New battle rifle

[hakujinbakasama]

Surprised they don't just go with the new 556xi. I know I am.

[Yvaelle]

Around 10lbs with a magazine in, not too heavy unless you have noodle arms.

Ah, that's not much more than the G36 then It's probably just an association I made because the 550 looks like HK's PSG1.

[Cybran]

Germany, Switzerland and France aren't the worst to produce for.

You won't produce for them. We all will have to buy from them.

http://www.thepressproject.net/artic...-of-corruption

“I accepted so many bribes that I can’t remember all of them,” former defense procurement official confesses during marathon testimony that implicates German, Swedish and Russian companies in a web of corruption with tens of millions of euros moved between German and Swiss banks.

Antonis Kantas, the former deputy director of the MoD’s procurement office, has admitted to accepting a bribe worth 1.5 million euros from a Greek retired military officer representing companies including the German arms manufacturer Rheinmetall over two procurement programs. He also confessed to receiving a 1.7 million euro bribe for a third defense contract.

The creation of such a large and centralized fund for arms and military spending will create a lot of oportunities for corruption which is common among defense contractors. One can only imagine the amount of money that lobby groups are throwing at politicians in France and Germany.

[Bluesftw]

wait for those:

[Deleted]

Lets hope someone finally has the balls to say bugger off to the USA and adopts the 6.5mm rounds, they are far superior to everything else out but the USA insists on using their 5.56.

[DockyWocky]

Agree with you Rich. The 5.56 is a shit round. I suppose its ok for squirrel hunting or something, but its not an effective people stopper. The 6.5 is quite fantastic, and also leaps and bounds better than the 7.62x39 someone was trying to push.

The SIG 550 is up there for sure, but I'd also toss out the HK 416. Look nearly exactly like the US's M4, but much more reliable. Gas-Piston rather than Gas-Blowback, so its basically the reliability of an AK with the accuracy of the newer assault rifles.

[Deleted]

Agree with you Rich. The 5.56 is a shit round. I suppose its ok for squirrel hunting or something, but its not an effective people stopper. The 6.5 is quite fantastic, and also leaps and bounds better than the 7.62x39 someone was trying to push.

The SIG 550 is up there for sure, but I'd also toss out the HK 416. Look nearly exactly like the US's M4, but much more reliable. Gas-Piston rather than Gas-Blowback, so its basically the reliability of an AK with the accuracy of the newer assault rifles.

The HK 416 is also an excellent weapon but also expensive, any idea what the unit cost is?

[Deleted]

Lets hope someone finally has the balls to say bugger off to the USA and adopts the 6.5mm rounds, they are far superior to everything else out but the USA insists on using their 5.56.

The fact is that there are no official documents that the 5.56mm NATO caliber has failed in any NATO Army. On the contrary, we have official documents stating that there is no problem with the lethality of the 5.56mm caliber at all. Most NATO nations even agree that the next generation of small arms weapons by 2020 will still be using the 5.56mm NATO caliber.

Summary

There is no problem with the lethality of the 5.56 NATO caliber.

Most NATO nations are confident with the lethality of their 5.56mm and 7.62mm rounds.

To increase small arms lethality, nations must better train their soldiers.

Soldiers must “train as they fight.”

If nations want to engage targets at long range, then it is not about rifle caliber, projectile or barrel length, it is all about more training.

Yeah, training training training.. Training won't help if its the bullet that fails to deliver. This guy speaks of hitting central nervous system or causing massive bleeding but in a combat situation who the heck has time to aim and hit right in to the head, single shots or short bursts aimed at the "central mass" are fare more common.

Sure you can aim and hit very accurately if theres no much steel flying in the air.. All of us like to preserve our precious lives and taking cover is hammered into muscle memory during the military training.

5.56 isn't as good as 7,62 in forest or bush area. Every damn twig can change its trajectory while 7,62 is less prone to this. This is how some feel in Finnish army because we have 7,62 cal assault rifles and army is "natoing" everything from sock to tank. 7,62x39 recoil is bigger and full auto makes you shoot sky lol

edit;quotes

[DockyWocky]

Rich: It is more expensive for sure. We outfitted my old unit with them when I was in, and I think it ran about $4800 US per.

I wouldn't advise adopting it as the go to infantry weapon (though it would be fantastic), simple because of its price, but for SOF applications that's really not too absurd.

Whisky: In the abstract, there's 'nothing' wrong with the lethality of the 5.56. There are however better rounds out that retain the accuracy of the 5.56 with more stopping power; the 6.5 Grendel that Rich mentioned being, in my opinion, chief amongst them

My biggest gripe with the 5.56 is that the muzzle velocity is so high, it generally just punches through people. While that's great and all, I want my round to tumble and kill the target then and there. We always carried match-grade 'open face' rounds (read: hollow-points) to achieve this with the 5.56. The bigger rounds have more weight to them, lower muzzle velocities, and tend to have more stopping power.

There is nothing inherently awful about the 5.56 NATO round, but there are better options out there is all I'm saying.

[Deleted]

Yeah, training training training.. Training won't help if its the bullet that fails to deliver. This guy speaks of hitting central nervous system or causing massive bleeding but in a combat situation who the heck has time to aim and hit right in to the head, single shots or short bursts aimed at the "central mass" are fare more common.

Sure you can aim and hit very accurately if theres no much steel flying in the air.. All of us like to preserve our precious lives and taking cover is hammered into muscle memory during the military training.

5.56 isn't as good as 7,62 in forest or bush area. Every damn twig can change its trajectory while 7,62 is less prone to this. This is how some feel in Finnish army because we have 7,62 cal assault rifles and army is "natoing" everything from sock to tank. 7,62x39 recoil is bigger and full auto makes you shoot sky lol

edit;quotes

This is what happens when people that have no experience tells the Military how things should be done, just train harder, why didn't we think of that.........

[Jackmoves]

Rich: It is more expensive for sure. We outfitted my old unit with them when I was in, and I think it ran about $4800 US per.

I wouldn't advise adopting it as the go to infantry weapon (though it would be fantastic), simple because of its price, but for SOF applications that's really not too absurd.

The norwegian army use the 416, they had some weird issues with them though, at least at the start around 2009-2010. Im not sure if it was the rifles or the ammo they blamed, I believe they phased in a new type of "environmental friendly" type of bullet around the same time, either way they reported widespread health issues, throat pains etc after extensive useage.

That has probably been sorted out now though
4500 is a tad expensive though, going by the project plan, they plan to spend no more then 70m on 20k units in a first order, so $3500 per unit.

Edit here is one article about norways issues, in norwegian though... so you gotta use google translate.
http://tablet.dagbladet.no/2009/03/0...helse/5158015/

[Mavett]

Lets hope someone finally has the balls to say bugger off to the USA and adopts the 6.5mm rounds, they are far superior to everything else out but the USA insists on using their 5.56.

There is a word around that IWI is testing X95 with 6.5 grendel and .300 BLK for the IDF, as part of lessons learned in 2006 and 2008.
If the shift will happen some might follow and it will catch up.

[Deleted]

Produce our own. We could give it a nice name and everything!

[Jackmoves]

Produce our own. We could give it a nice name and everything!

Costs a lot more to design and develop something from scratch, its much more cost effective to buy a proven weapon system off the shelf.

[plat0nic]

ak-47 tried and true, don't need anything better

[jugzilla]

ak-47 tried and true, don't need anything better

It is the best rifle for an unprofessional army.

[Kellhound]

FN FAL. To hell with intermediate (aka wimpy) rounds.

[Lightwysh]

.308/7.62x51 would be my choice. I hate the 5.56 I think even the 7.62x39 is a better round then 5.56.

Why not a FN SCAR?

[Adam Jensen]

It is the best rifle for an unprofessional army.

I hear its good for Spray N Pray tactics.

[Deleted]

ak-47 tried and true, don't need anything better

Its so good even the Russians stopped using it after only 12 years.