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  1. #361
    Banned Jaylock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon138 View Post
    What's silly is that the mobs don't pull when you CC mobs near them now...how much more carebear can you get?
    They made a bunch of ridiculous and unnecessary changes to the way mob mechanics and dungeons work to appease the entitled crowd who just wanted quick dungeon runs.

    Blizzard will never be the same company making quality games again, and WoD will attempt to recapture some of their lost audience, but I think its too little too late.

    People are just thinking of this expansion as a large patch that you have to pay for, as another attempt for blizzard to milk the customer base.

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    They made a bunch of ridiculous and unnecessary changes to the way mob mechanics and dungeons work to appease the entitled crowd who just wanted quick dungeon runs.

    Blizzard will never be the same company making quality games again, and WoD will attempt to recapture some of their lost audience, but I think its too little too late.

    People are just thinking of this expansion as a large patch that you have to pay for, as another attempt for blizzard to milk the customer base.
    Jaylock - in touch with the common man in ways that the common man is not.

  3. #363
    Stood in the Fire KBWarriors's Avatar
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    People are just thinking of this expansion as a large patch that you have to pay for, as another attempt for blizzard to milk the customer base.
    That's honestly where I'm at anymore.

    I look at Diablo 3 - Reaper of Souls and all I see is a glorified content patch that's going to charge people $40. A lot of the features in that game should have been added a long time ago and the fact that it took them a whole freaking year to implement the changes they have is just baffling to me. What they have all 70 of their developers working on puzzles me..

    Warlords of Draenor - "Garrisons" is basically a long term MoP Farm. They're going to gate the entire thing through the whole expansion so that people have a reason to stay subscribed (Legendary Cloak anyone?)

    I'm getting mixed feelings about WoD. They promise they want to bring back the challenge many players feel is gone, but now they're making the game even easier.

    Level 90s Galore - Why level if you're a brand new player when you can just open up that wallet! Cha ching!
    Teritary Stats - They made a long blog about this, but it's basically a way of saying, "yes.. we know people are dumb and are too lazy to open up AskMrRobot, so we'll just make it even easier." Or their excuse which is "Well, people were just reforging to the same blah blah blah."
    Adventure Guide - From what I've heard.. this will help tell you where to level. I guess putting the Levels on the map and the Calls to Arms (whatever it's called) board simply wasn't enough and people had no idea where to go. Plus, the linear questing system makes it nearly impossible to screw up, to the point where leveling is a joke and tedious.

    At this point, the official WoW forums is mostly full of people who get fully erect at the thought of them adding more in-game shop content such as pets/mounts and some of them even request more stuff to be in the store.

    As far as I'm concerned, there's a huge lack of real gamers playing the MMO market these days and the companies are ran by investors rather than true nerds like Morhaime. Maybe Morhaime truly just doesn't give a flying rats ass anymore and he just bends over for his Activi$ion overlords.

    Honestly, I'm scared to see what the future of WoW will look like in 2 years. Will raid gear start being sold? Will Heroic runs be sold, as you stand in and a bunch of highly skilled bots do the run for you? I know people think the idea of them selling anything other than cosmetics are preposterous.. but I don't consider skipping level 1-90 as cosmetic at all. I've heard rumors about upcoming features they're going to sell.

    TLDR - It's sad to see how far this mighty giant has fallen. As far as I'm concerned.. Blizzard Entertainment is the new Electronic Arts.

    I just cling on to news to see what's coming up and I might browse some forum posts once in a while. The magic for me is long gone and Blizzard is now just a milking machine.

    /out

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ytlayol View Post
    I don't know, blizzard just has some really type of special fans who ask for less. I can't think of any other game whos fans defend the company for skimping on content. It is sad.

    Oh well, I guess they can't afford to put that much money into the game. It isn't like they have a sub fee, cash shop, micro transactions, and box sales to fund it.
    Well, they do still have to finish Bobby Kotick's collection of olympic-sized swimming pools filled with cash.
    "In today’s America, conservatives who actually want to conserve are as rare as liberals who actually want to liberate. The once-significant language of an earlier era has had the meaning sucked right out of it, the better to serve as camouflage for a kleptocratic feeding frenzy in which both establishment parties participate with equal abandon" (Taking a break from the criminal, incompetent liars at the NSA, to bring you the above political observation, from The Archdruid Report.)

  5. #365
    why the big fuss bro dungeons dont say relative long enough to get so worked up about it

  6. #366
    I haven't had a problem with anything blizzard does. I will also keep paying a subscription and buy the expansion without hesitation as its something I enjoy. Blizzard is great in my book, I'm sorry you guys feel so screwed but to each their own I guess.

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Casual View Post
    why the big fuss bro dungeons dont say relative long enough to get so worked up about it
    I guess the real issue here is to point out that Blizzards playerbase and die hard fanbois who defend each and every decision made by blizzard are all willing to accept less content for each new expansion. Blizzard has effectively trained you to not expect many dungeons, and has told you, you should be happy with our company now that you can do a watered down easy mode version of our raid encounters.

    Its quite sad, and i'm all in aggreance with KBWarriors.

    Its really quite funny as well to see people actually defend 5 dungeons and 2 rehashes as great and quality work by the developers. Even IF the two rehashed dungeons are completely different with lore, and doodads and monsters, the fact remains they started with an already completed dungeon as their groundwork to give as "new and exciting content."

    At least with dungeon wings like SSC, and TK, and Hellfire, there are completely different dungeon layouts, different environments with similar tone (obviously because of the environment in which the dungeon theme takes place)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pallyopness View Post
    I haven't had a problem with anything blizzard does. I will also keep paying a subscription and buy the expansion without hesitation as its something I enjoy. Blizzard is great in my book, I'm sorry you guys feel so screwed but to each their own I guess.
    When did you start playing WoW?

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    I guess the real issue here is to point out that Blizzards playerbase and die hard fanbois who defend each and every decision made by blizzard are all willing to accept less content for each new expansion. Blizzard has effectively trained you to not expect many dungeons, and has told you, you should be happy with our company now that you can do a watered down easy mode version of our raid encounters.

    Its quite sad, and i'm all in aggreance with KBWarriors.

    Its really quite funny as well to see people actually defend 5 dungeons and 2 rehashes as great and quality work by the developers. Even IF the two rehashed dungeons are completely different with lore, and doodads and monsters, the fact remains they started with an already completed dungeon as their groundwork to give as "new and exciting content."

    At least with dungeon wings like SSC, and TK, and Hellfire, there are completely different dungeon layouts, different environments with similar tone (obviously because of the environment in which the dungeon theme takes place)

    - - - Updated - - -



    When did you start playing WoW?
    I bought Burning Crusade when it was released (well the first week of release anyway) and have never been unsubscribed since. I have raided every tier as well since that time.

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    I guess the real issue here is to point out that Blizzards playerbase and die hard fanbois who defend each and every decision made by blizzard are all willing to accept less content for each new expansion. Blizzard has effectively trained you to not expect many dungeons, and has told you, you should be happy with our company now that you can do a watered down easy mode version of our raid encounters.
    So what does that make you?

    So Blizzard are releasing less than dungeons at launch than previous XP. And that equate to less content to you. You may consider dungeons and raid to be the only contents worth considering but not everyone sees it that way.

  10. #370
    Stood in the Fire KBWarriors's Avatar
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    What's most amazing to me is how this community loves spending money.

    I have never seen a community before openly want so many paid features to be added to a game. When EA makes a game or adds DLC, there's rage through out the internet, but when Blizzard does it.. casuals and debit card warriors rejoice. I really don't understand it.

    I saw one person defend this by saying EA releases stuff with bugs. I sincerely hope they're kidding.. it's a widely known fact Blizzard doesn't give a rats ass about feedback and bug reports on beta tests, they're only marketing hypes. There's a reason that big streamers and YouTubers get first hands on Beta tests and it's not because they thoroughly test the game.

    If you look hard enough, Blizzard cuts so many corners to make sure they don't spend as little money as possible.

    Example #1: Look at the login screen for the Humans. Look closely at the tree on the right (where your character selection screen is). You will notice they actually copy/pasted a tree doodad over top of the bushes which caused horrible clipping and just didn't care enough to blend it in or put it behind bushes.

    Example #2: Stretched Textures - All over the game there are textures that they simply stretched out to make them fit, rather than rendering new texture models. Look at Gu'chi the Swarmbringer. They simply took a small bug, colored him differently and stretched his texture out to make his skin. The tops of arches in Padnaria also have this effect.

    Example #3: Scenarios - They can spin this any way they want, but they were hoping that these time-saving 3 man scenarios would be replacing 5 mans. Scenarios are pointless and effortless. Even Heroic Scenarios are trivial with three derp DPS pulling 70k.

    The honest reason they love Scenarios so much is because they don't have to design a new environment.. they can just put some quest/event strings into the game, throw a re-skinned boss in the end and call it a day.

    I've been a Blizzfanboy since 2000 but I'm powerless to do anything as I watch them spiral down into a fallen giant. I don't think they're going to bring any of the lost subs back and if I had to guess, I would say by the next expansion, we'll have 3-4 million subscribers left, right where we started.

    The problem is: They think that their forums are a vocal majority. I never meet people in-game that share the same opinions as the entitled leeches on their forums. They keep making design decisions based on the whining casual players on their forums and look what it's done for them so far. They're almost down half from what their prime (13 million) was.

    Teritary stats, adventure guide, 5 dungeons, 2 raids, buy able level 90s, easier gearing up is NOT the way to fix this issue. This is the kind of crap that's driving people away from this game, not encouraging them to stick towards it. I honestly think, now they're just going to milk the franchise for as long as possible and once it's dead, Activi$ion will cut off loose ends with Blizzard and move onto the next company to suck dry.

    Maybe i'm wrong though, I guess we can only wait and see.
    Last edited by KBWarriors; 2014-01-27 at 10:45 PM.

  11. #371
    Oh were you hoping i bought the game in cata or wrath? Sorry but despite what posters on MMO-C believe there are plenty of people who are quite happy with the product blizz creates. I also don't see BC as the best expansion....OMG HE DIDNT SAY THAT!!!!!! I enjoy World of Warcraft, each expansion is just new raid content for me lol. Im not the nostalgialistic type I guess. So each expansion to me is always good and I enjoy it. I don't dive into the inner design philosophies of game designers or developers......I just play the damn game and enjoy it.

  12. #372
    Deleted
    People dont care about dungeons anymore, why should blizz?

  13. #373
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    I guess the real issue here is to point out that Blizzards playerbase and die hard fanbois who defend each and every decision made by blizzard are all willing to accept less content for each new expansion. Blizzard has effectively trained you to not expect many dungeons, and has told you, you should be happy with our company now that you can do a watered down easy mode version of our raid encounters.
    Blizzard trained you to think that more dungeons equals more content, and they trained recent players to believe that there are other types of content besides dungeons. Using rhetoric doesn't make your argument better. You like and identify with 5 man content, so you value that more, but it's deceitful to pretend that the number of 5 man dungeons is the sole, or even primary metric for measuring the amount of content in an expansion.

    These issue have nothing to do with the amount of content in the expansion, they have to do with what and how content is prioritized. You're just framing this into a content volume issue so you can pretend that there's a metric that backs up your preferences. I personally would like more dungeons, and more reasons to run them, but I'm not going to make up metrics in order to prove that I'm entitled to it.

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    So we get another expansion with 10 levels to level up like TBC and Wrath, YET, they come out and say there will only be 5 new dungeons and 2 rehashed dungeons. So a total of 7 "new" dungeons? While comparing that to TBC with 15 new dungeons. That means 15 dungeons with unique bosses, loot for each boss, and varied environments.

    Is blizzard getting too comfortable with giving their player base less content just because we have grown accustomed to the lack of content in the past 2 expansions?

    I would think the casual playerbase would also be upset because that just means there is a lack of things to do for them aside from LFR (which even they dont feel is real content).

    WoD looks beautiful. I think they really shot for the stars on this expansion, I just wish they would have been more creative and focused on more 5 man content at release. I think we will get more 5 man dungeons over the course of the expansion, but it feels lame compared to 15 brand new dungeons from the get go of TBC.

    Thoughts?
    So here is my thought, TBC brought us 15 - 5 mans. it brought 2 races, Paladins for both Factions, Flying, and Jewelcrafting/Sockets.

    In terms of Casual Content, really this breaks down to 5 man instances... a lot of them, that you had to sit in trade for a while to get into, or run with friends.

    Look at the Casual Content for WoD - 7 Dungeons, so far. Garrisons, which have been said to be progression worthy, in other words everyone will have and work their Garrison, no exceptions, and anyone can run a Garrison. I'm going to add to this what I believe are also going to come along. Challenge Modes... I know a lot of the player base loved them, who knows how they will evolve, they are the upper end of casual content. Proving Grounds, we have one layer of them now, its very possible there will be more, at lower and higher levels than MoP, more things Casuals can do, and enjoy progressing and excelling at. Maybe improvements to the pet battle system, no idea how that might change, its quite possible we will be able to go to level 30 with our pets. Pet Glyphs/Talents? The system is pretty open to improvements and changes. Epic pet stones have been in the code for a while, its very obvious we will get that eventually. This on top of new pets of course. More Archaeology? ... ? (oh yeah forgot Scenarios... I would expect them to get harder)

    You see back in TBC ... this game was MUCH less complex. Just out of Vanilla, there was almost none of the things you take for granted today as a casual. You know what I did back in Vanilla for casual content? I farmed Twilight texts, and tried to solo stuff as a Rogue to see how far I could push the class. That was about it. Now I have so much to do, I have no idea how to fit it all into the little time I have to play. Casuals have a Plethora of things to do and Blizzard has to put time into improving and adjusting each of them each new expansion. The more things they add, the more they have to "upgrade" every time. Every profession gets tweaks that have to be balanced. The Gear / Time Spend curve has to be just right to give people enough to do, without too much to be able to advance to Raids quick enough. Things have to be replayable, Achievements, Challenge Modes, etc. All of those have to be tuned, added and coded. Can you imagine Vanilla wow with Achievements? TBC with Achievements?! Challenge Modes!!! The expansion already took decades of farming out of my life just to keep up with a raid lifestyle.
    Last edited by Concequence; 2014-01-27 at 11:16 PM.
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  15. #375
    Banned Beazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    So we get another expansion with 10 levels to level up like TBC and Wrath, YET, they come out and say there will only be 5 new dungeons and 2 rehashed dungeons. So a total of 7 "new" dungeons? While comparing that to TBC with 15 new dungeons. That means 15 dungeons with unique bosses, loot for each boss, and varied environments.

    Is blizzard getting too comfortable with giving their player base less content just because we have grown accustomed to the lack of content in the past 2 expansions?

    I would think the casual playerbase would also be upset because that just means there is a lack of things to do for them aside from LFR (which even they dont feel is real content).

    WoD looks beautiful. I think they really shot for the stars on this expansion, I just wish they would have been more creative and focused on more 5 man content at release. I think we will get more 5 man dungeons over the course of the expansion, but it feels lame compared to 15 brand new dungeons from the get go of TBC.

    Thoughts?
    Does that mean that BC was garbage too, seeing how it didn't release with the same amount of dungeons as Vanilla?

  16. #376
    Because they continue to insist that everyone must be brought up to current raiding level item-wise, there is no point in them making many 5mans. From their perspective, anyway. If they'd stop being dumb and actually let people experience a journey when gearing up rather than just grinding points to get the newest shinies and then jumping into a new raiding tier before finishing the last tier... Well, then there'd be a point in 5mans, since people would be doing them. But there isn't, because they continue this ridiculous strategy that requires they churn out raids at a crazy pace.

  17. #377
    Deleted
    I guess I understand now the kind of players Blizzard is talking about who complain when dungeons are not fully unique in art which in turn means the developers have to put in far more resources to make them that the developers didnt find them cost effective.

    Personally rehashed zone art is better than no dungeon. Well as long as its not a single room dungeon like ToC.
    You misunderstood. I was merely stating that it was, in fact, 5 instances with wings. I was not complaining at all about the dungeons in TBC.

  18. #378
    The amount of dungeons they launch with isn't the deciding factor as to whether they are fun. What is important is that they are good and that they continue to release new dungeons throughout the expansion.

  19. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBWarriors View Post
    What's most amazing to me is how this community loves spending money.

    I have never seen a community before openly want so many paid features to be added to a game. When EA makes a game or adds DLC, there's rage through out the internet, but when Blizzard does it.. casuals and debit card warriors rejoice. I really don't understand it.
    I'm sorry but you're wrong. Just look at these forums, there is raging all the time about almost anything Blizzard does with their game. In fact, it's EA that gets away with more DLCs and money grabbing techniques, I mean they're practically begging for money and their games still sell well.
    What you're doing is narrowing your vision to only those examples you want to see, not the whole picture. You see a few people that are defending Blizzard, and suddenly every Blizzard fan is the same to you.
    And also, for the rest of your post: Really? You're going to be that nit-picky for examples 1 and two? Because of small details like that, you think they don't give a damn about the game? Way to exaggerate there.
    And regarding the forums part, you're wrong again. I don't know if you're just bad at paying attention, but in case you didn't notice, Blizzard themselves said that they don't make decisions based on forum posts alone, because they know damn well the forums are the minority.
    And you think that casual players are the whining entitled leeches on the forums? Oh my, you really don't look in the mirror much do you? If anything, it's people that want the game harder and feel entitled to rewards because they spend more time on a video game that are whining on the forums all the time. Luckily, Blizzard prefers to make their decisions on data collected in game and not just forum posts.
    Last edited by mmocce61358ae0; 2014-01-28 at 12:49 AM. Reason: typo

  20. #380
    Deleted
    5-2=3=half life 3
    Jokes aside i think 7 big and immersive dungeons could wirk out better than 100 shor
    t'n boring dungeons.

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