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  1. #201
    Ari, I hate to disagree but I didn't say every idea here was great; I said there were some interesting ideas, and there are, but it's very conceptual, blue sky stuff. Obviously it's a Feral thread so there's no reason to bring up the changes to the other specs, because they're not being focussed on with any degree of precision. I can really get behind the ideas presented here for target swapping/energy dumping help (Ravage) and the cleavey/AoE addition of Rake spreading through Swipe, and Swipe benefitting from Primal Fury (not sure if this would make us too good at maintaining single-target while AoEing however). I also think that the talent trees could use another look at so some of the playstyle/character power adjustments move earlier in the tree and the level 90 tier becomes more healing-based, but that may just be me.

    @Shifthappens; Shred positional requirement is going, and I think you'd meet a lot of people protesting if SR were removed – it adds another timer to watch for Feral, which is nice, and gives a way for PvP Ferals to proc PS whilst off-target, which is huge. Imagine playing a Feral without SR – it would be much more mindless, essentially Ripping and then Biting whenever you got to 5CPs, with little thought required for whether it was going to mean other timers dropping off. Some people may enjoy that, which is why it's being made into a talent option, but a large number of people also enjoy using Roar.
    Last edited by Cantor; 2014-02-04 at 09:49 AM.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    Non-Healers shouldn't have healer-strength cooldowns. Assume that all non-healers will receive the same treatment.
    I'd be fine with that, imo having to stand still for 8 seconds has become an increasing liability. That is of course if we can assume that other DPS also lose their raid cooldowns. I don't recall seeing any hints that Blizzard was moving this direction but I haven't really been paying attention lately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shifthappens View Post
    Only 2 things need to happen for Feral to be in good place all around, Shred Position requirement gone and savage roar gone, COMPLETELY, not made into passive. However they could make it into a more interesting mechanic like they did with Monks brews.
    I seem to recall a long time ago I almost always agreed with your posts but I could not disagree more with this one. Not that it would bother me if those 2 changes were made but there are many things much more important. Certainly ramp up time is far more important. Better on demand burst would also be quite helpful. I could go on but those are the 2 culprits that are most likely to get a Feral sat on certain progression fights.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Shifthappens View Post
    this seems, to me atleast, "make my class op because i do not care about others" thread
    Why? This thread has made many efforts to adjust feral to an overall shifting metagame, not just changes to one class we enjoy in MoP.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Shifthappens View Post
    now im a Feral my self (i also play monk) but this seems, to me atleast, "make my class op because i do not care about others" thread

    Only 2 things need to happen for Feral to be in good place all around, Shred Position requirement gone and savage roar gone, COMPLETELY, not made into passive. However they could make it into a more interesting mechanic like they did with Monks brews.
    This thread isn't mainly about feral being in "a good place". This is about what we would enjoy. This is about how we would go about fixing the flaws that feral has at this moment.

  5. #205
    As someone that actually mained a feral from wotlk to now, I'm assuming that we're going back to wotlk feral style with short bleeds and stuff unless they actually do a complete revamping which seems unlikley.
    So my wishlist is keep SR as it is right now, all this talk about removing it and that retarded passive SR talent is just spooky, we've seen feral just dosn't work with those low priority cata-like SR.
    I would almost bet that people that want SR gone are people that don't even main ferals or don't even raid above normls, I can understand some people that PvP want it gone but thats an easy fix through PvP set bonus.

    My other wish is to have a target switching CD or mechanic and improved single target CD that actually "scales" with gear, unlike the current berserk.
    The idea of making ravage the berserk energy dumping ability is just Incarnation 2.0
    Maybe something that turns all the physical abilities into a rolling dot like ignite or something that allows you to apply an infinite amount of rips and rakes for a limited time.

  6. #206
    #1 Feral wishlist item of all fracking time...

    Make Worgen cat form just Worgen form.

  7. #207
    One thing about SR is it has been one of Blizzards favorite knobs to turn to balance Feral DPS so I think it would be dangerous to remove it. I enjoy having SR be meaningful but 40% is a little overboard. One difference between now and LK was SR was dispellable so it was important for differentiating PvE and PvP damage.

    The only timer I find annoying is Faerie Fire, personally I'd like that one to be a little longer but that may just be me. I do think the timers on Rake and especially Rip have gotten too long. If Blizzard can't find a way to make FB competitive I'd rather they rework the timers so that we rarely use it.

  8. #208
    tbh, i would not turn down to go back a 8sec debuff mangel for our bleeds! but shred would need to make more damage and i think the mangel debuff should be personal

  9. #209
    The mangle debuff was retarded, even when it was 1 min. It would make it a lot harder to balance our multi-dotting vs our single target, and without adding any fun to the rotation.

  10. #210
    Rioo is right. The mangle debuff was removed when they consolidated all the pve debuffs that classes brought and found the bleed one to be a clear weak link.

  11. #211
    The Lightbringer Fahrenheit's Avatar
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    Some good ideas in your list OP.

    If I may be so bold as to boil my thoughts down to a sentance or two.

    Bake in savage roar, delete current feral version of might of malorne, give us a new feral version of might of malorne.

    Or, keep savage roar, but make it not the retarded 40% buff it currently is. Make it + energy regen or something more minor so we still have an out of combat option to use leftover combo points to proc NS in PvP, but don't feel like we're hitting with pillow claws if it falls off for a second or two.
    Last edited by Fahrenheit; 2014-02-06 at 08:30 PM.
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  12. #212
    I'll borrow from my posts on a different forum, I would like to see Haste much more valuable, including Haste effecting Feral dots.

  13. #213
    including Haste effecting Feral dots.
    IIRC this is already going to happen.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    IIRC this is already going to happen.
    Wow! that would greatly increase the likelihood of my playing WoD.

  15. #215
    you want soothe removed? apparently you've never played arena against a warrior with a warlock or priest on your team... l2p before adding stupid ideas to pointless lists pls.

    - - - Updated - - -

    this is clearly a pve list. makes no sense in a lot of ways for pvp so the whole thing is pointless. this is why blizzard ignores most players, because you have no idea what you're talking about.

  16. #216
    I am fully aware of the use of soothe in arenas. I'm saying pvp should not be balanced around an ability which is so boring. I very much did not ignore pvp in this list of changes, and many of them benefit the arena feral, such as more powerful burst, more consistent kill potential, improved survival, and more. Perhaps you are unaware that blizzard is working on a mass-scale reduction to Crowd Controls and their kin (like soothe), so I am curious as to why you are so quick to make accusations such as:
    you have no idea what you're talking about.

  17. #217
    I guess I like a lot of the ideas in this thread, although I feel as if Feral would be left in a weak spot PvP wise if they went through. For PvP everyone would probably go 3/2/3/2/1/X, Glyph of Cyclone, Glyph of TF and Glyph of Mass Entangling Roots.

    The weak spots of the spec would probably be:

    - Defensives: Ferals will have worse defensives than currently (better than 5.4.7 though), a department where we're already quite weak. See comparison:
    Currently: HotW (not nerfed), Ursoc, Tier 2, Barkskin, SI, Symbiosis
    WoD: Hotw (nerfed 5.4.7), NS, Tier 2, Barkskin, SI, Symbiosis
    That's us basically trading Ursoc for NS is a nobrainer, NS (no cyclone) is better. But since HotW is getting nerfed we'll probably end up better in WoD than in 5.4.7 defensively.

    - CC: Ferals hardcasting Cyclone isn't really working out very well this season... the number one reason ferals were abyssmal in TBC and most of WotLK PvP was the fact that we barely had any CC, PS instant proc changed this... However no one likes instant CC and thus it was removed and once again Ferals pretty much disappear from competitive PvP. But instead of just giving us back cyclone on PS in WoD, I suggest upping the range on Cyclone for ferals to 30 yards (by giving us the same PvP glove bonus as resto) or making it cast-while-moving, although I imagine that might be OP / unwanted by the community even if it turns out not to be OP.

    Also I see no reason to touch Hibernate, I understand your change was for PvE but for PvP I like the niche it currently has for hibernating ghost wolf / travel form / pets / ferals. It's a skillfull move that I see no reason to remove from the game, if you're good you avoid it. Also it differentiates good Ferals from bad Ferals when they face eachother in arena.

    - Stuns: You want us to have 1 stun on a 1 minute cooldown which is also our opener if I understood your post correctly. We're Rogues not Warriors, we need stuns. 1min CD Pounce (usable out of stealth) and Maim would suffice for our PvP needs. Just revert your Maim change (which is an obvious PvE change) and it'll be fine, just as it's always been, for PvP anyway. I realize however that it doesn't help PvE, but since I don't PvE I don't care, maybe you who care for it can come up with another solution?

    The good sides of our spec would probably be:

    - Damage/Burst: Just looking at the talents/changes this would probably give us one of the best bursts in the game, although it would need some ramping up (full bleeds as usual) the burst potential with stacked FB and the new suggested Incarnation seems sick.

    - Mobility: Feral mobility has historically always been the best of all classes in the game (maybe monks get close but that's it), and without any nerfs to it we still will be. Putting shapeshifts on a seperate gcd as you suggested might even be OP (If we're still allowed to shapeshift roots), although I have to say it would be a nice quality of life change.

    94 - Your Faerie Fire grants one combo point if used on a target at or over 15 yards away from you. Only applies in combat.
    Did you really think this one through? If I for example apply FF on a Rogue which Im not currently attacking in order to stop him from stealthing I would lose all my current combopoints only to gain one on the Rogue, thus making FF very useless in PvP. A simple fix would be to just make it so that FF adds the CPs only if the Feral already has CPs on the target.

    I have but one suggestion, a quality of life suggestion for Ferals.
    • Symbiosis has been removed for Feral Druids.
    • NEW! Level 94 Ability for Ferals only - Protector of Ancients
      The Druids skin hardens, reducing all damage taken by 100% while also reducing the Druids movement speed by 70%. Lasts 6 seconds.
    This would remove the need for ferals to play almost exclusively with only Paladins and Priests (for Bubble/Dispersion from Symbiosis).

    Anyways these are just my opinions. I fear however if all came true that Ferals would be OP. What I envision is great CC, great sustained Damage and great mobility. I think all these changes might give us that, maybe even to much (especially considering burst?).
    Last edited by ManneN; 2014-02-09 at 04:07 PM.

  18. #218
    You'll be happy to know that Blizzard is addressing symbiosis next expansion to provide mitigation abilities strictly. That combined with giving back NS, a more powerful renewal, and pvp ferals taking HotW, you have substantial survival capability, especially on top of 20% bonus healing to cat, PS+HT, barkskin, and survival instincts, I think the suggested model is substantial better in this area for the pvp feral than on live.

    Concerning CC, maybe you misread or maybe I didn't type it correctly, but the suggested model is to leave pounce and maim the way they are, remove Mighty Bash from the talent pool, and give maim a glyph that turns it into a 4 second stun. This way you can still (kind of) get mighty bash from the glyph, but ferals will drop from 3 stuns to 2. Hibernate is fine except when considering PS. You cannot avoid PS+Hibernate in feral vs feral no matter how good you are. If PS+Cyclone was broken (when it has a far shorter duration and range) then what is PS+Hibernate? That needs to be addressed. When Blizzard is cutting back on CC across the board (including removing some entirely) I'm rather certain Hibernate is one of the weakest links. I would still be fine if it stayed in.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by hullaballoonatic View Post
    You'll be happy to know that Blizzard is addressing symbiosis next expansion to provide mitigation abilities strictly. That combined with giving back NS, a more powerful renewal, and pvp ferals taking HotW, you have substantial survival capability, especially on top of 20% bonus healing to cat, PS+HT, barkskin, and survival instincts, I think the suggested model is substantial better in this area for the pvp feral than on live.
    If you actually read what I wrote it means we have the same amount of defensives as currently, only HotW is getting nerfed so it'll be slightly worse. 20% bonus healing to cat is already a glyph that everyone takes. PS+HT is already in the game and feral defensives are considered weak anyways and that wont change in WoD with these changes. Although Im not to concerned about it we'll be pretty much the same as currently, slightly worse but not much. But you can't be good at everything so it's fine anyway. NS vs Might of Ursoc is a decent trade though, since it synergises with HotW and can be used on other players aswell.

    Quote Originally Posted by hullaballoonatic View Post
    Concerning CC, maybe you misread or maybe I didn't type it correctly, but the suggested model is to leave pounce and maim the way they are, remove Mighty Bash from the talent pool, and give maim a glyph that turns it into a 4 second stun. This way you can still (kind of) get mighty bash from the glyph, but ferals will drop from 3 stuns to 2. Hibernate is fine except when considering PS. You cannot avoid PS+Hibernate in feral vs feral no matter how good you are. If PS+Cyclone was broken (when it has a far shorter duration and range) then what is PS+Hibernate? That needs to be addressed. When Blizzard is cutting back on CC across the board (including removing some entirely) I'm rather certain Hibernate is one of the weakest links. I would still be fine if it stayed in.
    Hibernate is dispellable, and only usable vs other ferals (and special cases vs shamans/restodruids), that's the major difference between PS+Cyclone and PS+Hibernate. In a Feral VS Feral situation the other Feral has it too, so its not OP if both have it, it just makes for fun mindgames with dispels and hibernates and deepens the Feral gameplay somewhat. To respond to what you said regarding PS+Hibernate being unavoidable, it certainly is avoidable by just leaving form and doing something else such as hardcast cloning the opposing feral, or stunning him... or purging him, you're not the only one on your team remember. Just need to keep track of the proc.

    Ferals dropping from 3 stuns 2 two is fine, although the glyph you spoke of should make it a 5 sec stun instead of 4, to mimic Bash. I would however suggest (and it's a thing that I like from the current talent trees) that you could choose between Disorienting Roar and Mighty Bash instead of having one stun replace another, making the choice between cc vs stuns instead of CP stun vs 1min cd stun.

    Also for the love of god please give us a new stance for incarnation: King of The Jungle in 5.4.7 (with your changes for WoD you could remove it again, but until then)...

  20. #220
    I love how people keep saying HotW was "nerfed" for Ferals when in reality it was a bug fix.

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