Critique Our Raid

[Deleted]

Hey Guys,

We are a pretty casual guild (currently 11/14 normals) made up of some old school raiders and friends.

We made a new year resolution to try and improve as a guild!

So here is our "look at our logs and tell us what we are doing wrong" post

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XpQyBKzwLkhbFmMN

I am our floating player who will DPS or Heal depending on the fight.

Thanks a lot in advance.

And here is hoping we don't get trolled to hard

[Larynx]

Can't really help you all that much, but I want to thank you for using Warcraft logs. I hope it catches more traction.

[Deleted]

Can't really help you all that much, but I want to thank you for using Warcraft logs. I hope it catches more traction.

I really love Warcraft Logs!

Combat Replay View is actually amazing (and helped us with Thok quite a bit).

Once we have expression editor (or something like it) I think it will be amazing.

Here is the same raid on world of logs in case some people prefer!

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/agzigxhee0pfocz2/

[Deja Thoris]

I only had a quick look but nothing stood out as shocking, in fact for an 11/14 guild it looked better than I expected. My advice (since you are on a short raiding week) is to extend and try to kill garrosh on normal as a group. It will give you some challenge and then after that you can cherry pick some easier HC's (Norushen!)

Since you're on a short week study the fights you plan to tackle (though flex helps a lot here I guess) so that you don't spend precious time licking ironstars and other silly stuff.

[Deleted]

Both Ele shamans shouldn't be using PE. It's way under value vs EB (pref) or UF (at high gear) unless the Fire Elemental can cleave for the majority of it's uptime. In SoO, it's pretty much never, and I use EB for every fight except IJ and Malk, for which I use UF.

For the resto bits, It's hard to tell re: your healing, just because you weren't doing stack fights, but it looks like you're doing a Riptide blanket, HST, and spot heals for the rest. Try to save your healing tide for 'better' danger zones. Make sure you're Unleashing before Healing Rain, and try to keep that down.

Your rogue should consider gemming red sockets as Agi/Haste if they're going to stay Combat. More energy, more DPS, more fun. If they play Sub mainly, the gems are great. You can also tell them that dropping Rupture from the Combat rotation is fine, as it's only a 2-3% DPS gain if executed perfectly, and a stronger focus should be put on maintaining Revealing Strike.

Your shadow priest should drop FDCL and start using Shadow Word: Insanity. It's a big playstyle difference, but, especially on low movement or predictable movement fights, it's going to come ahead in a big way. VT uptime also needs some serious work.

[potatoe]

I'm partly just playing around with WCL here.

dark shaman
shadow priest active time is low on burst targets

shadow priest should do more damage to dogs on the pull
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...age&target=177
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...age&target=180

shadow priest should do more damage to slimes. as a ranged dps it should be much easier to have high active time on them.
5.82% active time compared to the dps warrior's 15.65% and the rogue's 13.23%
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...age&target=187

galakras
imo, it's best if tank can worry about mitigation and keeping bonecrusher factures off NPCs (other raid members can help with that too though).
having to kill the banner because dps aren't doing it is a needless distraction.

is the dps warrior assigned to kill the banners? cuz he did 7/8 of them.
the druid tank did the other 1/8.

props to the warrior if not assigned.
rogue could probably help out, maybe ranged too.
tank could help them tab target more easily by temporarily moving adds away from the banner when it spawns.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...age&target=117

interrupts of chain heal.
I may be reading this wrong, but it looks like only 3 chain heal attempts happened, and they all got interrupted.
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...4true%24146757

Looks like the bonecrushers did over 60 million damage to NPCs.
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...ability=146901
Looks like their fracture was not interrupted at all (not sure if WCL is showing that right)
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...6899&by=target
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...&by=interrupts

2 tanks and 1 warrior dps got hit by High Enforcer Thranok's Skull Cracker
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...ability=146849

The flamestrike damage could be 10x higher (100 million instead of 9 million) if you stack adds in it.
That would be equivalent of having another rogue dps.
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...ability=148848
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...ability=147431

iron juggernaut
looks like you got 2/3 crawler mines each time, and sometimes got 3/3.
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...463&target=151

[Blueobelisk]

Have you ever considered raiding more than two days a week?

I'm serious.

[Traxion]

Both of your tanks need a lot of work as far as active mitigation goes. In short both of your tanks are taking a lot of avoidable damage and sitting on rage that's not even being used.

Max theoretical uptime on Savage defense is about 66%. If you don't know what it is then it increases dodge by 45%. This should be used on any boss that's not a magic dealing boss. His other option is to use Frenzied Regen which will convert rage into healing. Tell the druid that he can stack savage defense back to back for longer durations. It's acceptable to have a lower savage defense uptime if he's using it on frenzied regen enough but he's simply not. What this means is that there's rage not even being used to keep himself alive. He can still use both and find a good mix but he needs to use them A LOT more.

The same pretty much holds the same for the warrior. Warriors have shield barrier which places a dmg absorb shield on them and shield block which will block all melee attacks for 6 seconds and can also be stacked back to back. Shield block is for melee hitting bosses and barrier is for magic bosses. Warriors are a little different in that they want more balance between those two and it's not a bad thing to have shield barrier up on a melee boss as he should be able to predict dmg and absorb it with it (falling ash hitting on dark shamans for example). Your warrior is actually not even using shield block at ALL. I try to tell my warrior tank he should aim for a 40% uptime between both barrier and block combined.

In short, tell your tanks to use their active mitigations more and be smart about the use of each in different situations. Use frenzied regen right after a big hit, shield barrier right before one and maintain savage defense and block as needed.

[Feali]

Have you ever considered raiding more than two days a week?

I'm serious.

Pretty much this.

Other than that: Your Rogue should use Potions, improve his Revealing Strike up time and use his Vanish for Shadow Focus. And tell him to use Elusiveness instead of Leeching Poison.

[Khorm]

Your fury warrior isn't using Bloodthirst enough. I saw the IJ and Sha fight which both went for 5 minutes. Bloodthirst has a cooldown of 4.5s and has No.1 priority in nearly all situations so you use it quite a bit, however in both of those fights he only used it around 40 times when he could of used it over 60.

[Deleted]

Both Ele shamans shouldn't be using PE. It's way under value vs EB (pref) or UF (at high gear) unless the Fire Elemental can cleave for the majority of it's uptime. In SoO, it's pretty much never, and I use EB for every fight except IJ and Malk, for which I use UF.

For the resto bits, It's hard to tell re: your healing, just because you weren't doing stack fights, but it looks like you're doing a Riptide blanket, HST, and spot heals for the rest. Try to save your healing tide for 'better' danger zones. Make sure you're Unleashing before Healing Rain, and try to keep that down.

Yeah we have been playing around with the Ele T90 Talents, never really came to a firm conclusion.

When we looked at our sims it worked out UF --> PE --> EB but we found it did not really work out like that, will give EB a go again, I have only started DPSing again over the last couple of months, not sure me head is back in it yet

Resto is my main spec and I am pretty happy overall (always happy to take critique though) I only blanket riptide on some fights (Thok, Iron Juggernaut and Dark Shaman I do find it quite useful though).

I do slack on keeping HR down (I am good at Unleashing before it though) I don't find HR super amazing in 10's (especially the fights I healed this week) but will try keeping it up more!

- - - Updated - - -

Have you ever considered raiding more than two days a week?

I'm serious.

Not really no, real life does not allow that for quite a few of our guild

I would really like to thank everyone for the input so far, I will redirect everyone in the guild to this thread!

Tonight's raid - http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/3ZgMvFXRYjHyDcGC

Thanks in advance for any more comments!

[Deleted]

I'm partly just playing around with WCL here.

--snip--

I find this all super interesting!!

Will play around with WCL more

[Deleted]

Both Ele shamans shouldn't be using PE. It's way under value vs EB (pref) or UF (at high gear) unless the Fire Elemental can cleave for the majority of it's uptime. In SoO, it's pretty much never, and I use EB for every fight except IJ and Malk, for which I use UF.

Where do you get your information I wonder... I'm curious because EB loses its value the better your gear is. Even with some fights where there's cleave (Sha, Garrosh), it's actually quite nice to use UF because the singletarget bit is the biggest part of the fight. I would actually like to quote Tickle who I consider a very very good shaman and eventhough these tips are for HC SoO, they are pmuch valid for normal aswell unless you're quite undergeared and forced to used EB because of that.

Immerseus - I use PE. You get way more out of it at the beginning between the boss being up the longest then and then on the adds. EB is too slow to kill the blobs anymore, since they die so quickly. I also tend to just CL down the little blobs in the 2nd phase because LB just takes too long to cast - maybe LvB or ES if surge procs or I have LS stacks. It's tough to parse very high on this anymore though because our locks kill stuff so fast.

Protectors - We stack them and cleave, so I use PE. If you're still keeping them spread, UF would be fine, but don't waste it on the adds that die fast, and cleave off the bosses onto the adds if you can. Also, don't bother targeting the big adds on the outside during Sun's phase, because the little adds that come in share health with them. Just CL spam.

Norushen - Really depends on when you go down and how much you're able to cleave.

Sha - I use UF. There isn't enough cleave for PE to be worth it, so it's mostly a single target fight, which means UF wins.

Galakras - Yeah, PE. UF could work, too, if you're more concerned about the end burn, but I like PE.

IJ - UF, hands down. Remember, this is a single target fight. PE isn't as strong on single target. I can see PE being useful for the damage reduction of earth ele if healing is an issue, but otherwise, UF will win.

Dark Shaman - PE, as Songare said. Lots of cleave at the beginning. It's not quite as strong on the adds later on because they move (so the ele has to chase them), but it's pretty huge at the beginning.

Nazgrim - I can't make up my mind here, because we keep changing when we hero. We usually hero during a berserker, but not always. EB works because of all the target switching, but because it loses value and the adds generally stay up long enough, UF can work, too. PE means he's chasing adds around unless you sit him on the boss.

Malkorok - UF. I used PE during progression to help with damage reduction, but it's a single target fight, so UF wins.

Spoils - There should be enough cleave for PE to win.

Thok - I heal, but if I eled for it, PE. UF would also work. EB is BAD.

Siegecrafter - PE or UF. We have our eles on the boss at all times to cleave down (and slow, so glyphed EQ) crawler mines. PE is great for that, but UF would also work. Id on't ever do belts, but I would imagine UF would be your friend there.

Paragons - UF. Cleaving is just padding here, though I do weave in CL to get LS charges. This is a single target fight. PE could also work on progression for extra burn on the bosses that need to die faster, or for damage reduction if you're soaking aim (I used it on progression).

Garrosh - UF. Single target is by far the most important here, especially during progression.

[miffy23]

I had no IDEA about this function (combat replay view) or this site. My new go-to, awesome stuff.

As for your guild: we do 2 days a week ourselves, currently at 4/14 hc - looking at your raw hps/dps you can definitely clear normal by those measures right now. I'd suggest extending, extending, extending. Just go for the full clear and then try gearing up a few IDs trying to clear faster and faster, then you can look at heroic if you feel like it.

Most of your time on normal will be spent on Garrosh by far, so plan ahead for that.

[Deleted]

In addition to what everyone has already said, do something about your priest. He is underperforming on pretty much every fight. Let him look up some stuff about priest rotation, reforges, etc.

[Deleted]

Where do you get your information I wonder... I'm curious because EB loses its value the better your gear is. Even with some fights where there's cleave (Sha, Garrosh), it's actually quite nice to use UF because the singletarget bit is the biggest part of the fight. I would actually like to quote Tickle who I consider a very very good shaman and eventhough these tips are for HC SoO, they are pmuch valid for normal aswell unless you're quite undergeared and forced to used EB because of that.

My 'information' is simply from my own experience, and I tend to not follow what they suggest, and put down some really good numbers.

EB is super underrated in the community at a high gear level, but as long as you can balance your Mastery to be under 87.4% (or 87.34% w/ H 2/2 PBI or 87.32% w/ HWF 2/2 PBI) then heavy into haste, the stats from it are all quite beneficial, and it's a significant amount of damage in it's own right.

UF also has a higher skill cap to it's usage. Unless you're running Mastery over that 'soft cap', even wasting a single UF buff on a Flame Shock could make EB w/ moderately good usage equal to or better than UF. The same thing if you get unlucky multiple times and let the buff expire without using a single LvB.

Looking at a few of her suggestions, I think there's a lot of missed opportunity for EB to be used well and a LOT of PE usage without much thought to the duration of the fight, instead of a single moment it can cleave. One perfect example is Siegecrafter. Right before the 1st empowered mine comes down, I can EB the boss, and no matter what proc I get, it's a a huge DPS gain. You can do the same thing w/ Dark Shamans, with a pre-combat cast of EB for the opener cleave, then an EB mid-geyser before every set of adds, instead of only having PE for the opener, and a SINGLE set of adds.

Hell, on Garrosh, I do more single target than her w/ less gear. (Can't compare kill to kill since I kite Iron Stars in P4, but they're both post-Hero P3 wipes.)
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...et=69&fight=17
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...mage&target=26

[Itakas]

Your fury warrior isn't using Bloodthirst enough. I saw the IJ and Sha fight which both went for 5 minutes. Bloodthirst has a cooldown of 4.5s and has No.1 priority in nearly all situations so you use it quite a bit, however in both of those fights he only used it around 40 times when he could of used it over 60.

To add, he is TG on armory and he uses Bloodbath on all fights, Stormbolt should be used in most fights in SoO, he can also switch to arms in some, but up to him to do some research about that.

[Deleted]

Have you ever considered raiding more than two days a week?

I'm serious.

Really? Just learn to play... My guild is actually 11/14HC (wowprogress.com/guild/eu/kirin-tor/Mir%C3%A4ge/rating.tier16_10) with two days a week, 20:30 to 23:30 each time.
You make me laugh quite hard you know

[Deja Thoris]

Really? Just learn to play... My guild is actually 11/14HC (wowprogress.com/guild/eu/kirin-tor/Mir%C3%A4ge/rating.tier16_10) with two days a week, 20:30 to 23:30 each time.
You make me laugh quite hard you know

You should spend your spare time learning manners then.

[miffy23]

You should spend your spare time learning manners then.

Quoting for emphasis.