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  1. #1
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Exclamation [Mage] Stop. Think. Read -then- Post.

    Dear lovely mages,

    I care about you all. Many of us do and slave away on these forums, in-game, in private messages, and even more to share information we discover about the class. Many of us wish to answer all your questions, provide guidance, and help to teach you fish rather than just hand you a fish.

    However, unfortunately, a lot of ridiculous topics get posted. Particularly lately. This isn't to insult anyone who has come to the forums looking for answers, but it's to help issue some kind of warning about certain topics.

    The topics listed below should never be started. If you start a thread with one of these topics, I will no longer make an effort to answer you, and you should not be surprised if the thread gets locked or some rotten fruit gets thrown in your face:

    -Should I wear 4pc?
    -Should I track icicles?
    -Is mastery better than haste for fire?
    -Haste or mastery for frost?
    -Which spec is highest DPS?
    -*raidbots*
    -BiS Lists
    -How to use Alter Time
    -Opening rotations
    -What spec for leveling?
    -What spec for CMs?
    -What spec for -anything- else?
    -*simcraft*
    -BBoY or KTT?
    -What ilvl do I switch from x spec to y spec?

    I am happy to spend 2+ hours per day helping folks out, like with spreadsheet stuff, analysis, etc. But 90% of my time is spent answering questions that have already been answered. So, please check out the following threads for answers before asking any questions:

    Advanced Visual Frost Guide + Gear Flow Chart, answers all 2pc/4pc/trinket/stat questions for frost

    Posts by Cycobi, for rulings on Arcane Mage stuff-- by searching for an expert's username, you can see a nice summary of the things they've answered already! Try searching for other notable mages like Kuni, voltaa, etc for knowledge-rich posts

    Vykina's Fire Mage Thread - has almost all fire related questions and answers already in it!

    Zagam's calculations on PBoI- very useful bookmark so you don't have to constantly ask me

    AMR's Haste Chart, get your answers on your own!

    Finally, thank you mage community for being helpful and repeating things over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Sometimes it's necessary and everyone should keep up the good work. But you guys who keep asking these questions, stop it. It's like asking what a stop sign means.


    PS: Read this thread before reading any other threads. Maybe with two threads like this, one of them will get read.

  2. #2
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    Really nice post Akraen, This kind of thread should defenately exist in every class forum! ¨

    Nice work!
    <Insert something clever>

  3. #3
    Deleted
    Nice post!

    I like to answer 'You don't want any help, because if you did, you would just have read one of the numerous guides there are.' to the moron threads.

  4. #4
    Deleted
    Why so bitter?

    Face it, most new people comming here with questions want help with rather trivial stuff. I'm kind of bad with mages and I'm not even that interested in really lerning the class since it's like my 3rd alt and close to an expansion, meaning we should expect changes soon anyways.

    I've read the guides and have geared and play (mostly) accordingly. That said, some stuff that might be trivial to you and other veteran mages might need some clarification to others. I don't want to dig into a 50 pages long thread to find the answer to my question.

  5. #5
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heap View Post
    Why so bitter?

    Face it, most new people comming here with questions want help with rather trivial stuff. I'm kind of bad with mages and I'm not even that interested in really lerning the class since it's like my 3rd alt and close to an expansion, meaning we should expect changes soon anyways.

    I've read the guides and have geared and play (mostly) accordingly. That said, some stuff that might be trivial to you and other veteran mages might need some clarification to others. I don't want to dig into a 50 pages long thread to find the answer to my question.
    No sir, this isn't about a trivial question. This is about even complex questions that have been answered many, many times already. Many times in the same day even. Sometimes two threads with the exact same topic will be posted by two users within minutes of each other when the answer is in another topic that was answered an hour previously.

  6. #6
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Heap View Post
    Why so bitter?

    Face it, most new people comming here with questions want help with rather trivial stuff. I'm kind of bad with mages and I'm not even that interested in really lerning the class since it's like my 3rd alt and close to an expansion, meaning we should expect changes soon anyways.

    I've read the guides and have geared and play (mostly) accordingly. That said, some stuff that might be trivial to you and other veteran mages might need some clarification to others. I don't want to dig into a 50 pages long thread to find the answer to my question.
    90% of the questions can be answered within a minute by googling. Of the remaining ten, 8% will take five minutes of googling.

  7. #7
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Blastfizzle View Post
    90% of the questions can be answered within a minute by googling. Of the remaining ten, 8% will take five minutes of googling.
    So what are the remaining 2% that people are allowed to ask about? Why do we even have a forum when you could just lock it and refer everyone to the stickys?


    Edit: Obviously I agree that it's stupid when the same question is asked over and over and I admire everyone that's helping out. But be realistic now... How much effort do you expect from people when it comes to reading old threads, going back several pages etc?

    Google is nice and all, but even there you'll have to search through the info to make sure it's up to date etc. It's just a bother...
    Last edited by mmoc1b009d603f; 2014-01-23 at 06:36 PM.

  8. #8
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    There's not much this late into a patch cycle because almost everything has been figured out. Those late to the party aren't looked down on at all.

    These topics were once not figured out, then hours and days and months of threads with debates and arguments, math, good opinions, bad opinions, etc. happened. Then the dust settled and we had actual answers to most things.

    The purpose of the forum is to have a nice record of all that discussion so people can catch up on it, they're like meeting minutes. Then guides get formed with the condensed information. Not all info gets to the guides, so that's why you can search. I guess to those of us who are always the ones helping, I mean it like this: would you rather take up the time of someone else or find an answer on your own? I always try to find the answer on my own first, then if I just can't seem to peg it down, then I'll make a new thread.

    Also, quite often I will make a new thread just for discussion sake, like:

    Mages! What do you think about changing Icy Veins so it does x,y,z instead of its current form? /discuss

    Or I am always very happy when I see someone make a thread like:

    Dear Ak, here is my Malkorok parse, can you please check it out and let me know what my areas of weakness are? I think it's uptimes, thanks!

    Or you can go outside the box and make a thread like:

    Whoaaaa I just tried a challenge mode as fire but reforged into haste and it was a blast, has anyone else tried this? /explanation

    And finally you could be chatty and cool and start a thread like:

    Mage Iron Man Competition Starting Next Week - Sign up here!
    or Strangest Flavor Items for Mages

  9. #9
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    Dear lovely mages,

    I care about you all.
    HERE HERE.

    i care about you too

    but yh srsly, wot wif all bad thredz m8's?xox

  10. #10
    whats the point of posting any threads anymore if all the info can be found by looking through the threads or google? seriously hate the mmo-champ mage community. never met a bunch of people more stuck up and bitchy about threads ever in my life. if you spend so much time on mmoc that you need to make a thread telling people to stop asking questions, then you have serious issues with your ego/post count. some people come here once a month and honestly, to expect them to read through x y z amount of threads dating back nearly 10 pages, you dont get what it is to be a new player looking for relevant information. some info isnt so easy to stumble upon.

    inb4 this gets a sticky instead of your guide.

  11. #11
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Not Againnn View Post
    whats the point of posting any threads anymore if all the info can be found by looking through the threads or google? seriously hate the mmo-champ mage community. never met a bunch of people more stuck up and bitchy about threads ever in my life. if you spend so much time on mmoc that you need to make a thread telling people to stop asking questions, then you have serious issues with your ego/post count. some people come here once a month and honestly, to expect them to read through x y z amount of threads dating back nearly 10 pages, you dont get what it is to be a new player looking for relevant information. some info isnt so easy to stumble upon.

    inb4 this gets a sticky instead of your guide.
    1 image telling you all you need to know for frost.
    But of course we need to pet the new players into growing intelligence first.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Draghonfourt View Post
    1 image telling you all you need to know for frost.
    But of course we need to pet the new players into growing intelligence first.
    basically... shooing away all the new mages by telling them that their questions "arent good enough" and to "google it" isnt going to help us become a better class at all. answering questions, no matter how dumb they are, helps people. if you dont want to answer it, then dont reply.

    it really is that simple!

    most of the people that post here are like 3 expansion veteran players who understand the iterations magi have gone through. new players dont get snapshotting or any kind of jargon we use as everyday words. expecting them to read through a small novel worth of threads and pages just to get 1 question answered is really, really self centered and elitist. sorry.
    Last edited by Not Againnn; 2014-01-23 at 07:48 PM.

  13. #13
    I think the difficult thing for me, coming back a little bit late in the game, is that there's a decent bit of outdated info that isn't relevant anymore to wade through. Granted, I haven't made any posts asking questions, but sometimes I'm at a loss as to how to quickly find the answer I'm looking, especially since I'm not at the same gear level as many of the pro mages here.

    The other issue I've had is that a lot of the theorycrafting seems to be for heroic-level mages, so I'm not sure how to apply some of the answers to my situation. Even the in-depth frost discussions say that if I don't have over 540 ilvl, that I should just come back later (I'm at 545 now, so I guess I can "care" now :/). Anyway, just thought I'd give my two cents on the matter.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Leshya View Post
    I think the difficult thing for me, coming back a little bit late in the game, is that there's a decent bit of outdated info that isn't relevant anymore to wade through. Granted, I haven't made any posts asking questions, but sometimes I'm at a loss as to how to quickly find the answer I'm looking, especially since I'm not at the same gear level as many of the pro mages here.

    The other issue I've had is that a lot of the theorycrafting seems to be for heroic-level mages, so I'm not sure how to apply some of the answers to my situation. Even the in-depth frost discussions say that if I don't have over 540 ilvl, that I should just come back later (I'm at 545 now, so I guess I can "care" now :/). Anyway, just thought I'd give my two cents on the matter.
    thats the issue with all of this...
    theres a clique of like 20 heroic geared master people that like to use this forum day in and day out. to a new player looking for relevant help, getting shot down because "I/WE ALREADY ANSWERED/DISCUSSED THIS 6 TIMES 14 PAGES AGO PER PATCH WHY DIDN'T U READ THE THREAD U FAILURE" is really disheartening.

    the feel of this forum compared to the dk forum is outrageous. the dk forum is at least nice. these people are so petty and elitist haha. never thought i would see a thread telling people to stop asking questions because literally he is tired of answering them. stupid.

  15. #15
    I posted without reading first. I'm sorry, Akraen... I'm sorry :<

    *Skims through the OP* Good post/+1?

    Seriously though, the amount of people posting those types of threads is staggering. People tend to be lazy and want immediate help without having to do any effort and searching for the already available answers that have been available probably long before they even started playing a Mage at 90.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  16. #16
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not Againnn View Post
    thats the issue with all of this...
    theres a clique of like 20 heroic geared master people that like to use this forum day in and day out. to a new player looking for relevant help, getting shot down because "I/WE ALREADY ANSWERED/DISCUSSED THIS 6 TIMES 14 PAGES AGO PER PATCH WHY DIDN'T U READ THE THREAD U FAILURE" is really disheartening.

    the feel of this forum compared to the dk forum is outrageous. the dk forum is at least nice. these people are so petty and elitist haha. never thought i would see a thread telling people to stop asking questions because literally he is tired of answering them. stupid.
    Then by all means, lead the discussion.

    Become the guy who helps answer all the questions. Do it. I'm going to expect to see replies from you on posts henceforth. Okay? Deal?

    The "clique" you think exists doesn't get paid for this, you know. Also, who is mean and where? I don't see any hostility in the mage forums anymore, those days are behind us. Sometimes I miss the hostility, at least it was less repetitive.

    Anyway I think I'll take the rest of the week off from helping people, everyone else in this "clique" should also enjoy a holiday. We'll let you take over customer support for a while

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Leshya View Post
    I think the difficult thing for me, coming back a little bit late in the game, is that there's a decent bit of outdated info that isn't relevant anymore to wade through. Granted, I haven't made any posts asking questions, but sometimes I'm at a loss as to how to quickly find the answer I'm looking, especially since I'm not at the same gear level as many of the pro mages here.

    The other issue I've had is that a lot of the theorycrafting seems to be for heroic-level mages, so I'm not sure how to apply some of the answers to my situation. Even the in-depth frost discussions say that if I don't have over 540 ilvl, that I should just come back later (I'm at 545 now, so I guess I can "care" now :/). Anyway, just thought I'd give my two cents on the matter.
    Your concerns don't even apply to my OP bullet points. If you made a thread: "How to analyze sub ilvl 540 mages" - and asked some questions, I would be more than happy to help. Thing is, I wanted my guide to be very visual and easy to follow, below ilvl 540, frost behaves differently. I'd have to have a guide that is five times the size to explain pre-540 shatter cap rule, icy veins glyph, and how mastery and haste flip flop. I am very happy to explain these things, coach you, and coach anyone else. It's not that I think anyone below 540 is useless, it's just that Flex item level is 540 and that seemed like a good place to start the Advanced Guide.

    In general, those below 540 can stick to the basics in Kuni's thread and try to master all that stuff. If there's someone who just can't get Flex gear to drop for them, or has no interest in anything above LFR, but also wants to maximize their play, then I am 100% on board with helping you out.

    But maybe Not Againnn can help you out instead.

  17. #17
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Heap View Post
    So what are the remaining 2% that people are allowed to ask about? Why do we even have a forum when you could just lock it and refer everyone to the stickys?


    Edit: Obviously I agree that it's stupid when the same question is asked over and over and I admire everyone that's helping out. But be realistic now... How much effort do you expect from people when it comes to reading old threads, going back several pages etc?

    Google is nice and all, but even there you'll have to search through the info to make sure it's up to date etc. It's just a bother...
    The forum is active for the 2%, for smart and specific questions, to discuss developments and experiments ('I was bored with frost so I did CMs in Fire and it was better in this and worse in that.').

    'It's just a bother' - yes, it is just a bother and complete lazyness to ask other people to do your search for you.

  18. #18
    Deleted
    You don't have to read or reply in threads you're not interested in, you know...

    I know I won't be comming back here anymore, sorry if my precence annoyed you.

  19. #19
    There was a post made a month ago that says to read the other posts and guides before posting. Not sure why we needed a second one - moderators seem to move threads...

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...Before-Posting!

  20. #20
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    Agreed. I haven't played in two years. I came here, skimmed the two frost guides and now I'm right where I should be on the meters. If I have a bad fight I know it without looking. I didn't find it hard to find info. Maybe we need "Not outdated as of x/x" in huge bold letters on the guides. I dunno.

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