World of Logs is dead - why aren't more people moving to Warcraft logs?

[Tinkertee]

I bet that when AMR launches their combat log app it will probably swallow the other log websites.

Why?
* AMR already is well known and has big marketing
* They are promising a kickass user interface far cutier then anything around (there's a preview there).
* Ingame addon
* Advanced (paid) data mining

[shanthi]

I bet that when AMR launches their combat log app it will probably swallow the other log websites.

Why?
* AMR already is well known and has big marketing
* They are promising a kickass user interface far cutier then anything around (there's a preview there).
* Ingame addon
* Advanced (paid) data mining

I'm not sure that AMR will necessarily swamp any other logging sites, especially among dedicated raiders. But I think that AMR has some potential synergy to leverage in having both a spreadsheet service as well as (in the future) a combat log service. A lot of advice for healers, for example, is in the vein of "If X percent or more of your healing is Y spell, then you should get at least Z mastery" and other such activity-based rules. To determine that, you need to check the logs. AMR, if you upload logs with them, can check the logs for a player while instituting such logic in their spreadsheet.

Obviously, people can already do this for themselves...check their logs in WoL or, now, WCL manually and adjust their spreadsheet. But AMR can do it more seamlessly. And it'll lead to higher quality advice for more casual raiders who don't have the time dedication to do the log diving themselves.

[Deleted]

I bet that when AMR launches their combat log app it will probably swallow the other log websites.

Why?
* AMR already is well known and has big marketing
* They are promising a kickass user interface far cutier then anything around (there's a preview there).
* Ingame addon
* Advanced (paid) data mining

AMR has to do this or they go out of business. In WoD secondary stats are going to be close for every spec, and haste caps are (nearly?) non-existent. Gemming and enchanting are virtually meaningless...

[Annoroth]

I bet that when AMR launches their combat log app it will probably swallow the other log websites.

Why?
* AMR already is well known and has big marketing
* They are promising a kickass user interface far cutier then anything around (there's a preview there).
* Ingame addon
* Advanced (paid) data mining

AMR is well-known for being trash. I don't think that would help its marketing as a log parser.

[SlippyCheeze]

AMR is well-known for being trash. I don't think that would help its marketing as a log parser.

I think you mistake "reputed to be trash amongst scrubs" with "reputed to be trash full stop" here. Many people complaint about the tool, and the recommend, eg, ReforgeLight which does *exactly* the same math -- so either they like the default weights better, or they are somewhat mistaken about how to use the tools at their disposal.

That reputation would continue to discourage some-but-not-all people from using their services. I don't believe it would be as significant as you suggest.

[Ryme]

They have a mixed reputation at best, and that preview did nothing to excite me; it seems to have less functionality than WoL or WCL (but it's not even in beta yet, so too early to call judgement) - on top of that, it's got paid features that will no doubt be standard elsewhere.

[Flukz]

We're currently logging on both and would probably just use WCL once enough people move to that.

[Odina]

AMR is well-known for being trash.

The tool is as good as the person using it let's it be. If you are trash at using it then it will be trash if you know how to use it then it's amazing.

A good user goes to simc get's his stat weights plugs in custom stat weights and sets everything up to how it should be for them > out of the box cookie cutter settings.

AMR is not trash the people that can't use it properly are!

[Ryme]

The tool is as good as the person using it let's it be. If you are trash at using it then it will be trash if you know how to use it then it's amazing.

A good user goes to simc get's his stat weights plugs in custom stat weights and sets everything up to how it should be for them > out of the box cookie cutter settings.

AMR is not trash the people that can't use it properly are!

To play devil's advocate -I just gave it my exact stat weights, it still gets my BiS wrong - not far off, three items incorrect, but still incorrect. What other free services does it offer? I'd like to explore it if I can but the Blizzard armory API is down at the moment.

[Obsession]

AMR has to do this or they go out of business. In WoD secondary stats are going to be close for every spec, and haste caps are (nearly?) non-existent. Gemming and enchanting are virtually meaningless...

Yeah, this is extremely true. It's hard to compare the two based on one being a working model and the other being an alpha, though.

They're trying to fill a niche that exists because WoL sucks but will probably be too late.

[Annoroth]

The tool is as good as the person using it let's it be. If you are trash at using it then it will be trash if you know how to use it then it's amazing.

A good user goes to simc get's his stat weights plugs in custom stat weights and sets everything up to how it should be for them > out of the box cookie cutter settings.

AMR is not trash the people that can't use it properly are!

AMR doesn't market itself for experienced users. I know how to find my stat weights (but that's why I have Reforgelite). It's meant to be a plug-and-play for new users who don't even know what SimC is.

And it monumentally fails at that.

[nightfalls]

AMR doesn't market itself for experienced users. I know how to find my stat weights (but that's why I have Reforgelite). It's meant to be a plug-and-play for new users who don't even know what SimC is. And it monumentally fails at that.

Unfortunately, AMR's reforging algorithms (given custom weights) are now better than WoW-Reforge (dead site) and better than ReforgeLite. They also are to my knowledge the only working CharDev-like tool out there anymore.

So yes, their BiS algorithms are horrible, and their default weights are still most likely trash, but if you use custom weights and want to set up CharDev-type profiles, they are your go-to right now. While they were behind a bit in Cataclysm, they've surpassed a lot of their competition since.

[Obsession]

Unfortunately, AMR's reforging algorithms (given custom weights) are now better than WoW-Reforge (dead site) and better than ReforgeLite. They also are to my knowledge the only working CharDev-like tool out there anymore.

Wowhead does this, it's not as straight forward or as easy to use as CharDev was. They could definitely improve the ease of use, but it does it.

[nightfalls]

Wowhead does this, it's not as straight forward or as easy to use as CharDev was. They could definitely improve the ease of use, but it does it.

I've used their comparison/planner interface. It's not really what I'm looking for nor does it give me easy to work with data.

[Deleted]

AMR is well-known for being trash. I don't think that would help its marketing as a log parser.

Its as trash as its user who, in your case I suppose, is unable to edit default stat weights.

- - - Updated - - -

AMR doesn't market itself for experienced users. I know how to find my stat weights (but that's why I have Reforgelite). It's meant to be a plug-and-play for new users who don't even know what SimC is.

And it monumentally fails at that.

The default stat weights are good enough for the average user. The average user is going to get the biggest output gain from one thing directly under their influence while playing the game: playing better.

[lakhesis]

Unfortunately, AMR's reforging algorithms (given custom weights) are now better than WoW-Reforge (dead site) and better than ReforgeLite. They also are to my knowledge the only working CharDev-like tool out there anymore.

So yes, their BiS algorithms are horrible, and their default weights are still most likely trash, but if you use custom weights and want to set up CharDev-type profiles, they are your go-to right now. While they were behind a bit in Cataclysm, they've surpassed a lot of their competition since.

Even their default algorithms aren't too bad tbh.

I'd be extremely suspicious of their trinkets, but from the sims I've run on a few specs of DPS toons their defaults are typically within 1% of a custom weighted character (and I'm talking about custom weights that properly account for stuff like simc->amr amplification trinket handling & target # variation).

Fix trinkets, use the most sensible default weight & for 99% of people it'll be your skill holding you back rather than the non-custom stat weights.

Edit: For logs tho?

Who knows. We've only seen WoL & Warcraftlogs... and warcraftlogs is clearly the superior product atm. AMR will have an uphill task to make something powerful, although they may manage to make something more user friendly.

[Kihra]

Competition is always a good thing, so I wish Mr. Robot all the best. I don't have their talent for UI design, so they are likely to create something prettier than what I can do.

I created Warcraft Logs mainly because as a heroic raider, there were things I kept wanting to do with World of Logs but couldn't. Although it's available to anyone to use, the point of the tool is to be able to analyze things that you couldn't in WoL. A specific example was Dark Animus, i.e., the need to be able to see specific instances of targets like "Anima Golem #5" so you could really tell who was on the wrong target.

Combat Replay is another example of trying to get information out there that wasn't available in WoL, i.e., who was out of position on Thok.

At its core, WCL - although usable for all forms of raiding - is first and foremost designed to be a tool for Heroic raiders to use. That means I am unlikely to include features like "Was I playing my class properly?", since this doesn't really interest me. At the Heroic level I assume you already know how to play your class, and I think it's a losing battle to keep up with 30+ specs and rotations that are going to change from patch to patch anyway.

I'll give people the power to create queries for whatever they want to see, and if I implement the ability to share those queries easily, then experts will be able to build and share those things as their classes/specs change. Then people will be able to look at those to analyze their performance.

[Annoroth]

Its as trash as its user who, in your case I suppose, is unable to edit default stat weights.

- - - Updated - - -

The default stat weights are good enough for the average user. The average user is going to get the biggest output gain from one thing directly under their influence while playing the game: playing better.

I have no idea how you think I'm unable to edit default garbage stat weights, while quoting and respond to a post where I state I can. Nice reading skills.

[Deleted]

I have no idea how you think I'm unable to edit default garbage stat weights, while quoting and respond to a post where I state I can. Nice reading skills.

They're two separate posts in case you didn't see.

You mention Reforgelite to get your stat weights. That is not how I get my stat weights. I sim mine. And Reforgelite does not support gemming and enchanting last time I checked.

Knowing how to edit your stat weights isn't the same as editing your stat weights correct.

Moreover it is not going to be the major point where the bad to average player is going to get the most output improvement from since, as I said before:

The default stat weights are good enough for the average user. The average user is going to get the biggest output gain from one thing directly under their influence while playing the game: playing better.

AMR is marketed at the average user. You know, the person who killed Garrosh Normal in january? Or is still progressing on him? That guy. You're not him. Stop pretending you are.

[Annoroth]

They're two separate posts in case you didn't see.

You mention Reforgelite to get your stat weights. That is not how I get my stat weights. I sim mine. And Reforgelite does not support gemming and enchanting last time I checked.

Knowing how to edit your stat weights isn't the same as editing your stat weights correct.

I never said I got them from Reforgelite, I said I know how to get them (from simc), so I'm capable of using reforgelite to reforge. Big difference there.

Moreover it is not going to be the major point where the bad to average player is going to get the most output improvement from since, as I said before:

AMR is marketed at the average user. You know, the person who killed Garrosh Normal in january? Or is still progressing on him? That guy. You're not him. Stop pretending you are.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...achievement#81

Does January 27th count as January?