This LFR/Flex model for gear progression is mindless and not fun.

[Holyshnikies]

LFR is a nice idea. I do like it. But after the 5th time, f**k that. The gap in the ilvl is too much and the drop rates are too damn low, not to mention getting a piece of gear that you already have. If you are going to FORCE US to run that f**kin mindless, repetitive, tedious shit ( -__- poker rage face ) that nobody gives a F*** about in the first place, over and over and over again to progress gear, just so I can do the same with Flex over and over and over, just so I can finally do normal modes with friends and other raiders over and over and over again just so I can finally get to heroic raiding, how about closing the ilvl gap of the gear to within 5 ilvls of each other. And yes, I don't care what you say. It is essentially a forceful movement on Blizzards part if we want to raid normal modes. Not everyone, nor will everyone want to drop 20k on multiple pieces of craftable gear that will be replaced anyways just to boost an ilvl number in order to skip LFR and flex.

I had quit playing about 6 weeks after 5.4 came out. Just could not get any damn gear to drop for me in lfr and flex. I finally got to do a flex wing or 2 and get a few drops. After that, nothing. I quit from discouragement and not having fun. It's not fun. I'm telling you as a consumer of this product, that that model of how to get gear, is not fun. I'm tired of this philosophy that you have to cater to casualness. Casuals still raid normal modes. And if normal modes are all that existed, like, idk, how they did all the way up until late Cataclysm, being able to raid with friends and being able to distribute loot is much funner than having to tirelessly grind through lfr and flex. F*** that. Seriously. I want to raid and it pisses me off that I have to play this game by luck of the drop and what my ilvl is rather than my skill.

People used to make fun of gearscore and laugh at people who use gearscore to determine skill and or acceptance to a raid or group. Now all I see is; ilvl min and do you have a heart beat? (Kind of reminds me of all the people who said F*** you EA for what they did to Sim City, then these same people buy BF4 lol.) Silly sheep. What kind of business model is that? Won't be surprised if this game hits the 5 million mark for subscribers by Spring.

Anyways, maybe I'm the only one who views it this way. I know some of you will leave hateful comments below as I disagree with the dude(s) at Blizzard that made this up to make WoW this way. But really, what do you honestly think of the current state of this model?

[DechCJC]

I agree, and so does Blizzard. That's why they're making much more events like the timeless isle happen in the world in WoD so that you don't need to spam LFR for entry level gear. I still think LFR should be a tour (a demo even) and nothing else, there should be enough content in the world that this shouldn't be an issue imo (ideally).

[Holyshnikies]

I agree, and so does Blizzard. That's why they're making much more events like the timeless isle happen in the world in WoD so that you don't need to spam LFR for entry level gear. I still think LFR should be a tour (a demo even) and nothing else, there should be enough content in the world that this shouldn't be an issue imo (ideally).

AWESOME! I like that and I agree to the Demo idea.

[Sithalos]

AWESOME! I like that and I agree to the Demo idea.

All the shitters around here who praise LOLFR as the best thing to happen to the game will disagree.

[Khorm]

I agree, and so does Blizzard. That's why they're making much more events like the timeless isle happen in the world in WoD so that you don't need to spam LFR for entry level gear. I still think LFR should be a tour (a demo even) and nothing else, there should be enough content in the world that this shouldn't be an issue imo (ideally).

lolwut? Timeless Isle had catch up gear which 5mans had covered in previous expansions. With 5mans supposedly coming out each tier next xpac there won't be TI like gear. 5mans will be the alternative so you don't have to raid LFR. But honestly with normal raids going heroic in WoD and xrealmable from the start and flex going normal with the same model as MoP then being time poor is no longer an excuse to not raid.

[Holyshnikies]

I like the idea for timeless isle. I think timeless isle + new dungeons each patch would be a good thing. I've found more fun in Cata than I have MoP to be honest...

[Ramesside]

I agree wholeheartedly, I would rather grind 5 mans all day for gear instead of grinding the very raid I'm working towards. Because as cool as it may be to "see" the content, LFR is not engaging content and it's chore to run. Blizzard would have to be blind not to see this issue and I presume that they will fix it come WoD. For now I'll grind it until all my gear pieces are 540+, then never step into an LFR again.

Edit: I should add that I am not against LFR at all, I'm against being forced to run it for gear progression.

[Kioshi]

I like the idea for timeless isle. I think timeless isle + new dungeons each patch would be a good thing. I've found more fun in Cata than I have MoP to be honest...

I honestly think timeless island is dumb, I prefer Battlefield Barrens. People who do Raid Finder as progression is dumb, Raid finder isn't intended to be a stepping stone for Normal, if you were in a good guild already you would be ToT(N) -> SoS(N), or even ToT(H) -> SoS(N), its not Blizzard fault you feel you need to run Raidfinder to do Normal, I think Blizzard should lock RaidFinder/Flex/Normal/Heroic together that way dumb people like you guys don't feel the need to do Flex as a stepping stone. This is what Blizzard wanted it to work like.

Type of people / Progression steps
(People with time constants) / Raid Finder -> Raid finder
(Casual gamers who can't raid a lot, or have an uneven team) / Flex -> Flex
(Casual but want a challenge Guild) / Normal -> Normal
(Hardcore Guilds) / T1 Normal -> T1 Hard -> T2 Normal -> T2 Hard

It just you people who complain about RF that are trying to do this

RF/Flex/T1 Normal -> RF/Flex/T1 Hard -> RF/Flex/T2 Normal -> RF/Flex/T2 Hard

Sorry but its not blizzards fault you feel like you need to go into Raid Finder, hell you could skip Raid Finder anyways, go hunt "Burden of Eternity" and you can get your ilevel high enough to do Flex, or normal.

Here is my advise "STOP MAKING THINGS HARD FOR YOURSELF AND THEN COMPLAIN"

[Ramesside]

I honestly think timeless island is dumb, I prefer Battlefield Barrens. People who do Raid Finder as progression is dumb, Raid finder isn't intended to be a stepping stone for Normal, if you were in a good guild already you would be ToT(N) -> SoS(N), or even ToT(H) -> SoS(N), its not Blizzard fault you feel you need to run Raidfinder to do Normal, I think Blizzard should lock RaidFinder/Flex/Normal/Heroic together that way dumb people like you guys don't feel the need to do Flex as a stepping stone. This is what Blizzard wanted it to work like.

That's a pretty dumb thing to say. What if one were to just come back to the game during 5.4? Or if someone wants to get into raiding for the first time? For those people, they have to do LFR for gear progression. Why? Because flex runs generally require a certain level of item level that is only attainable through running LFR. And even when you can get into flex, chances are there will still be pieces left in your gear that are not 528+, therefore you must do LFR for gear progression. I don't queue for LFR because I'm "dumb", I queue for it because I need the loot.

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that way dumb people like you guys don't feel the need to do Flex as a stepping stone

Also I hope you realize how utterly retarded this statement is. You want 535+ for normals. How the hell is someone jumping into 5.4 going to get 535+ without flex, hmm? Flex is a required stepping stone, no question.

[Rocketknight]

Also I hope you realize how utterly retarded this statement is. You want 535+ for normals. How the hell is someone jumping into 5.4 going to get 535+ without flex, hmm? Flex is a required stepping stone, no question.

Dude, he said we should go farm Burdens of Eternity. That will give you 535 gear. You only need a full set of Burdened gear. That's not asking too much. If you can't get that, you're MAKING THINGS HARD FOR YOURSELF.

/s

[Holyshnikies]

I honestly think timeless island is dumb, I prefer Battlefield Barrens. People who do Raid Finder as progression is dumb, Raid finder isn't intended to be a stepping stone for Normal, if you were in a good guild already you would be ToT(N) -> SoS(N), or even ToT(H) -> SoS(N), its not Blizzard fault you feel you need to run Raidfinder to do Normal, I think Blizzard should lock RaidFinder/Flex/Normal/Heroic together that way dumb people like you guys don't feel the need to do Flex as a stepping stone. This is what Blizzard wanted it to work like.

So its my fault I have a new character at level 90 and I want to progress in 5.4? Right. Because, that makes sense.

[ComputerNerd]

LFR was a necessity due to the horrible state of the community.
Pugs used to be way more flexible, way more forgiving of less than ideal circumstances.
However that went downhill, with inflated requirements and ever stricter schedules.
Players who are inconvenienced by a real life are being pushed out of traditional raiding formats.

Sure, I think that dungeons as a catchup would have been preferable to Timeless Timesink Isle, but the BoA nature of much of that equipment is really hard to pass up if your alts are going to benefit.

There are previous Tiers, so in theory players should not NEED LFR.
That is a community problem if nobody is raiding those in organised formats.

[Holyshnikies]

LFR was a necessity due to the horrible state of the community.
Pugs used to be way more flexible, way more forgiving of less than ideal circumstances.
However that went downhill, with inflated requirements and ever stricter schedules.
Players who are inconvenienced by a real life are being pushed out of traditional raiding formats.

Sure, I think that dungeons as a catchup would have been preferable to Timeless Timesink Isle, but the BoA nature of much of that equipment is really hard to pass up if your alts are going to benefit.

There are previous Tiers, so in theory players should not NEED LFR.
That is a community problem if nobody is raiding those in organised formats.

But see, that's that casual thing I'm talking about. I find it to be a public relations thing for Blizzard to seem more open friendly. Companies like to be all happy sunshine flowers and unicorns to people. I find it disturbing that companies feel the need to be like that as an image. Just be a company and make a great damn game like it used to be. Don't worry about your image of being open to all sorts of people. Making a great game will set the only image you need to represent your company for people to trust the products it produces.

And the timeless ( Timesink ) isle made me laugh haha.

[hakujinbakasama]

Blizzard - 2010 : Players felt forced to do the raids/content multiple times a week to stay competitive and current.

Yeah, nothing has really changed.

[Simmias]

it's an rpg game, ofc it isnt going to change.
Feel free to quit.

[Mormolyce]

It's actually not slow at all, it's just that the randomness of the model and the fact that luck protection is invisible to the player makes it demoralising when you're unlucky.

The gap in the ilvl is too much and the drop rates are too damn low

I find I outgear LFR very quickly. The item drop rates are actually 25%, which is very high if you think about it. It was considerably lower in previous tiers I believe, like 15%.

Le source.

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Blizzard - 2010 : Players felt forced to do the raids/content multiple times a week to stay competitive and current.

Yeah, nothing has really changed.

At least you don't feel pressured to do the exact same raid on two different raid sizes twice per week, regardless of whether those raid sizes were compatible with your guild size.

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I agree, and so does Blizzard. That's why they're making much more events like the timeless isle happen in the world in WoD so that you don't need to spam LFR for entry level gear. I still think LFR should be a tour (a demo even) and nothing else, there should be enough content in the world that this shouldn't be an issue imo (ideally).

Pretty sure that gear will only catch you up to Heroic or maybe LFR level. Though nothing is confirmed yet.

[Paulosio]

lolwut? Timeless Isle had catch up gear which 5mans had covered in previous expansions. With 5mans supposedly coming out each tier next xpac there won't be TI like gear. 5mans will be the alternative so you don't have to raid LFR. But honestly with normal raids going heroic in WoD and xrealmable from the start and flex going normal with the same model as MoP then being time poor is no longer an excuse to not raid.

I've not heard anything about 5 mans coming out with each tier. 1 of the things a lot of people are complaining about with WOD is the lack of 5 mans. All i've heard blizzard say on the situation is they don't like adding a couple of new dungeons each patch because people get bored of doing the same 2-3 dungeons over and over again.

[kamuimac]

I've not heard anything about 5 mans coming out with each tier. 1 of the things a lot of people are complaining about with WOD is the lack of 5 mans. All i've heard blizzard say on the situation is they don't like adding a couple of new dungeons each patch because people get bored of doing the same 2-3 dungeons over and over again.

so what u say they are geting bored from doin 2-3 same dungeons but they dont get bored from doin one and only raid on all alts over and over again on multiple difficulties - seems so legit -_-

[Deleted]

The issue with MOP is that a lot of catchup / needed content to raid is dps oriented... i was a paladin healer + tank offspec in cata, and it worked just fine.

With MOP, not having a good dps spec made dailies / ToT island / timeless island a chore to do.

So i had to change my main char secondary spec to dps.
Same thing apply to rerolls whose main spec is not dps (mine were healers first spec)... try to farm timeless (or previous content) with shitty gear that puts you 20-30%+ hit on a balanced pop server... (ie where you get killed every 15 minutes for the bloody coins)

LFR is not mandatory / needed : on the alt i'm playing at the moment, i've killed a total of 9 bosses in LFR before being accepted in flex group (oqueue or guild groups) (i've not farmed so much the island : i got only 1 burden, and bought only the crafted belt). Now i'm 535 (after 3 flex 1 and 2 flex 2) and don't plan to queue for LFR on this char anymore.

Flex is mandatory to raid normal. But here you should use the mmo part of wow : being in a guild that do flex events. And i think that's what blizzard wanted : 5 man dongeons with strangers is not really playing a mmo. Forcing people to play with a guild group for gearing is more like playing a mmo, but it make those of us who were used to play a bit more solo (for any reason, time constraint, lots of rerolls, ...) feels a bit lost and find the catch-up mechanism painful.

I though at first that they should have put the flex level on the same ID as normal mode, and allow normal raiders stuck on a boss to switch it to flex level (like heroic raiders do it when they're stuck : switching back to normal mode). But now i see how i've helped guildmates on flex with my normal geared main, and i'm not so sure it would have been better : I wouldn't have helped guildmate that much, had it locked me out of raiding normal for that week.

As a consequence you have more choices : (raid LFR, raid flex, raid normal / heroic) x (the number of char you have). It's on your back to be strong and make a choice : quicker catchup, but huge time investment, or do it at a slower pace.

Most of all, find people with whom you like spending time playing: wow is a mmo. After you've spent dozen of hours playing tarot with friends, what makes you play again and again ? (i can tell you that it's not because the content in tarot games changes )