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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    So we get another expansion with 10 levels to level up like TBC and Wrath, YET, they come out and say there will only be 5 new dungeons and 2 rehashed dungeons. So a total of 7 "new" dungeons? While comparing that to TBC with 15 new dungeons. That means 15 dungeons with unique bosses, loot for each boss, and varied environments.

    Is blizzard getting too comfortable with giving their player base less content just because we have grown accustomed to the lack of content in the past 2 expansions?

    I would think the casual playerbase would also be upset because that just means there is a lack of things to do for them aside from LFR (which even they dont feel is real content).

    WoD looks beautiful. I think they really shot for the stars on this expansion, I just wish they would have been more creative and focused on more 5 man content at release. I think we will get more 5 man dungeons over the course of the expansion, but it feels lame compared to 15 brand new dungeons from the get go of TBC.

    Thoughts?
    I'mma just point this out:

    I was recently running some alts through dungeons for RaF leveling. I found the quality of say UBRS or Strat (in terms of texture, design, and overal 'Look and Feel') to be vastly superior to most of the Auchindoun/Hellfire dungeons. Some dungeons in TBC are better than others (specifically the ones geared to max level players. The Tempest keep dungeons, Shattered halls, Shadow Labs, etc.)

    If you compare those, side by side, to WLK dungeons, once again, there's a huge disparity in quality. Utgarde keep vs Mana tombs? UTK wins it, hands down. Nexus is gawddamn gorgeous compared to, say, Steamvaults.

    Overall, we're getting fewer dungeons that are made to a significantly higher standard.

    MoP had fewer dungeons, but they have a significantly higher standard in terms of textures clipping, texture resolution, spectral mapping.

    I don't think they can really change into a lower gear, in terms of graphical requirements per dungeon, because it'll stand out (as the rest of the game has also "Stepped it up" in a similar nature.) and scenarios were a decent option because they use existing locations and are easier to build and balance.

    I'm relatively certain that they're talking about the amount at launch. There will most likely be more added in later patches.
    They did mention they were considering adding more, and also adding additional difficulties of existing ones so we won't have Heroic-Zandalari-Grind-mark-2.

  2. #202
    Warchief Themerlin's Avatar
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    TBC RULZ!

    WoD is gonna be ...

    Meh...
    “Life is and will ever remain an equation incapable of solution, but it contains certain known factors.”

  3. #203
    Deleted
    lol tbc didn't have 15 dungeons. 15 scenario's maybe, but they aren't dungeon worthy.

    TBC dungeons = MOP HC scenarios and even mop hc scens are bigger.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    -you can collect a currency that you can exchange for raidgear that is not gated
    That's been true of heroics since TBC.

  5. #205
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Hikashuri View Post
    lol tbc didn't have 15 dungeons. 15 scenario's maybe, but they aren't dungeon worthy.

    TBC dungeons = MOP HC scenarios and even mop hc scens are bigger.
    Scenarios are garbage. Don't even dare to compare them to dungeons of ANY expansion.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by mercutiouk View Post
    Thing is though, to a point he's quite right. Yes, TBC development was way longer (though... who knows how long they've been working on WoD...?). While, yes, they are adding more content in patches (which is a good way to go) it's still a BIT weak that they can't add a LITTLE more flavour to go with a new expansion.

    Totally understand the business case - minimum needed to forgo x% of complaints about it but still... 5 is a pretty small number of 5 mans to ship with.

    I'm pretty neutral on the love/hate of Blizz, so there will be plenty of opinions on the matter from those towards either end of the scale but 5... it's a time travel expansion, ideas can't really be too short, pretty much anything COULD fit. 10 seems a much better figure. If the team is so much larger as we are being told then the usual reply of "we don't have resources, we can't hire just anyone" etc don't really wash.
    Completely agree. The lack of 5 man content is really killing my enjoyment of MOP. I'm still doing LFR to experience it, but i think very soon i'll be out of content to consume/enjoy. In the past I could run 5 mans with friends, but i can't do that now with any real reason due to the absolutely shitty rewards.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    I found every one of the BC 5 mans interesting and fun in their own ways. When people claim that the environments are not varied in the wing dungeons, thats complete bullshit.

    Different architecture, different lighting, different enemies. Just because the THEME was similar did not mean that it was a rehash of the first dungeon they put in that wing of dungeons.

    I go into ramparts and i feel as if i am outside a large fortress,

    Same with the serpent shrine cavern dungeons, same with the tempest keep dungeons. They all look simliar in theme, but they each individually feel distinct, and varied. "
    You know what's funny about this rant? You completely left out Auchindoun, which is shamelessly the same dungeon four times.

  8. #208
    If there was only 5 levels to max, and not 10, I wouldn't be bothered with 6 dungeons and 2 rehashed at release. However, since it's 10, it's almost like at certain levels you do certain dungeons. It's gonna suck when you're, for example, level 93 and you're just like "Ugh not this dungeon again"
    No thanks Blizzard more dungeons plz

  9. #209
    I know its broken record moad, but BC dungeons were horrible. Grindy, repetitive, slow dungeons. Very meh. Definitely a MUCH higher quality now, even tho the quantity of literally discrete, instanced zones is lower.

  10. #210
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Efrye View Post
    Scenarios are garbage. Don't even dare to compare them to dungeons of ANY expansion.
    Which is exactly what I think about TBC dungeons. The real dungeons emerged at the start of wrath.

    The best dungeons were Cataclysm, the ones that shipped with launch, the added ones besides za/zg were meh.

    Quality > Quantity. Having 15 dungeons that are identical isn't really having 15 dungeons, that's scenario level.

  11. #211
    In burning crusade, 5 man dungeons where the primary thing to do if you couldnt raid.

    Now if you cant get into a normal raid you have several LFRaids, Scenarios. Daily quests (or in WoD Events you can seek out yourself).

    ----------------

    Though one thing i'm confused about....there are actually people that are going to be running dungeons before 6.1? I have an entire continent to quest in and 2 or 3 garrisons to pimp out before i even touch any group content.

    Psh...dungeons...

  12. #212
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ledecor View Post
    If there was only 5 levels to max, and not 10, I wouldn't be bothered with 6 dungeons and 2 rehashed at release. However, since it's 10, it's almost like at certain levels you do certain dungeons. It's gonna suck when you're, for example, level 93 and you're just like "Ugh not this dungeon again"
    No thanks Blizzard more dungeons plz
    You will always have that, regardless of the amount they bring out. Plus scenario's will be used for leveling aswell, and grant similar xp.

    So it's not gonna be like omg this dungeon again, you'll have scenario's aswell, which have no queue and are faster.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    I found every one of the BC 5 mans interesting and fun in their own ways. When people claim that the environments are not varied in the wing dungeons, thats complete bullshit.

    Different architecture, different lighting, different enemies. Just because the THEME was similar did not mean that it was a rehash of the first dungeon they put in that wing of dungeons.

    I go into ramparts and i feel as if i am outside a large fortress, and I am killing bosses and enemies there to protect the fortress entrance. I enter blood furnace and I feel a huge demonic presence. Fel orcs doing twisted things, warlocks summoning demons, fel demons and engineers throwing dynamite at you and dropping bombs. The bosses are way much more varied than ramparts. I go into shattered halls and its a completely different feel from blood furnace and ramparts. It feels more harsh, warriory, rugged, spikey. It feels like the enemies there are brutal warriors. Theres enemies with guns, axes, fire arrows, gauntlet, a huge ogre, fire and brimstone. It feels totally different. Just because the architecture's theme is similar does not mean its a rehash of another dungeon. It is a completely different experience.

    Same with the serpent shrine cavern dungeons, same with the tempest keep dungeons. They all look simliar in theme, but they each individually feel distinct, and varied. Same with the Wotlk 5 mans that were added with ICC. Stop playing that bs card of "oh hey BC dungeons were all rehashes because they belonged in the same wing of dungeons"
    The dungeons rehashed in Cata and MOP were no different in terms of all the differences you mention. That being the case, you obviously are pro-rehash then, amirite? I mean, they only share style with the original, not lighting, or bosses, or trash, or anything else. the fight were new, and vastly more interesting and fun too.

    Sorry, thematic similarity make it hard for the first one, and easy for the next # in the same theme. There is no difference in what you say in support of BC dungeons, and against Cata/MOP/WoD rehashes.

  14. #214
    Scenarios are garbage
    I found Scenarios before they took out loot, or but especially heroic scenarios to be the funnest content. Skill and ability meant Victory. If you didnt do it perfect victory with a lower case V. People are simultaneously able to work as a group but contribute greatly individually.

    Further more they put more RP/LORE into your dungeon so you can Lore while you dungeon. More story intensive since the mechanics aren't based on "trifecta" balance

  15. #215
    I wouldn't be shocked if the reason they are doing this is they are going to add a bunch of 5 mans throughout WoD.

    Instead of doing Wrath where they added a total of 4, I think this time they will add 5-7 every tier. (As a note its confirmed they will add more, its listed as on their "what is WoD" site.)

    Doing it this way makes more sense as, ya, 12 5 mans would be fun. But what about when they don't add anymore? It makes sense to spread it out.

    This would also make sense in that their likely new non-raider endgame will probably look like this: LFR=heroic dungeon=open world/garrisons. If the end game looks anywhere close to that (they've been hinting strongly at it since Blizzcon), they HAVE to have a large amount of added 5 mans every tier.

  16. #216
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    Im sad since i live for dungeon crawling. The forced RP story modes really ruined most MoP dungeons. This problem was fore-shadowed in CoT Stratholme.

    It saddens me that the company that gave us Diablo, could screw up the dungeon crawling format in its latest 2 realeases, Diablo 3 and MoP.

  17. #217
    Looking at some of their tweets, you can see what happened during MoP. They thought everyone would be content with LFR as their end game gearing. While many like that, many also would've preferred options instead of being forced into LFR for their only source of gear.

    Hence, their complete abandonment of 5 mans. This time, they've said "ya, running LFR for months isn't the most compelling gameplay in the world for most." Which is why they said they will add more 5 mans throughout this time.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker76 View Post
    Im sad since i live for dungeon crawling. The forced RP story modes really ruined most MoP dungeons. This problem was fore-shadowed in CoT Stratholme.

    It saddens me that the company that gave us Diablo, could screw up the dungeon crawling format in its latest 2 realeases, Diablo 3 and MoP.
    Just because you dont like it, doesnt mean it is "screwed up".

    It being a grind fest was well and good when it was the only way to advance to getting ready for Raiding, and some of the only content most people could play at max level.

    But now that it isnt that way they can put some actual effort into bring the World back into "World of Warcraft".

    The only thing 'bad" about CoT STratholme was the fact that you couldnt skip the intro if no one had done the quest yet.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    So we get another expansion with 10 levels to level up like TBC and Wrath, YET, they come out and say there will only be 5 new dungeons and 2 rehashed dungeons. So a total of 7 "new" dungeons? While comparing that to TBC with 15 new dungeons. That means 15 dungeons with unique bosses, loot for each boss, and varied environments.

    Is blizzard getting too comfortable with giving their player base less content just because we have grown accustomed to the lack of content in the past 2 expansions?

    I would think the casual playerbase would also be upset because that just means there is a lack of things to do for them aside from LFR (which even they dont feel is real content).

    WoD looks beautiful. I think they really shot for the stars on this expansion, I just wish they would have been more creative and focused on more 5 man content at release. I think we will get more 5 man dungeons over the course of the expansion, but it feels lame compared to 15 brand new dungeons from the get go of TBC.

    Thoughts?
    Sorry friend but at release BC had only 14 dungeons. You got that many because of the design of the expansion. You ran the first 2 on normal til honored then the last one until exalted on normal difficulty or all 3 on heroic until exalted. It seems the idea behind WoD isn't for players to farm dungeons to gain faction rep or they would naturally have made more. My guess is they have other things for players to do besides mindlessly run 5 mans for a year or two.

  20. #220
    You conveniently forget that those "15" dungeons used the same environments recycled over and over with just a minor tweak here and there. Mana-Tombs, Shadow Labyrinth Auchenai Cripts, and Sektekk Halls all used the same environments, so that's ONE.

    Slave Pens, Underbog and Steamvault all used the same environments, so that's TWO.

    Hellfire Ramparts, Blood Furnace, and Shattered Halls all used the exact same environments, so that's THREE.

    Mechanar, Botanica, and Arcatraz all used the same environments, so that's FOUR.

    And then we have the other instances which rather than offer new environments, just recycled props from the zones in the game. Old Hillsbrad was just a copy-paste of Hillsbrad. Black Morass was just a copy-paste of Swamp of Sorrows. Magister Terrace was just a copypaste of every blood elf building we've seen.

    In total, we got 4 new environments recycled multiple times for several dungeons, and 3 dungeons who couldn't even do that and instead just copied environments from the zones in the game.

    Ohh yes, the superior quality OOZES on those production values. See how things work when you take off the nostalgia goggles?

    Por que odiar si amar es mas dulce? (*^_^*)

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