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  1. #161
    Not to mention the conditions for that faerie fire bonus. First you have to be a certain distance away and you have to be in combat. I imagine it used more by pvpers, but also crafty raiders.

    DoT snapshotting is being removed for silly reasons like necessity of add-ons to track dot strength. Blizzard could easily implement this into the ui, but would rather remove snapshotting altogether as the easiest way of addressing the unintentionally complexity burden it places on aspiring players. On the other hand, many ferals greatly enjoy this gameplay, and I think the talent tree is the perfect place to offer that choice. It's important to note that tiger's fury and dream of cenarius (assuming they are staying) will still be "snapshotting" abilities.
    Last edited by hullaballoonatic; 2014-01-30 at 07:34 PM.

  2. #162
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
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    Dot snapshotting is something I have mixed feelings about but the more I think about it the more I actually think blizz is going the right direction. Especially with the shift towards rppm trinkets it can be extremely frustrating to pop cds but then have your trinket proc 5 seconds after applying them. I know there are addons that combat this but rppm is not a very intuitive system so tracking when your trinket should proc can be difficult. On the other hand I like the gameplay of popping dark soul on my lock and spreading dots.

    My biggest concern is that this will ruin any proc or on use trinkets for dot classes since we are balanced around dots doing their damage, well, over time. I just hope they balance it right.

  3. #163
    There's a very good reason why you can't TF during berserk. If you could TF during berserk, the standard procedure during berserk would be to empty your energy bar, hit TF, and empty it again (with berserk still up), effectively making that TF twice as strong. While it's certainly possible to balance around this effect, I really can't see a compelling reason to make this change. Our burst damage would have to be balanced around the assumption that we are doing this, and if you thought it was hard to spend all your energy during berserk now, imagine doing it with TF thrown in.

  4. #164
    Maby next expansion they fix the energy problem we have now tho, sucks to not having energy for any fb at all in the start of a expansion and later on we get energycap

  5. #165
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
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    Well it's meant to be that way, maybe not to that extent but you're supposed to feel like you can do more as gear progresses. Ferocious bite is just weird cause it's the third feral finisher. I don't think there's anything wrong with that though.

  6. #166
    About faerie fire - if you use it from range, it can proc trinket. Meanwhile you are going to be in range for next 4-5 seconds. Its dps loss. Your others rdps skills are moonfire and wrath and dk symbiosis. Thus its worth to just watch your rdps do their job.
    Last edited by mmokri; 2014-01-30 at 11:58 PM.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by mmokri View Post
    About faerie fire - if you use it from range, it can proc trinket. Meanwhile you are going to be in range for next 4-5 seconds. Its dps loss. Your others rdps skills are moonfire and wrath and dk symbiosis. Thus its worth to just watch your rdps do their job.
    You're assuming trinket procs will be important. Right now that's only an issue because of snapshotting. In WoD not so much.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by mmokri View Post
    About faerie fire - if you use it from range, it can proc trinket. Meanwhile you are going to be in range for next 4-5 seconds. Its dps loss. Your others rdps skills are moonfire and wrath and dk symbiosis. Thus its worth to just watch your rdps do their job.
    You are the most mobile spec in the game and you're telling me it takes you 4-5 seconds to cover a distance of 15 yards?

  9. #169
    I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of OoC giving a bleed boost - it would provide similar gameplay to what we have today, which I enjoy, but it's also being removed for good reason; it forces you to sit at a fairly high level of energy and intentionally avoid spending CPs just in case you get an Omen proc (or trinket proc today), which is not very intuitive - I've seen plenty of new Ferals getting their bleeds up and then dumping points/energy into Bites because sitting on CPs doesn't feel right. Personally I'd prefer for FB to feel like less of a waste - we're likely to press it more in WoD because, with snapshotting gone, sitting on points becomes less necessary, but it's still a fairly weak ability in comparison to our DoTs, and has very little interaction other than the increased crit chance on bleeding targets and the Rip extensions sub-25%. The idea of buffing it to help with Cleave fights is a good one, but perhaps the Swipe-spreads-Rake change is enough here, and FB gets a more single-target-orientated buff?

  10. #170
    Here is my wish(already posted this in sticked topic).
    Its to steal mastery from sub rogue.
    Last edited by mmokri; 2014-01-31 at 04:41 AM.

  11. #171
    Mechagnome Kildragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmokri View Post
    Here is my wish(already posted this in sticked topic).
    Its to steal mastery from sub rogue.
    Why? Imo mastery is a great stat as long as it's useful which the feral mastery is. If feral got a sub like mastery everything would be balanced around it. Since blizz clearly has a vision for the spec (hint it's bleeds) the current mastery works just fine.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cantor View Post
    I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of OoC giving a bleed boost - it would provide similar gameplay to what we have today, which I enjoy, but it's also being removed for good reason; it forces you to sit at a fairly high level of energy and intentionally avoid spending CPs just in case you get an Omen proc (or trinket proc today), which is not very intuitive - I've seen plenty of new Ferals getting their bleeds up and then dumping points/energy into Bites because sitting on CPs doesn't feel right. Personally I'd prefer for FB to feel like less of a waste - we're likely to press it more in WoD because, with snapshotting gone, sitting on points becomes less necessary, but it's still a fairly weak ability in comparison to our DoTs, and has very little interaction other than the increased crit chance on bleeding targets and the Rip extensions sub-25%. The idea of buffing it to help with Cleave fights is a good one, but perhaps the Swipe-spreads-Rake change is enough here, and FB gets a more single-target-orientated buff?
    Coming from a lock perspective I didn't think about that really. The "hardest" dot to reapply is doom cause of the fury cost but dealing with a bleed and a combo system makes reapplying that dot far more difficult. Seeing how feral is mainly a bleed spec I have no issue with rip being much higher in priority than bite with bite working as a cp dump. The problem comes up when you forego your cp dump and let them go to waste because it's better to sit on them for procs.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantor View Post
    it forces you to sit at a fairly high level of energy and intentionally avoid spending CPs just in case you get an Omen proc (or trinket proc today), which is not very intuitive
    This is why I put it in as a talent choice. This way ferals will choose this type of gameplay, understanding the unintuitive nature. Also note that with ravage occupying a spot of high energy for low cp generation, you won't be running to cp capping and still using shred like you do today, if you set it up intelligently.

    I also added a new glyph to assist with this gameplay. Glyph of Tiger's Fury is a major glyph that gives tiger's fury two charges, but with an increased cooldown to 36 seconds.
    Last edited by hullaballoonatic; 2014-01-31 at 06:14 PM.

  13. #173
    Bleed snapshotting is also an anti-versatility mechanic, since the need to keep resources pooled (especially combo points) makes it much more costly to switch targets. This is why my thought was to pit it against versatility talents (in my vision on the other page, rake spreading for AoE and moonfire for target switching) so you pick it for single-target fights and pick another talent elsewhere.

    I'm still skeptical of this arrangement, however. Maybe we don't need a separate talent for pure single-target damage.

  14. #174
    Though temporary bleed buffs are best utilized with rip in the current meta, if rake can be spread, then bleed buffs on thrash and rake will be especially potent as well. I don't think it's as limiting in versatility in the proposed changes as it is currently.

  15. #175
    Very well thought out and put together post. I have a few things to add and a few things that would need discussion.

    First of all with the talents Tier 1 is and has been fine for feral.

    Tier 2, I would reduce the hp gain to 20% and maybe give cenarion ward some love as it is still on the gcd with maybe a 10% reduce damage taken.

    Tier 3 has some nice ideas but i think DoC would require some work to fit in that gap.

    Tier 4 has a nice balance between simple/aoe, burst damage with some ramp up before you can use it (maybe some number tweaking is needed), and sustained damage.

    Tier 5 is a good cc tier but i would replace roar with mass roots and it feels better suited. (maybe make roar a guardian cc)

    Tier 6, i would change heart of the wild slightly so we can use rejuv in cat form and obviously remove the ability to buff hurricane/wrath damage.
    Blossoming touch sounds good but given its name and to pay homage our resto spec I would make it add a hot component to HT like riptide/eternal flame instead of cleave healing as that doesn't feel very much like a druid. Nature Vigil is fine as it is.

    Tier 7 the OoC talent seems interesting but seems to simliar to DoC. Maybe make it what our 2 set currently does (increase direct damage).
    4 extra seconds on rip sounds very boring when comparing it to the other 2 talents. I would rather see this talent effect FB in some way (possibly making FB the only way to extend rip? by 1 second per combo point with no cap?) this will make FB great and the skill will be knowing when to stop trying to extend and to reapply a new rip.
    I like replacing cps with rage and the option to save 100 rage to quickly apply 2 rips to new targets but i'm not sure about the constant 3 rage per second.

    Apart from talents you have made some interesting decisions with some of our spellbook a lot of which are great ideas for example:
    Shred replacing mangle
    Ravage and OoC to work well together for small gains
    OoC to the rppm system
    FB using a fixed energy (even tho i suggest more then 25 maybe 30-35)
    Thrash generating cps, extending rip. costing less and less damage is ok. maybe just add the combo point and extending rip and leave it where it is tho.
    Swipe rake spreading is very nice idea requiring energy pooling before rake so you can spam swipe as fast as possible. Also makes cleave fights more fun. plus priaml fury on swipe would be a nice change.
    Removing the ability bloat

    Some of the things i am not yet on board with is:
    FB gaining a cleave component through rake ticks (make it gain like 5% cleave per swipe and i may prefer it)
    FF generating combo points at range (its a free cast and a boring 1 at that i dont think this will help it)
    Combo Generators increased crit chance. The gap between finishers and generators is already too little make finishers do more damage and generators do less (Excluding insane snapshotted rip!)

    But overall a great read and some excellent ideas i hope some of this gets heard by blizzard!
    Sorry for any misinformation or spelling mistake

  16. #176
    I think I will make the following change to the FB additional damage:

    Each shred increases the damage of your next FB by 10%, up to 50%. Each swipe causes your FB to deal an extra 6% damage to all enemies within 7 yards, up to 30%. These effects stack.

    Thrash generating cps, extending rip. costing less and less damage is ok. maybe just add the combo point and extending rip and leave it where it is tho.
    With the added damage of spread rake, thrash doesn't need to hit as hard as it does, and shouldn't burden the aoe energy pool as much as it does.

    4 extra seconds on rip sounds very boring when comparing it to the other 2 talents.
    I agree, and I would like something better, but your idea doesn't fit my criteria very well. I'm want that talent to be a general throughput that does not alter the feral general offensive rotation drastically.

    remove the ability to buff hurricane/wrath damage.
    I would love to do this if I could think of an elegant way. Unfortunately, the simplest way to fix this is to remove weaponswapping from the game, but this harms warriors pretty considerably.

  17. #177
    still thread needs to be rename `some guy's feral wod wishlist`

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by hullaballoonatic View Post
    remove the ability to buff hurricane/wrath damage.
    I would love to do this if I could think of an elegant way. Unfortunately, the simplest way to fix this is to remove weaponswapping from the game, but this harms warriors pretty considerably.
    Heart of the wild currently increases spell damage by 320% and spell healing by 100%, so it would be simple enough to alter those figures on an individual basis.

    Also if you want to remove the advantage of weapon swapping, you could look at how Blizzard did it with enhancement shamans (mental quickness), ret paladins (sword of light), and prot paladins (guarded by the light). Those classes explicitly don't benefit from direct sources of spell power.

  19. #179
    @Aseyhe I would call these abilities 'poor design'. They are Band-Aids to avoid weapon exploiting.

  20. #180
    I feel like it's necessary, though. I added the same conditional to nurturing instinct with the exception of hotw. It should still be a powerful cooldown and capable of ranged utility for ferals if necessary, but it won't work with weapon swapping anymore.

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