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  1. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    The same people who gave us that wonderful food pyramid?
    The food pyramid that tells you to eat meat only a few times a week? I think that one is wonderful.

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Velaniz View Post
    Similiar reasons for why we should minimize nonhuman suffering. The fact that it doesn't benefit us as directly shouldn't be of much consequence. Humanity doesn't function on that kind of per-need basis. There is no reason not to endeavor to minimize the suffering of any creature that can feel it, human or otherwise. Discriminating against animals on account of their species is an underhanded attempt to justify what's almost inherently a flawed position.

    You wouldn't kill and consume an alien lifeform that was of similiar intelligence to humans, but of a very different species, would you? So clearly an organism's mere species shouldn't factor into it. What factors does that leave you to decide on a course of action over, then? Intelligence? Why does intelligence inherently confer a creature with rights? You wouldn't kill a mentally-retarded person who had even less cognitive capabilities than an animal. That is illegal, and thankfully so.
    I normally just put it as this:

    I really would not want an alien species to come to the planet and inflict unneeded suffering onto us simply because they could and viewed us as less intelligent than them. If I would feel this way if it happened to humans, why should I feel differently when it is humans doing it to something else.

  3. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPyramid View Post
    The food pyramid that tells you to eat meat only a few times a week? I think that one is wonderful.
    Naw, the one I grew up with that said we needed 6-11 servings of complex carbohydrates every damn day
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    So what you are saying is the way you use the word 'vegetarianism' isn't the actual definition, or what is used by say the government or large organizations, and we should all change how we use it to match you because you are right?

    Excellent. I'll do that.
    That version of vegetarianism isn't even used by most large organizations lol. Did you miss the sentence that I quoted from the thing you linked?

  5. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    So what you are saying is the way you use the word 'vegetarianism' isn't the actual definition, or what is used by say the government or large organizations, and we should all change how we use it to match you because you are right?

    Excellent. I'll do that.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism
    "Vegetarianism is the practice of abstaining from the consumption of meat – red meat, poultry, seafood and the flesh of any other animal; it may also include abstention from by-products of animal slaughter.[2][3][4][5]"

    vegetarian
    "a person who does not eat meat or fish, and sometimes other animal products, especially for moral, religious, or health reasons."
    http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/de...ish/vegetarian

    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    Naw, the one I grew up with that said we needed 6-11 servings of complex carbohydrates every damn day
    Was it written by a Hobbit?

  6. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Algathor View Post
    I normally just put it as this:

    I really would not want an alien species to come to the planet and inflict unneeded suffering onto us simply because they could and viewed us as less intelligent than them. If I would feel this way if it happened to humans, why should I feel differently when it is humans doing it to something else.
    I read a sci-fi short story sort of about that kind of concept. One sapient race was eating another sapient race, because the eaters were more intelligent than the others (think humans compared to, like, a race of chimps that all knew sign language.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davillage View Post
    Was it written by a Hobbit?
    No, but it's from about the same time period as that The Hobbit cartoon movie!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by Algathor View Post
    I normally just put it as this:

    I really would not want an alien species to come to the planet and inflict unneeded suffering onto us simply because they could and viewed us as less intelligent than them. If I would feel this way if it happened to humans, why should I feel differently when it is humans doing it to something else.
    Exactly this. Or stamp us out because they want land to make space for themselves 'because they're doing it to survive' when there's Mars and Venus so close by.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flutterguy View Post
    In fact, I quite like it and I would consider it an abuse to inflict my child with a foreskin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    You don't appear to understand how it works...they don't stick it on when the baby is born.

  8. #388
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velaniz View Post
    You wouldn't kill a mentally-retarded person who had even less cognitive capabilities than an animal. That is illegal, and thankfully so.
    The only people with less cognitive capabilities than animals - are people in vegetative state. And their relatives can kill them via doctors turning off the machine.
    A mentally retarded person is smarter than an animal. For one they can talk and understand speech. Mostly it's just learning disability, they are slower at learning stuff.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  9. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velaniz View Post
    Exactly this. Or stamp us out because they want land to make space for themselves 'because they're doing it to survive' when there's Mars and Venus so close by.
    But what if they can't survive Venus' heat or Mars' lack of atmosphere? You're being damned inconsiderate, Velaniz.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Velaniz View Post
    Exactly this. Or stamp us out because they want land to make space for themselves 'because they're doing it to survive' when there's Mars and Venus so close by.
    I always try and find a way to put humans as whole as the oppressed side when trying to make situations. It hits home a bit better than trying to bring out empathy for basically anything most of the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    I read a sci-fi short story sort of about that kind of concept. One sapient race was eating another sapient race, because the eaters were more intelligent than the others (think humans compared to, like, a race of chimps that all knew sign language.)
    I love sci-fi stuff, or the older sci-fi stuff, because it actually tried to bring thought into the situation a decent amount of the time. Now we just have shakenado and stuff >.>

    It's 5 A.M. and I am losing a grip on my ability to create coherent sentences. I think it is time for me to be done here for the night, lol.
    Last edited by Moralgy; 2014-01-24 at 09:59 AM.

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    The only people with less cognitive capabilities than animals - are people in vegetative state. And their relatives can kill them via doctors turning off the machine.
    A mentally retarded person is smarter than an animal. For one they can talk and understand speech. Mostly it's just learning disability, they are slower at learning stuff.
    There are levels of mental retardation. People profoundly mentally-challenged often aren't as intelligent as pigs or dogs, two species that are as intelligent as human 4 year olds. It depends on the kind of condition they have. You can go and look them up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PizzaSHARK View Post
    But what if they can't survive Venus' heat or Mars' lack of atmosphere? You're being damned inconsiderate, Velaniz.
    Yes of course, don't want to have to cause those aliens unnecessary suffering.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flutterguy View Post
    In fact, I quite like it and I would consider it an abuse to inflict my child with a foreskin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalis View Post
    You don't appear to understand how it works...they don't stick it on when the baby is born.

  12. #392
    During my husband's college days... he had a run in with vegan preachers. They had rented out several tables in the cafeteria to show a video sponsored by PETA... of chickens/cows being slaughtered/processed. They were eating as well, but at a different table, not in view of the screen. A lot of people were complaining, but they wouldn't budge. My husband also said if they saw someone eating a burger or something, they'd go up to them and start bitching about it... after a few days of this. My husband got sick of them, ordered a double cheeseburger, and went to watch their video... while eating the cheeseburger, feigning interest. He disgusted them lol they never protested in the cafeteria again.

    It's also how he got his nickname... 'Evil Dave' :P

    I've personally never ran into a vegan/vegetarian preacher. I know plenty of vegetarians, but none really care what I eat. And I don't care what they eat. If they come over, I provide hummus or something for them. Or make a vegetarian friendly dish.

  13. #393
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velaniz View Post
    There are levels of mental retardation. People profoundly mentally-challenged often aren't as intelligent as pigs or dogs, two species that are as intelligent as human 4 year olds. It depends on the kind of condition they have. You can go and look them up.
    I don't need to look it up. They are smarter than animals. They can speak and understand speech.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  14. #394
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    I find this thread extremely funny in many ways.. Especially when I see how many flawed arguments people make just so they can justify eating meat.
    I'm a vegan for 4 years now, my husband is vegan for 9 years (we are both perfectly healthy, take no supplements, just eat right and exercise (yes, plants have enough protein)). Now, why have we become vegan?
    - First of all, many people don't even know any more how their food is made, heck, half the children will say burgers come from McDonalds instead of a cow..
    - Mass genocide is not an argument for killing 65 billion animals a year to "feed" people...
    - It takes up to 5-10 kg of plant based food to get 1 kg of meat (not even going to start on the water..) so if you use the argument that plant farming is worse for the environment than meat I'd urge you to become vegetarian or vegan, cause you would be using less plant based food than a meat eater..
    - Using the excuse that not everyone can become vegan due to the place they live in does not comply to you. I have no problem with people eating meat when they need it to survive like dessert/Arctic regions, but again.. that's not you..
    - 85% of all meat contains antibiotics destroying your resistance to diseases and letting viruses become immune to them by mutation (pandemic).
    - Using the excuse that the world would be overrun by animals if we did not eat them is incorrect as these animals would not be there if you hadn't force bred them... Saying that these animals have then us to thank them for their lives would be like saying a child needs to be thankful to be alive if it was born in a concentration camp..

    I can go on a long way with this list but I won't bother. What I want to say with this comment is that meat eaters often complain about vegans and vegetarians "preaching" without even knowing why we do it.. I don't like this preaching any more than you do, but when people come up with arguments that don't even make sense just to defend a "habit" that they find hard to let go to (addiction) and meanwhile destroy the environment, sorry, that I just can't let go by without saying.
    I'd rather just want them to say "I don't give a fuck about anyone" instead of trying to make up lies. Cause at least then they would be telling the truth.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    I don't need to look it up. They are smarter than animals. They can speak and understand speech.
    All animals (including humans) have their own way of communication. Still doesn't make em smarter than another animal. It are the cognitive abilities that define the "intelligence" of a sentient being. The fact that you don't want to look it up shows how much research you have done to come to your "fact".

  15. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obscuritatis View Post
    All animals (including humans) have their own way of communication. Still doesn't make em smarter than another animal. It are the cognitive abilities that define the "intelligence" of a sentient being. The fact that you don't want to look it up shows how much research you have done to come to your "fact".
    The fact that you don't understand the difference between "want" and "need" suggests that there's no point in communicating with you any further.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  16. #396
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    I revel in the slaughter and consumption of animals.

    The taste of flesh cannot be exceeded by any plant based object.

  17. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    The fact that you don't understand the difference between "want" and "need" suggests that there's no point in communicating with you any further.
    If you had done research you would have found quite another outcome. Just trying to quickly dismiss something still doesn't make you right. So unless you can come up with more elaborate data your point is still quite void.

  18. #398
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    @Obscuritatis
    Do you steal from Bees?

  19. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davillage View Post
    @Obscuritatis
    Do you steal from Bees?
    No, I do not eat honey. Nor do I wear leather, wool, silk, fur, etc... or use any animals in entertainment.

  20. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    I don't need to look it up. They are smarter than animals. They can speak and understand speech.
    Many animals can speak and understand human speech. All different kinds of primates, dogs, pigs, dolphins... it's a pretty wide list.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    I also do landscaping on weekends with some mexican kid that I "hired". He's real good because he's 100% obedient to me and does everything I say while never complaining. He knows that I am the man in the relationship and is completely submissive towards me as he should be.
    Quote Originally Posted by SUH View Post
    Crissi the goddess of MMO, if i may. ./bow

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