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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by malletin View Post
    The majority of the dungeons in TBC used the same art assets. I'd much rather have few somewhat unique looking dungeons than alot of similar looking ones.
    Same art assets, right. There is such a variety of enemies in Siege of Niuzao Temple. Mantid, mantid, mantid... vizier, mantid... guy with a sword, mantid mantid mantid, oh right, there was a blob at start. Mantid Commander.

  2. #162
    Elemental Lord Chickat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabulaniman View Post
    I second that. 5 mans are miles better than Scenarios.

    5 Mans should outnumber Scenarios 2:1 seriously. Scenarios should only be used for the occasional story telling or the solo ones on Isle of Thunder (they were pretty cool).
    I have to agree with this. I would rather have 10 dungeons and 5 really cool scenarios vs 8 dungeons and 12 meh scenarios. I also hope they make the scenarios leveling content as well. If were going to have a ton of them, we might as well have fun with them while we are leveling and everything is easy anyways.
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  3. #163
    Old God Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bison91 View Post
    forget about the number...look for quality also...even if BC had 15 instances, all of them were special (even slave pens). if MoP have 30 instances and all of them tank and spank. all bosses same and mobs...its just useles making 30 instances
    See, some people feel that BC and Wrath heroics were better in quality and quantity. Personally, I like them all. Bosses in general have gotten more interesting over the expansions in terms of mechanics and the dungeons in MoP still look great. I think what makes them less memorable to a lot of people is that they are so easy, you just burst through them.

  4. #164
    Why would anyone care about dungeons? They became crap in WOTLK, had a brief good moment at the start of Cata and atm they are in their worst state.
    Also, I would rather have 15 TBC dungeons then what we have now.

  5. #165
    The game has changed. The company has changed.

    I think there is a generation of players (myself included) who loved running 5 mans in Vanilla and TBC.

    Blizzard had simply moved away from the 5 man model and is now more focused on things like Scenarios, Garrisons, Pet Battles, LFR, etc. They include them in WoD because of the players that enjoy them, but overall it isn't Blizzard's top priority, and it hasn't been for a long time.

    The game has changed. The company has changed. Not saying it is a good or bad thing... but either get over it or move on to another game.

  6. #166
    Elemental Lord Chickat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bison91 View Post
    forget about the number...look for quality also...even if BC had 15 instances, all of them were special (even slave pens). if MoP have 30 instances and all of them tank and spank. all bosses same and mobs...its just useles making 30 instances
    Mop dungeons were only tank and spec because of the tuning. The mechanics were there, its just that you could ignore 90% of them. MoP dungeons at least when it comes to mechanics and bosses are superior to tbc if they were tuned to be more difficult. TBC dungeons had almost no mechanics. They just hit hard.
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  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinneer View Post
    What did people do in a dungeon in Vanilla? Learn the boss mechanic and kill him.
    Formed group; traveled to dungeon; got past the non-instanced part of the dungeon; complicated pulls in challenging and potentially deadly environments; looted chests; watched for random patrols including stealthed or invisible mobs; completed quests; gathered rare resources; accomplished objectives and solved puzzles; navigated complex dungeons environments while regularly skipping patrols, bosses, or even whole sections depending on the mutually agreed upon goals of the run; defeated bosses; collected loot; hearthed or portaled out.

    Quote Originally Posted by kinneer View Post
    What did people do in a dungeon in BC? Learn the boss mechanic and kill him.
    Formed group; traveled or got summoned to dungeon; complicated pulls; looted chests; watched for patrols that could sometimes include stealthed mobs; completed quests; gained rep based on the dungeon; sometimes accomplished additional objectives and solved minor puzzles; frequently skipped pulls and occasionally bosses; defeated bosses; collected loot; hearthed, portaled or sometimes took the conveniently provided exit out.

    Quote Originally Posted by kinneer View Post
    What did people do in a dungeon in WoTLK? Learn the boss mechanic and kll him.
    Queued or formed a group; often ported straight to the dungeon; AoE'd everything; slapped on a tabard to gain rep; sometimes did achievements; often skipped pulls when possible and occasionally bosses; did the quest (if any); defeated bosses; collected loot; hearthed, portaled, ported or took the conveniently provided exit out; did it again in the same or a different dungeon because it went so fast.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yrrildur View Post
    For me it would be nice to have some non raiding things to do for a while. If heroic dungeons will take anywhere from 45-60 minutes, you can do 2 on an evening and more if you have time on your hands. I can't really afford to spend 4/5 hours online in a row any more, but still would like to feel I accomplish something when I play WoW (also outside or raiding).
    To be honest I think this is a good idea. Have dungeons be 30-60 minute semi difficult experiences that reward lfr quality gear, and can be done instead of lfr. Make scenarios and normal level 100 dungeons the content you do to gear for lfr/heroic dungeons/heroic scenarios.
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  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    So we get another expansion with 10 levels to level up like TBC and Wrath, YET, they come out and say there will only be 5 new dungeons and 2 rehashed dungeons. So a total of 7 "new" dungeons? While comparing that to TBC with 15 new dungeons. That means 15 dungeons with unique bosses, loot for each boss, and varied environments.

    Is blizzard getting too comfortable with giving their player base less content just because we have grown accustomed to the lack of content in the past 2 expansions?

    I would think the casual playerbase would also be upset because that just means there is a lack of things to do for them aside from LFR (which even they dont feel is real content).

    WoD looks beautiful. I think they really shot for the stars on this expansion, I just wish they would have been more creative and focused on more 5 man content at release. I think we will get more 5 man dungeons over the course of the expansion, but it feels lame compared to 15 brand new dungeons from the get go of TBC.

    Thoughts?
    Technically, most of the BC dungeon "experience" was rehashed. Each dungeon typically shared location/tileset with at least 2 others, and most of the boss fights were rehashed mechanics from previous raid encounters that non-raiders never got to see. It was their way of letting non-raiding players experience what was a challenge at the time.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    Mop dungeons were only tank and spec because of the tuning. The mechanics were there, its just that you could ignore 90% of them. MoP dungeons at least when it comes to mechanics and bosses are superior to tbc if they were tuned to be more difficult. TBC dungeons had almost no mechanics. They just hit hard.
    I agree they had potential. But dungeons with mechanics that you can ignore are worst then dungeons without so many mechanics.

  11. #171
    Old God Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    Same art assets, right. There is such a variety of enemies in Siege of Niuzao Temple. Mantid, mantid, mantid... vizier, mantid... guy with a sword, mantid mantid mantid, oh right, there was a blob at start. Mantid Commander.
    Art assets are more than just enemies.

  12. #172
    Elemental Lord Chickat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabulaniman View Post
    They will if Blizzard think of more rewards. Valor and Rep is a start.

    Me? I do them just for fun. I love raiding ToT and SoO Flex too but 5 mans are still awesome. The problem is that they are way too easy at heroic level.

    What I propose: Start off the expansion with difficulty like Cata/TBC. (HC mode)
    BUT Keep increasing the difficulty as the expansion goes on to keep it hard AND increase the rewards to LFR levels or something.

    M
    Yes. But leave the normal level 100 dungeons alone so players can take that path and gear up through the past lfrs if they want.
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  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalmar View Post
    Why would anyone care about dungeons? They became crap in WOTLK, had a brief good moment at the start of Cata and atm they are in their worst state.
    Also, I would rather have 15 TBC dungeons then what we have now.
    No. The difference between Wrath dungeons (at the end, not at launch) and MOP dungeons is that MOP dungeons can (and still frequently do) stop/kill people for not paying attention or knowing how to play. Wrath dungeons, even for newly achieved lvl 80 characters, provided zero threat of failure or challenge at any point.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinneer View Post
    Some people just never stop complaining. Stop comparing like for like.

    WoD will new character models with new animations.

    WoD will have Garrision, a possibly new game play element.

    There has not been a lack of content. There has a change in type of contents. It seems to me that they are focusing on giving players new things to do rather than just dungeons and raids all the time. To me that is a good thing.

    What did people do in a dungeon in Vanilla? Learn the boss mechanic and kill him.

    What did people do in a dungeon in BC? Learn the boss mechanic and kill him.

    What did people do in a dungeon in WoTLK? Learn the boss mechanic and kll him.

    Dungeon run is just learning the mechanic. Otherwise, it is just the same type of gameplay, Just different looking boss and dungeon. At least Blizzard now is adding something to the game.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Wow. That is going to be interesting for certain party makeups. From what I remember of VP.
    They are adding back in level 100 normal modes for the players who find heroics to hard. So difficulty wont be an issue.
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  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyraena View Post
    No. The difference between Wrath dungeons (at the end, not at launch) and MOP dungeons is that MOP dungeons can (and still frequently do) stop/kill people for not paying attention or knowing how to play. Wrath dungeons, even for newly achieved lvl 80 characters, provided zero threat of failure or challenge at any point.
    I must say I never wiped in MoP dungeons (not counting challenge mode).

  16. #176
    WoD looks sharp man, TBC was like Terminator 2, you cannot repeat it! Deal with it.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalmar View Post
    I agree they had potential. But dungeons with mechanics that you can ignore are worst then dungeons without so many mechanics.
    They were not ignorable at the start of the expansion but as we powered up they became more ignorable. Thats the nature of becoming more powerful and happened in every single expansion. Now you can ignore the adds and just run to every boss and fights last 23 seconds. Let's be realistic and look at the chronological timeline more accurately. We have 120-130 ilevels on those mop dungeons.

  18. #178
    Elemental Lord Chickat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCBGamer View Post
    All the Auchidon dungeons used the same assets, all the Hellfire ones used the same assets. Magisters used the same assets as the raid. So thats 11 UNIQUE dungeons.

    now to make this even better for OP, who keeps remaking this thread for some reason, They said we will be getting other dungeons, I believe the number was 2, per patch this expansion. So we have 8 + at least 3, if they keep there word on 2 per patch we can expect 6 more. Meaning Warlords will have 11 to 14 Unique Dungeons. That is already as good if not better than BC.
    I think they meant 2 new dungeons per raid patch. So that would be 8 + 2 + 2 = 12 which is fine imo.
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  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    They were not ignorable at the start of the expansion but as we powered up they became more ignorable. Thats the nature of becoming more powerful and happened in every single expansion. Now you can ignore the adds and just run to every boss and fights last 23 seconds. Let's be realistic and look at the chronological timeline more accurately. We have 120-130 ilevels on those mop dungeons.
    Hm, I remember that first boss in Siege of Niuzao temple had some blobs coming to him. Not once I saw people were killing them but I am pretty sure they had to have some purpose. That abomination called Stormstout brewery was always zerg rush. First boss, move out of his attack (tank PoV). That's about it. Second boss - move away from his "swirl". Third encounter, hm, jumping?
    They were never hard, never required CC - it was always tank and spank. Only thing that's different now is that you can tank and spank thrash to boss. Before you did it with stopping once or twice.

  20. #180
    Another huge problem with the modern dungeon is their use within the context of daily valor point gain. This tends towards the design of a long hallway that can be completed in 15 minutes for maximum valor per minute.

    Wailing Caverns, Lower Blackrock Spire, and Dire Maul were not designed to be run over and over and over. If you wanted to do one of those, you needed to set aside at least an hour, and exploring the place was half of the reward. You certainly ended up going to these places multiple times, but not because you were desperately looking for a specific item. You went back because the place was large and difficult and your first attempt resulted in a key that let you skip the first half of the dungeon.

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