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  1. #1

    This is why 10 man loot table is total crap

    when there is like 20 loot for each boss, certain item drop has such low drop chance for 10 man

    I play shadow priest and just to let everyone know how UNLUCKY I am on trinkets (currently im ilvl 572, every item heroic except BOTH trinkets)

    Immerseus trinket -> 15 kills on heroic (dropped once, our elemental shaman got it)
    Immerseus trinket -> 15 bonus rolls used on heroic (almost got every item TWICE for shadow spezialation, but no trinket)

    Korkron Dark Shaman trinket -> 12 kills on heroic + 12 bonus rolls on heroic = no trinket (0 actual drops so far)

    currently running with Garrosh normal trinket and Lei Shen Normal forged
    Looks I'll replacing them with WoD greens.....

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  2. #2
    and in 25man our other elemental shaman needed about 18 resets to finally get his heroic immerseus trinket, which is basically essential, without it i could stand in the fire, play with a blindfold and still beat him.

    so yeh it's not really a 10man issue, sure we'll get more trinkets, but we have 2.5 times more people to gear up and some just don't get the drops like you and end up with shit trinkets.

    and really does it matter? 10man is dead 25 is dead, it's 20man or LFR/flex style loot or players in raid*0.2 = number of loots for WoD

  3. #3
    Some people are lucky, some are unlucky. I have HWF and hc BiS trinkets myself and I got a crit(fire mage) heroic weapon + heroic tier chest + pet our first Sha kill.

    I agree that it's crappy that 10man has so much worse loot though. 0.2 pieces per person in 10man and 0.24 in 25man, 10% wf in 10man and 25% in 25man.

    WoD will fix this though, so I'm not losing sleep over it and it's best if you accept the situation too.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    and in 25man our other elemental shaman needed about 18 resets to finally get his heroic immerseus trinket, which is basically essential, without it i could stand in the fire, play with a blindfold and still beat him.

    so yeh it's not really a 10man issue, sure we'll get more trinkets, but we have 2.5 times more people to gear up and some just don't get the drops like you and end up with shit trinkets.
    It's definitely a 10man issue. 1 unlucky dps while gearing 10man = 3-4 unlucky dps in 25man

    Also, since you get 6 drops per boss kill, it's much, much more common for you to get a specific piece in 1 kill than it is for 10man players to get in 3 kills. (I don't remember which boss, but some bugger always drop an agi ring for us. 3 agi rings in a row = 3 agi rings in one kill for you. Is that possible? Nnnnnnnnnnnnnope)

    It's a LOT harder to gear in 10man and RNG fucks you over so much more often. Trust me.

  4. #4
    yeah, I even ran LFR + FLEX immerseus for total of 20 times without getting a trinket for lols

    Doesn't really matter anymore tho since we are 14/14 hc (wasnt in garrosh first kill setup, gonna get my ach later this week hopefully)

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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    so yeh it's not really a 10man issue, sure we'll get more trinkets, but we have 2.5 times more people to gear up and some just don't get the drops like you and end up with shit trinkets.
    someone used math back in firelands to show that 25man gearing was significantly faster than 10 man gearing.
    And that was even when gear drops were closer together iirc.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by bals View Post
    someone used math back in firelands to show that 25man gearing was significantly faster than 10 man gearing.
    And that was even when gear drops were closer together iirc.
    not to mention warforged items, which are extremely rare in 10 man

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  7. #7
    In retrospect, I think it's good that it has been a lot easier to gear in 25man.

    Why? Because it helped some guilds stay 25man and that will make it easier for a lot of people when WoD arrive due to 20man mythic.

    The guild I'm in now is too awesome for me to leave for any 25man guild, but raiding in 25man is so much more fun.

    + you get WAY less mechanics to care about as ranged, it's unbelievable. Challenge is fine, but it's a lot easier to stand and nuke in 25man and that's fun.

  8. #8
    Its not like this is something new, its how loot have always worked, now we are just spoiled with that bonus roll, and that seems to be even more crap when it comes to rng.

  9. #9
    I'm currently in an 8/14 Heroic 10 man raiding guild and our drops for the 2 melee dps agility users has been atrocious. We have a combined (heroic and normal) 20 kills on most bosses and we have only ever seen ONE (and it was normal) none-dagger 1H agility weapon and the only agility DPS trinket has been the one off of Sha of Pride.

    Meanwhile, we've gotten 3 heroic caster trinkets off of shamans, and still zero agility ones. Every other class in our 10 man has a heroic weapon for their primary spec and most of them have heroic weapons for their offspec. Hell we've pulled in other players to help get them geared and they already have heroic weapons.

    It is just so frustrating that there are FIVE 1h none-dagger agility weapons in SoO (counting the heirloom) and after months of farming and progressing through heroics we still only have had one drop and that factors in coin usage. Last night on shamans I used a coin to try to get the agility trinket but I got a heroic warforged cloak instead YIPEEE THANKS LET ME JUST UNEQUIP MY LEGEN....OH WAIT.

  10. #10
    People always bitch. It's always "I'm unlucky because I'm missing 2 items", never "I'm lucky because I have 14".

    Seriously, boohoo, get over it.

  11. #11
    I think the bigger problem is that we rely so heavily on certain pieces. Don't have a PBI? You're 5%, minimum, worse than the next guy with one. Don't have weapons? You do 20% less than someone with them.

    No-one complains about missing wrist or neck drops, since they're a trivial amount of DPS.

  12. #12
    They should at least to not drop items no one can use in 10 man.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Atfirst View Post
    when there is like 20 loot for each boss, certain item drop has such low drop chance for 10 man

    I play shadow priest and just to let everyone know how UNLUCKY I am on trinkets (currently im ilvl 572, every item heroic except BOTH trinkets)

    Immerseus trinket -> 15 kills on heroic (dropped once, our elemental shaman got it)
    Immerseus trinket -> 15 bonus rolls used on heroic (almost got every item TWICE for shadow spezialation, but no trinket)

    Korkron Dark Shaman trinket -> 12 kills on heroic + 12 bonus rolls on heroic = no trinket (0 actual drops so far)

    currently running with Garrosh normal trinket and Lei Shen Normal forged
    Looks I'll replacing them with WoD greens.....
    In other news our 10m has gotten so many that our 4 casters, both monks (for MW) all have a heroic immerseus trinket.

    Hell. We gave one away to a trial on their first raid because we've gotten so many.

    RNG is RNG, and I can't count the amount of times that when I did 25m where a boss would drop 3x of the same loot every week. It's not a 10m issue.

  14. #14
    Meanwhile in Echoes -2x dks, 2x rets, 2x warriors have gotten a total of two (2) thok trinkets to share. One coined by a warrior, one dropped that we gave to a ret pally. Our warrior tank coined one for his smash gear, but yea. Supposedly that thing is going to increase their dps by a very huge margin (5-10%), so that kind of sucks - we've had more heroic kills on thok than you have immerseus, we've gotten the same number of trinkets as you guys dropping, and we're 25 man. It's not an issue with 10 man alone.
    Regardless, 20 man next expansion, 10 man loot issues over. No reason to complain the other size has it better when there is no other size .

    Also worth noting is 2x total PoPP (healer AMP trinket) dropping so far. We've had a bit more luck with 4 healers coining one there, though, so only 2 are still missing it.
    Last edited by Dracodraco; 2014-01-24 at 06:30 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by TOM_RUS View Post
    They should at least to not drop items no one can use in 10 man.
    Thats gone in WOD, it doesn't drop Int plate anymore, it just drops plate. It's only Int plate when the paladin who won the roll on it in their Holy spec. And it will be Str plate for the DPS spec or the tank spec.
    My name is Cernunnos, I will love you like no other, I have died a thousand deaths, each time I died I thought of you.

  16. #16
    RNG will always be RNG, but I've always taken issues to the specific types of gear that drops. I wish certain bosses could only drop gear that is usable by the raid. Meaning in 10M let's say you currently don't have a shaman in your raid, then the boss will not drop caster/resto mail gear. Obviously agi mail could still drop as hunters can use this, but that's just one example. I know this traditionaly affects 25M less as they have more diversity, so this will be a moot point once WoD comes, but it's always been an issue I've had.

    Although, if they did change what I listed above, some guilds could got to extreme measures to get spefici types of drops which would not be good.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Reptar View Post
    RNG will always be RNG, but I've always taken issues to the specific types of gear that drops. I wish certain bosses could only drop gear that is usable by the raid. Meaning in 10M let's say you currently don't have a shaman in your raid, then the boss will not drop caster/resto mail gear. Obviously agi mail could still drop as hunters can use this, but that's just one example. I know this traditionaly affects 25M less as they have more diversity, so this will be a moot point once WoD comes, but it's always been an issue I've had.

    Although, if they did change what I listed above, some guilds could got to extreme measures to get spefici types of drops which would not be good.
    As Cernunnos says - it will be "sort of" fixed in WoD, as the main attribute on the gear (str, int, agil) will change dependant on spec. The secondary or tertiary attributes (haste, crit, mastery and things like multistrike, cleave, movement speed, amplification, sockets+gems in them) will not, however - which means that for any player, any piece of gear (as long as it's their armor class) should be fully useable for main spec. And most offspecs will be "geared to the teeth" during progression compared to what we have now, as they can use their main set of gear.

  18. #18
    I wish Blizzard would give each item a boss can drop the same percentage chance to drop, and make all bosses that drop tier drop the tier as a "bonus" item. One shot at a loot table with 15+ items on it is terrible. I'm looking at you, Siegecrafter.

  19. #19
    Loot in 25 is definitely better.

    We once had THREE trinkets from Heroic Immersius droping at the same time, one of them WF!

    Last week, one more dropped, and it went to the new recruit, because every other raider and recruit already had it!

    In comparison to 10 man, before our jump to 25, where it dropped once... There is definitely a huge difference.

  20. #20
    High Overlord
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    I've been running Sha of Pride for 4 months on 4 90s, tokening every single kill every week on said 90s. I also reserve it in half the runs I do due to how ridiculous it is. I am still waiting for my 553 prismatic prison on EVERY toon. I have not seen it drop. I have tokened the neck or helmet (leather and plate) at least 5 times each. I have tokened tier chest four times on my paladin (1 was heroic thankfully). I haven't even tokened the weapon for my ele shaman or druid (they both have better weapons now).

    The funniest part? Our main run has seen 2 heroic immerseus trinkets drop (and 1 player token it). Our alt run two weeks ago saw FOUR players token it on heroic. I don't think I'm ever going to see that again in a 10 man.

    I've given up hope on my druid that it'll drop and that I can just live without it given that I have a 561 insignia/580 Acid tooth (tooth which I tokened, go figure). I've seen Elegon's mount (and won it) in fewer kills since T15 started than I've killed Sha of Pride (over that entire time span) than I have that trinket. 10 man is just awful, but you accept it since it's the current system in place. I assure you though OP, it can be worse. I promise.

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