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  1. #1
    Scarab Lord Gumboy's Avatar
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    I'm going to miss 10 man raiding

    To preface, I am not talking about difficulty, or challenge or setting up a composition, I am going to miss 10 man raiding because it feels more personal with the people you raid with. I know all nine other people in my raid, we are all friends and do things outside of raiding together. Its going to be weird swelling a roster with 10 new faces, (Well you know what I mean) less time for inside jokes and the like, at least in the beginning.

    I don't mind swapping to 20 man for any technical reasons, or raid performance or anything like that. I just like smaller groups (And no, not five mans; they are nowhere near the same thing) The only "technical" thing I won't like is my raid frames taking up more of my UI with more people :P


    Anyone else of the same mind on this? Its kind of strange to try to type out why, I just greatly prefer raiding with ten people.
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  2. #2
    I am Murloc! Rorcanna's Avatar
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    Yep, more people leaves more room for drama, so I miss 10-mans at times myself.

  3. #3
    The Patient cynsacat's Avatar
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    I'm totally with you on this, OP. The guild I'm in (that I run with two other friends) is a very personal guild, where most of us have been together a while, are on a first-name basis, know what to expect from one another in terms of everything from raid encounter mechanics to general interpersonal conduct. We maintain a very specific environment. Adding ten more people and attempting to keep that same kind of relaxed/casual feel, especially while pushing Mythic content, is going to be that much harder. I mean, Hell, it's already a challenge with just ten, managing needs and preferences and staying fair-minded but also holding people to a high caliber of common courtesy. But come twenty? I'm dreading it, too. A lot of that is going to be out the window, and it's going to be less like friends and more like management.

    So, you're definitely not alone.

  4. #4
    I am Murloc! Taftvalue's Avatar
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    they should add 10 man only mythic raids like Zul'Aman.
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  5. #5
    Dreadlord Zvinny's Avatar
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    I'm glad to be going back to the epic feeling of larger raids. When my guild was still a 25, we managed to still have a personal feeling. Granted, there were some people who were better friends with some more than others, but thats true in pretty much any group of people.

  6. #6
    Yup, gonna miss it as well.
    Was in 25s from start of TBC to start Mop and 10 man entire mop, I personally prefer 10 man a lot more to 25 man.
    Much less room for drama and arguments, it just feels a lot more relaxed and more intimate.
    Also the fact that individual responsibility is far greater in 10 man then it ever was in 25 man is really appealing.
    Last edited by Kuriisu; 2014-07-27 at 10:06 AM.

  7. #7
    Definitely gonna miss it too. Especially as someone who talks in chat a lot, it's harder to pick out things when it's more people talking in chat :x
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  8. #8
    I thought I would, but I joined back a 25 man guild at the end of TOT and I would never go back.

    And I was in 25 until the end of Firelands where I said I'd never do 25s again lol.

  9. #9
    I used to be the same primarily only doing raiding 10 man but after joiing a 25 man guild I couldn't go back really, as much as I understand what everyone means when they say its more personal etc which to some degree it is, the only real difference is you have 15-17 personal friends instead of 10 as most 25 man raiders wil know each tier those last few spots in the group are always filled with those folk that only last a tier or quite half way through.

    I think the only problem for 10 man guilds expanding now is finding people whom are at the same level of play but also gel well with the group. Its hard trying to get into a group of 10 friends and becoming the 11th friend kind of thing but it'll happen eventually.

  10. #10
    Bloodsail Admiral Narna's Avatar
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    R.I.P 10 Man Raiding.

    I am not looking forward to 20 man raid leading, but who knows, it might be fun.
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  11. #11
    I'm going to miss it, too - but I raid to raid, not to socialize. And static size Mythic means tighter tuning, and with that size being large enough that it's reasonable to assume a Mythic group has a diverse range of classes/specs, fights are simply going to be more interesting.

    But, who knows - although I've done the heroic 25-player thing before, maybe in WoD not having the cozy 10-player group on the highest difficulty will wind up being a dealbreaker for me (although if I stop doing anything - whether mid/high-end raiding, or raiding altogether, or WoW altogether - it'll be because of multiple reasons, with probably the lion's share having to do with my non-WoW life).

    Luckily with the separate lockouts there will always be 10-player heroic/normal for funzies with the more intimate group size.

  12. #12
    Scarab Lord Gumboy's Avatar
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    This is going to sound kind of stupid but one thing I will miss about 10 man raiding as well is being completely and utterly screwed by comp. yeah its a negative, but having to change your haste cap and actually know your class just that little bit more will be missed by me :P (As a resto druid missing the 5% haste raid buff)
    You're a towel.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumboy View Post
    This is going to sound kind of stupid but one thing I will miss about 10 man raiding as well is being completely and utterly screwed by comp. yeah its a negative, but having to change your haste cap and actually know your class just that little bit more will be missed by me :P (As a resto druid missing the 5% haste raid buff)
    Playing below theoretical optimum is an under-appreciated meta-game in WoW. For a long time I considered starting a site/blog/whatever where I'd focus on guides for middling to "low end of the high end" raid guilds - like, focused on folks who will certainly clear (in MoP terms) normal mode, but maybe (or even probably) won't full clear heroic mode, and thus simply don't have access to the full "BiS" ... dealing with, as you mention, non-optimal group comps, etc, etc.

    But I have too much else going on / am lazy, so that never materialized. But, yeah, it's been my experience for most of my WoW career to have to extrapolate from the guides made by these uber high-end raiders. Of course no theorycraft goes into "full normal BiS with a couple/few heroic pieces" gear sets. You get stat weights for full BiS and that's it, typically.

    It'd probably be a somewhat niche market ... even middling raiders probably only want info from the highest-end raiders, rather than folks sharing their own experiences. Oh well.

  14. #14
    I also greatly prefer the atmosphere of a smaller group, as well as feeling like I have more personal responsibility for the group's success or failure. But I can understand why the pushed for the larger group size.
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  15. #15
    I'm also going to miss 10 man raids. I find healing is so much more fun in 10 mans.

    In 10 mans, my decision who to heal and which spell to use had much more impact on saving someone since it was just me and another healer, where in 25 man there are more healers around so my particular performance is much less important to the success of the raid.

    Also in 10 mans I had to use much more of my toolkit including single target spells where in 25 mans its aoe healing snipe fest.

    But who knows, with the proposed triage changes in WoD healing might turn out to be more similar to the current 10 mans than the current 25 mans.

  16. #16
    I'm glad to be going back to the epic feeling of larger raids.

  17. #17
    Bloodsail Admiral dashflash890's Avatar
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    I won't miss 10man. 10 man raids are so dead to me. So much wasted empty space in a raid that it doesn't feel like I'm in a raid. It feels like I'm in a dungeon. I prefer a large scale with a lot of players raids not a glorified dungeon. But thats just me.
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  18. #18
    You will be able to raid with any raid size you want in the WoD raid difficulty called "heroic".

  19. #19
    Pit Lord Adoxe's Avatar
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    Good riddance. Won't miss it at all, but that's just me. I used to love 10 man, refused to join any 25m guilds or raids, but few months ago I decided to give it a proper shot, and oh boy...everything turned around, now I refuse to do 10man, in fact I missed out on my guild's first heroic Garrosh kill because I told em to temporarily replace me because I refuse to raid 10man.
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  20. #20
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    After moving from 10-man leading to 25-man leading (been doing it for past 6 months)... So bring on Mythic!!!

    Only thing I will miss is the fact that in 10-man the roster "movement" wasn't that big and on some cases you felt more closer to the people you raided with. That feeling will be bit tougher to obtain with a larger roster.
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