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  1. #381
    Stood in the Fire KBWarriors's Avatar
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    What's most amazing to me is how this community loves spending money.

    I have never seen a community before openly want so many paid features to be added to a game. When EA makes a game or adds DLC, there's rage through out the internet, but when Blizzard does it.. casuals and debit card warriors rejoice. I really don't understand it.

    I saw one person defend this by saying EA releases stuff with bugs. I sincerely hope they're kidding.. it's a widely known fact Blizzard doesn't give a rats ass about feedback and bug reports on beta tests, they're only marketing hypes. There's a reason that big streamers and YouTubers get first hands on Beta tests and it's not because they thoroughly test the game.

    If you look hard enough, Blizzard cuts so many corners to make sure they don't spend as little money as possible.

    Example #1: Look at the login screen for the Humans. Look closely at the tree on the right (where your character selection screen is). You will notice they actually copy/pasted a tree doodad over top of the bushes which caused horrible clipping and just didn't care enough to blend it in or put it behind bushes.

    Example #2: Stretched Textures - All over the game there are textures that they simply stretched out to make them fit, rather than rendering new texture models. Look at Gu'chi the Swarmbringer. They simply took a small bug, colored him differently and stretched his texture out to make his skin. The tops of arches in Padnaria also have this effect.

    Example #3: Scenarios - They can spin this any way they want, but they were hoping that these time-saving 3 man scenarios would be replacing 5 mans. Scenarios are pointless and effortless. Even Heroic Scenarios are trivial with three derp DPS pulling 70k.

    The honest reason they love Scenarios so much is because they don't have to design a new environment.. they can just put some quest/event strings into the game, throw a re-skinned boss in the end and call it a day.

    I've been a Blizzfanboy since 2000 but I'm powerless to do anything as I watch them spiral down into a fallen giant. I don't think they're going to bring any of the lost subs back and if I had to guess, I would say by the next expansion, we'll have 3-4 million subscribers left, right where we started.

    The problem is: They think that their forums are a vocal majority. I never meet people in-game that share the same opinions as the entitled leeches on their forums. They keep making design decisions based on the whining casual players on their forums and look what it's done for them so far. They're almost down half from what their prime (13 million) was.

    Teritary stats, adventure guide, 5 dungeons, 2 raids, buy able level 90s, easier gearing up is NOT the way to fix this issue. This is the kind of crap that's driving people away from this game, not encouraging them to stick towards it. I honestly think, now they're just going to milk the franchise for as long as possible and once it's dead, Activi$ion will cut off loose ends with Blizzard and move onto the next company to suck dry.

    Maybe i'm wrong though, I guess we can only wait and see.
    Last edited by KBWarriors; 2014-01-27 at 10:45 PM.

  2. #382
    Oh were you hoping i bought the game in cata or wrath? Sorry but despite what posters on MMO-C believe there are plenty of people who are quite happy with the product blizz creates. I also don't see BC as the best expansion....OMG HE DIDNT SAY THAT!!!!!! I enjoy World of Warcraft, each expansion is just new raid content for me lol. Im not the nostalgialistic type I guess. So each expansion to me is always good and I enjoy it. I don't dive into the inner design philosophies of game designers or developers......I just play the damn game and enjoy it.

  3. #383
    People dont care about dungeons anymore, why should blizz?

  4. #384
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    I guess the real issue here is to point out that Blizzards playerbase and die hard fanbois who defend each and every decision made by blizzard are all willing to accept less content for each new expansion. Blizzard has effectively trained you to not expect many dungeons, and has told you, you should be happy with our company now that you can do a watered down easy mode version of our raid encounters.
    Blizzard trained you to think that more dungeons equals more content, and they trained recent players to believe that there are other types of content besides dungeons. Using rhetoric doesn't make your argument better. You like and identify with 5 man content, so you value that more, but it's deceitful to pretend that the number of 5 man dungeons is the sole, or even primary metric for measuring the amount of content in an expansion.

    These issue have nothing to do with the amount of content in the expansion, they have to do with what and how content is prioritized. You're just framing this into a content volume issue so you can pretend that there's a metric that backs up your preferences. I personally would like more dungeons, and more reasons to run them, but I'm not going to make up metrics in order to prove that I'm entitled to it.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    So we get another expansion with 10 levels to level up like TBC and Wrath, YET, they come out and say there will only be 5 new dungeons and 2 rehashed dungeons. So a total of 7 "new" dungeons? While comparing that to TBC with 15 new dungeons. That means 15 dungeons with unique bosses, loot for each boss, and varied environments.

    Is blizzard getting too comfortable with giving their player base less content just because we have grown accustomed to the lack of content in the past 2 expansions?

    I would think the casual playerbase would also be upset because that just means there is a lack of things to do for them aside from LFR (which even they dont feel is real content).

    WoD looks beautiful. I think they really shot for the stars on this expansion, I just wish they would have been more creative and focused on more 5 man content at release. I think we will get more 5 man dungeons over the course of the expansion, but it feels lame compared to 15 brand new dungeons from the get go of TBC.

    Thoughts?
    So here is my thought, TBC brought us 15 - 5 mans. it brought 2 races, Paladins for both Factions, Flying, and Jewelcrafting/Sockets.

    In terms of Casual Content, really this breaks down to 5 man instances... a lot of them, that you had to sit in trade for a while to get into, or run with friends.

    Look at the Casual Content for WoD - 7 Dungeons, so far. Garrisons, which have been said to be progression worthy, in other words everyone will have and work their Garrison, no exceptions, and anyone can run a Garrison. I'm going to add to this what I believe are also going to come along. Challenge Modes... I know a lot of the player base loved them, who knows how they will evolve, they are the upper end of casual content. Proving Grounds, we have one layer of them now, its very possible there will be more, at lower and higher levels than MoP, more things Casuals can do, and enjoy progressing and excelling at. Maybe improvements to the pet battle system, no idea how that might change, its quite possible we will be able to go to level 30 with our pets. Pet Glyphs/Talents? The system is pretty open to improvements and changes. Epic pet stones have been in the code for a while, its very obvious we will get that eventually. This on top of new pets of course. More Archaeology? ... ? (oh yeah forgot Scenarios... I would expect them to get harder)

    You see back in TBC ... this game was MUCH less complex. Just out of Vanilla, there was almost none of the things you take for granted today as a casual. You know what I did back in Vanilla for casual content? I farmed Twilight texts, and tried to solo stuff as a Rogue to see how far I could push the class. That was about it. Now I have so much to do, I have no idea how to fit it all into the little time I have to play. Casuals have a Plethora of things to do and Blizzard has to put time into improving and adjusting each of them each new expansion. The more things they add, the more they have to "upgrade" every time. Every profession gets tweaks that have to be balanced. The Gear / Time Spend curve has to be just right to give people enough to do, without too much to be able to advance to Raids quick enough. Things have to be replayable, Achievements, Challenge Modes, etc. All of those have to be tuned, added and coded. Can you imagine Vanilla wow with Achievements? TBC with Achievements?! Challenge Modes!!! The expansion already took decades of farming out of my life just to keep up with a raid lifestyle.
    Last edited by Concequence; 2014-01-27 at 11:16 PM.
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  6. #386
    Herald of the Titans Beazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    So we get another expansion with 10 levels to level up like TBC and Wrath, YET, they come out and say there will only be 5 new dungeons and 2 rehashed dungeons. So a total of 7 "new" dungeons? While comparing that to TBC with 15 new dungeons. That means 15 dungeons with unique bosses, loot for each boss, and varied environments.

    Is blizzard getting too comfortable with giving their player base less content just because we have grown accustomed to the lack of content in the past 2 expansions?

    I would think the casual playerbase would also be upset because that just means there is a lack of things to do for them aside from LFR (which even they dont feel is real content).

    WoD looks beautiful. I think they really shot for the stars on this expansion, I just wish they would have been more creative and focused on more 5 man content at release. I think we will get more 5 man dungeons over the course of the expansion, but it feels lame compared to 15 brand new dungeons from the get go of TBC.

    Thoughts?
    Does that mean that BC was garbage too, seeing how it didn't release with the same amount of dungeons as Vanilla?

  7. #387
    Because they continue to insist that everyone must be brought up to current raiding level item-wise, there is no point in them making many 5mans. From their perspective, anyway. If they'd stop being dumb and actually let people experience a journey when gearing up rather than just grinding points to get the newest shinies and then jumping into a new raiding tier before finishing the last tier... Well, then there'd be a point in 5mans, since people would be doing them. But there isn't, because they continue this ridiculous strategy that requires they churn out raids at a crazy pace.

  8. #388
    The Patient Paladinne1's Avatar
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    I guess I understand now the kind of players Blizzard is talking about who complain when dungeons are not fully unique in art which in turn means the developers have to put in far more resources to make them that the developers didnt find them cost effective.

    Personally rehashed zone art is better than no dungeon. Well as long as its not a single room dungeon like ToC.
    You misunderstood. I was merely stating that it was, in fact, 5 instances with wings. I was not complaining at all about the dungeons in TBC.
    [sic]

  9. #389
    The amount of dungeons they launch with isn't the deciding factor as to whether they are fun. What is important is that they are good and that they continue to release new dungeons throughout the expansion.

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by KBWarriors View Post
    What's most amazing to me is how this community loves spending money.

    I have never seen a community before openly want so many paid features to be added to a game. When EA makes a game or adds DLC, there's rage through out the internet, but when Blizzard does it.. casuals and debit card warriors rejoice. I really don't understand it.
    I'm sorry but you're wrong. Just look at these forums, there is raging all the time about almost anything Blizzard does with their game. In fact, it's EA that gets away with more DLCs and money grabbing techniques, I mean they're practically begging for money and their games still sell well.
    What you're doing is narrowing your vision to only those examples you want to see, not the whole picture. You see a few people that are defending Blizzard, and suddenly every Blizzard fan is the same to you.
    And also, for the rest of your post: Really? You're going to be that nit-picky for examples 1 and two? Because of small details like that, you think they don't give a damn about the game? Way to exaggerate there.
    And regarding the forums part, you're wrong again. I don't know if you're just bad at paying attention, but in case you didn't notice, Blizzard themselves said that they don't make decisions based on forum posts alone, because they know damn well the forums are the minority.
    And you think that casual players are the whining entitled leeches on the forums? Oh my, you really don't look in the mirror much do you? If anything, it's people that want the game harder and feel entitled to rewards because they spend more time on a video game that are whining on the forums all the time. Luckily, Blizzard prefers to make their decisions on data collected in game and not just forum posts.
    Last edited by Raego; 2014-01-28 at 12:49 AM. Reason: typo

  11. #391
    The Patient Slowbro's Avatar
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    5-2=3=half life 3
    Jokes aside i think 7 big and immersive dungeons could wirk out better than 100 shor
    t'n boring dungeons.
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  12. #392
    Stood in the Fire KBWarriors's Avatar
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    Luckily, Blizzard doesn't prefers to make their decisions on data collected in game and not just forum posts.
    Really? Do you honestly believe that...?

    More power to you if you do.

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by KBWarriors View Post
    Really? Do you honestly believe that...?

    More power to you if you do.
    Woops, that's a massive typo. What I meant to say is that Blizzard prefers to make decision on in game data and not forum posts, didn't mean to negate that.

  14. #394
    Old God apepi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naztrak View Post
    Someone will probably say quality > quantity, but a lot of the mop dungeons were just a piece of shit
    Mop has dungeons?
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  15. #395
    Pit Lord Asmodias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    So we get another expansion with 10 levels to level up like TBC and Wrath, YET, they come out and say there will only be 5 new dungeons and 2 rehashed dungeons. So a total of 7 "new" dungeons? While comparing that to TBC with 15 new dungeons. That means 15 dungeons with unique bosses, loot for each boss, and varied environments.

    Is blizzard getting too comfortable with giving their player base less content just because we have grown accustomed to the lack of content in the past 2 expansions?

    I would think the casual playerbase would also be upset because that just means there is a lack of things to do for them aside from LFR (which even they dont feel is real content).

    WoD looks beautiful. I think they really shot for the stars on this expansion, I just wish they would have been more creative and focused on more 5 man content at release. I think we will get more 5 man dungeons over the course of the expansion, but it feels lame compared to 15 brand new dungeons from the get go of TBC.

    Thoughts?
    What math do you want us to do Jaylock? Pretty sure everyone already knew we were getting less in terms of dungeons. Be that at launch or be that overall. But seriously, what math did you want us to do?


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  16. #396
    Dreadlord Teebone's Avatar
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    Oh for fuck's sake! This game is almost a decade old.

    Be happy with what you get. Quite pretending it's 2006 still.

  17. #397
    I really feel Blizzard is worrying a lot less about "instanced content" on this new expansion. And that's a good thing!
    In BC they were soooo comfortable about their position in the market and every other aspect of game/social design that all they did was focus 100% on the PVE and dungeaons/ raids....but right now after the "TEST" that was Pandaria they started seeing things diferently...

    Pandaria was all about instanced content. LFR for everyone to see everything and get good rewards...but haven't you noticed the non stop actions on Blizzards part to improve more social activity in THE WORLD!!!That's been my dream all since Cataclysm xD The world was so empty back then....and I mean really empty, zero people on the world doing quests.
    Check it:

    -CRZ
    -Timeless Isles
    -isle of Thunder
    -Garrisons
    -The new open world pvp zone (aka new old school alterac valley)
    -Dynamic and secret stuff while questing on WoD.

    Dudes, if this expansion is all about the open world...I don't give a DAMM about the number of dungeons or raids. I really hope Blizzard has something up their sleeve...they have been acting really strange lately.
    I smell secret fun stuff coming up.
    I hope
    Last edited by Shadowpunkz; 2014-01-28 at 08:44 PM.

  18. #398
    Scarab Lord ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teebone View Post
    Oh for fuck's sake! This game is almost a decade old.

    Be happy with what you get. Quite pretending it's 2006 still.
    So Blizz is going to be reducing the sub-fee on a pro-rata basis for every year that passes since release? Sounds fair.
    Since 9/11 the NSA has spent at least $70,000,000,000 while lying about their own effectiveness. Even if we sweep aside the extensive lawbreaking, ethical problems, economic damage, and abuse of power, the fact remains that the NSA makes us all less secure, running useless mass surveillance, with a handful of successes in other questionably legal programs.

  19. #399
    Dreadlord Teebone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    So Blizz is going to be reducing the sub-fee on a pro-rata basis for every year that passes since release? Sounds fair.
    No, they need to work on a new IP even if its a wow sequel. Dumping everything into a mere expansion is logistical suicide. Just because YOU don't like the numbers of dungeons that, admit it, you'd get bored of, doesn't mean there isn't something out there to be offered. There's not even a beta yet and you whine.

    And seriously, fuck you for making me defend WoD. I was bored of its theme 5 seconds after watching the trailer.

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    So Blizz is going to be reducing the sub-fee on a pro-rata basis for every year that passes since release? Sounds fair.
    Technically they have been in the sense that inflation has caused the factual value of 15$ to go down, and the prices have not gone up.

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