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  1. #261
    @Skadovsk
    Wouldn't it be an idea to make the talent you're suggesting make a portion of the damage of our direct damage abilities(mangle, ferocious bite, etc.) do some instant bleed damage? For example Mangle does 500% weapon damage as pure physical melee right now, but let's change that to let's say 400% weapon damage as physical melee and 100% bleed damage(just random number here).

  2. #262
    Instant bleed damage? Its something new. [sarcasm].
    @Skadovsk I think active cooldown with attack and combo point cleave is better design.
    Last edited by mmokri; 2014-02-22 at 04:05 AM.

  3. #263
    I liked your idea skadovsk, and included it in the OP as such:

    Feral
    Vicious
    Toggle Effect
    When toggled, Razor Claws applies to all damage at 75% value, but bleeds can no longer crit. Ferocious Bite consumes bleed effects in a 12 yard radius and deals damage to their targets equal to 75% of their remaining damage. All combo points are redirected to your current target. When toggled off, bleeds will remain unable to crit for 6 seconds.

  4. #264
    https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...45094958452736

    forget this wishlist, here is the real change that we all have waited for.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by RippedLife View Post
    https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...45094958452736

    forget this wishlist, here is the real change that we all have waited for.
    It's probably just going to end up being Pounce.

  6. #266
    or moonfire

  7. #267
    When Blizzard said they are removing roughly 20% of abilities per spec, it got me to thinking what else could be cut.

    It appears that blizzard removed sunder armor from arms. I assume they are wiping arpen mechanics across the board. Now that I think about it, even in pvp I don't feel I NEED faerie fire for the invis prevention. My bleeds already do that. Plus we would still have moon fire.

    I also figure motw can become passive.

    And this one might be controversial, but I think we can live without thrash.

    Also, amended the Vicious thing to just be a toggle for your mastery, which is a bit boring, but the rest of it was already handled by my version of Incarnation as well as my version of Ferocious Bite. After gutting it this way, it doesn't seem that appealing.

    Also, how would you feel if they completely removed Stampeding Roar from every spec?
    Last edited by hullaballoonatic; 2014-02-24 at 06:06 PM.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by hullaballoonatic View Post
    It appears that blizzard removed sunder armor from arms. I assume they are wiping arpen mechanics across the board.
    This would be interesting, and honestly okay with me.
    And this one might be controversial, but I think we can live without thrash.
    Our AoE is barely interesting as it is, and I like its synergy with Swipe, so... I'd like to keep Thrash if possible.
    Also, how would you feel if they completely removed Stampeding Roar from every spec?
    It should be Feral/Guardian only, but it's great utility that we should keep in some way.
    "I will say, I think it passing odd that I am loved by one for a kindness I never did, and reviled by so many for my finest act."

  9. #269
    Stood in the Fire Paloro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hullaballoonatic View Post
    When Blizzard said they are removing roughly 20% of abilities per spec, it got me to thinking what else could be cut.

    It appears that blizzard removed sunder armor from arms. I assume they are wiping arpen mechanics across the board. Now that I think about it, even in pvp I don't feel I NEED faerie fire for the invis prevention. My bleeds already do that. Plus we would still have moon fire.

    I also figure motw can become passive.

    And this one might be controversial, but I think we can live without thrash.

    Also, amended the Vicious thing to just be a toggle for your mastery, which is a bit boring, but the rest of it was already handled by my version of Incarnation as well as my version of Ferocious Bite. After gutting it this way, it doesn't seem that appealing.

    Also, how would you feel if they completely removed Stampeding Roar from every spec?
    I enjoy having a filler spell (Faerie Fire) for times in the rotation when I'm simply waiting for energy. I think it does have a good chance to get cut, but I wouldn't exactly be pleased to see it go.

    What exactly do you mean passive with MotW? As long as you have a druid in your group, the aura is applied? That kind of seems boring and removes the penalty of applying it after death.

    Thrash is interesting. It is easy to deal with in nature, but because of the high energy cost it makes you choose what to do in an AoE situation. I think this design works well and removing it puts us back to a simple number of targets equation.

    I haven't played another class this expansion so I can't really say how much Stampeding Roar helps others, but for me, I have many other ways of moving around. I could see it being chopped since strats (Malkorok HC) involve the use of it to remove debuffs and such.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Paloro View Post
    I enjoy having a filler spell (Faerie Fire) for times in the rotation when I'm simply waiting for energy. I think it does have a good chance to get cut, but I wouldn't exactly be pleased to see it go.
    Most melee classes have fillers that - you know - actually do damage. Also with snapshotting gone it's unlikely we'll be pooling energy as aggressively as we did in MoP.

  11. #271
    I was looking at the footage, and it looked like they gutted arms warrior aoe. They got rid of cleave and whirlwind. I feel like in this sense Feral can lose thrash. It's most interesting when used as filler in single target rotation, and I never feel I have much choice in how it behaves in aoe situations; you just always keep it up. I think the model I proposed for swipe spreading rake is more intriguing, and you can maintain swipes increased damage form bleed effects, too. It opens up a lot of ways you can deal aoe damage with only 2 abilities.

    And as Alpheus said, FF is a pisspoor rotation filler. Feral isn't a spec that looks to be gcd locked. It's about planning and efficient use of energy.

    But yeah, about MotW, as you expected. Just like Shaman's provide mastery, etc. True there isn't as big a penalty to death, but there still is something. Losing food buff is a big deal, and for casters most of their mana, and then obviously the time you spent dead that could have been otherwise used. I think dying in raids is plenty detrimental.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by hullaballoonatic View Post
    I was looking at the footage, and it looked like they gutted arms warrior aoe. They got rid of cleave and whirlwind. I feel like in this sense Feral can lose thrash.
    Keep in mind how much AoE Warriors can choose to talent for versus ourselves.
    Arms warriors don't use cleave and whirlwind anyway -- their main AoE is sweeping strikes slam. Blizzard probably took those away specifically because they aren't used.
    Also this.
    Last edited by Silent Earth; 2014-02-24 at 08:26 PM.
    "I will say, I think it passing odd that I am loved by one for a kindness I never did, and reviled by so many for my finest act."

  13. #273
    Arms warriors don't use cleave and whirlwind anyway -- their main AoE is sweeping strikes slam. Blizzard probably took those away specifically because they aren't used.

    Edit: their "swipe" is slam; their "thrash" is thunder clap.
    Last edited by Aseyhe; 2014-02-24 at 08:45 PM.

  14. #274
    Stood in the Fire Paloro's Avatar
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    FF might be a poor filler (since no damage), but I would rather not be forced to use a filler for a minor damage increase and make us more spammy. Right now, it's just something to hit after I already think through the next stages of the fight.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Aseyhe View Post
    Arms warriors don't use cleave and whirlwind anyway -- their main AoE is sweeping strikes slam. Blizzard probably took those away specifically because they aren't used.

    Edit: their "swipe" is slam; their "thrash" is thunder clap.
    This is a good point. We certainly don't neglect Thrash, but at the same time I still debate its worth in the proposed model.

  16. #276
    If no other class get FF i think its kinda important to keep it because its only 3(?) other classes that can apply it. And right now the other classes suck at it if there is targetswitching
    Myself would not be sad if they remove hibernate, innervate and sooth for ferals.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Paloro View Post
    FF might be a poor filler (since no damage), but I would rather not be forced to use a filler for a minor damage increase and make us more spammy. Right now, it's just something to hit after I already think through the next stages of the fight.
    Rogues and WW monks already behave like this, at least as far as their rotations are concerned. The main issue we're facing isn't that Faerie Fire is a bad filler, but that we're being punished and thus discouraged to use our main filler - mainly mangle - because it wastes both of our most critical resources (energy, CP) while giving minimal damage. Faerie fire was never meant to be a 1st-class filler, it's just what we ended up putting in between periods of downtime (especially from a SimC APL perspective) so that the downtime wasn't completely uneventful (and perhaps wasteful by letting FF drop on the target).

    Furthermore, the main reason why wasting energy and CPs is bad is because our dps does not scale with our energy and combo-point generation speed. Our dps currently scales with how big of a snapshot rip and rake have and there's nothing you can do that will cause a major improvement (or detriment) in your dps while the bleeds are up. Some of this is already alleviated by snapshots being gone but I still think that we need something else done to our finishers (or combo system in general) to promote cycling 3->5 CPs more aggressively. Once (/if) this happens, mangle will return to its original intent of being our de-facto "filler".

    Again, hullaballoonatic's original post tries to fix a lot of these issues but it's just too much content to wrap my head around at the moment to even be able to napkin down some math to find any OP or harmful emergent properties with a suitable rotation.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Aseyhe View Post
    Arms warriors don't use cleave and whirlwind anyway -- their main AoE is sweeping strikes slam. Blizzard probably took those away specifically because they aren't used.

    Edit: their "swipe" is slam; their "thrash" is thunder clap.
    lol? I'm leveling my warrior in arms now and I'm using those for aoe coz there nothing else at low levels

    even in pvp I don't feel I NEED faerie fire for the invis prevention. My bleeds already do that. Plus we would still have moon fire.
    you are so bad in pvp...FF is much easier to use it have no cost and it is range

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by baver View Post
    If no other class get FF i think its kinda important to keep it because its only 3(?) other classes that can apply it. And right now the other classes suck at it if there is targetswitching
    Myself would not be sad if they remove hibernate, innervate and sooth for ferals.
    Warrior, Rogue, Hunter, Druid. Of those Hunter, Guardian, and Feral (effectively due to Energy) do it passively. Not a big deal for either Moonkin or Resto to maintain it. Only Rogues and Warriors get the short-end of the stick.

  20. #280
    Stood in the Fire Paloro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpheus View Post
    Rogues and WW monks already behave like this, at least as far as their rotations are concerned. The main issue we're facing isn't that Faerie Fire is a bad filler, but that we're being punished and thus discouraged to use our main filler - mainly mangle - because it wastes both of our most critical resources (energy, CP) while giving minimal damage. Faerie fire was never meant to be a 1st-class filler, it's just what we ended up putting in between periods of downtime (especially from a SimC APL perspective) so that the downtime wasn't completely uneventful (and perhaps wasteful by letting FF drop on the target).
    I think you lost me here. I can't tell if you are pushing for complete homogenization or if you would prefer a different class' playstyle.

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