bite in some way. it should hit VERY hard- even on plate
    Last edited by Vularo; 2014-02-03 at 08:16 PM.

  15. #195
    Ferals pretty much solely use it to tranq. Is it enough if it were only used to buff rejuv and healing touch?
    Rejuv blanketing is still incredibly potent beyond just Tranquility. Plus you still have the ability to half-tank or turn into a ranged DPS (think of something like Atramedes or Nef). There's an argument to be made that fewer of these situations existed in MoP than Cataclysm, but you could turn that around and say with a fixed encounter size they could make mechanics like this more balanced again.

  16. #196
    Rejuv blanketing with heart of the wild would be a lot more potent in a world where the more typical raid cooldown didn't predominate. That is to say, most of the situations where it would be useful can be covered by a standard raid cooldown at smaller DPS cost, so if those other raid cooldowns were less abundant, then heart of the wild rejuv blanketing would be more useful.

  17. #197
    I think I could certainly dig an across the board reduction of raid cooldowns. I'd like to see healers using them dynamically, not as an expected means to survive certain phases of the fight.

  18. #198
    I can't imagine blizzard removing all raid cd's from DPS in a world where fights like Thok exist. It's already bad enough for guilds to need 4 healers in one encounter and 8 healers in the next, having enough raid cd's can sometimes replace a healer in certain situations.

    Unless blizzard makes a concerted effort to stop these stupid raid-wide AoE fights, we will always have the issue of needing 3-4 extra healers, even with a uniform difficulty size, blizzard does not balance tiers around the guilds that clear them in the first month. So you can expect to still see random fights that require a silly amount of extra heals, especially when you can't opt to bring every dps you have with a raid CD and sit the people without them since DPS won't have any.

    Hybrid healing would also have to go way down. Killing norushen with 2 heals on week 1 was only possible because we had 3 spriests using divine star for healing and shamans keeping down healing rain.

  19. #199
    Mechagnome Shifthappens's Avatar
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    now im a Feral my self (i also play monk) but this seems, to me atleast, "make my class op because i do not care about others" thread

    Only 2 things need to happen for Feral to be in good place all around, Shred Position requirement gone and savage roar gone, COMPLETELY, not made into passive. However they could make it into a more interesting mechanic like they did with Monks brews.
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  20. #200
    @Shifthappnes did you like cataclysm roar?

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