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  1. #41
    Warchief gutnbrg's Avatar
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    yet another season that my shadow priest will be worthless...maybe i'll be able to compete in single target pve encounters tho......nope.

  2. #42
    Legendary! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutnbrg View Post
    yet another season that my shadow priest will be worthless...maybe i'll be able to compete in single target pve encounters tho......nope.
    Shadow Priests aren't actually that weak. God Comp works. The real issue is that it doesn't work as well as RMD/WMD, so the MD arent playing it as much, making it harder for Shadow Priests to find teams.

    But it shouldn't. The healing offspecs should not work as well as Single Role classes, because when they do they push those classes out of PvP, where as if the healing offspecs do not work, their class still exists in PvP.

    That rogue deserves to play with that Mage and Druid more then you do. You chose a healing class, the rogue didn't.
    "Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams
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  3. #43
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    At least this will most likely guarantee PvE gear being useless in wPvP..?

  4. #44
    Warchief gutnbrg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    Shadow Priests aren't actually that weak. God Comp works. The real issue is that it doesn't work as well as RMD/WMD, so the MD arent playing it as much, making it harder for Shadow Priests to find teams.

    But it shouldn't. The healing offspecs should not work as well as Single Role classes, because when they do they push those classes out of PvP, where as if the healing offspecs do not work, their class still exists in PvP.

    That rogue deserves to play with that Mage and Druid more then you do. You chose a healing class, the rogue didn't.
    pretty sure a rogue can self heal just as well as my spriest can and cc 10 times as much and apply tons more pressure to opponents.

  5. #45
    Herald of the Titans Blitzo's Avatar
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    I feel bad for feral druids without HoTW.
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    Gluttony [Mage]

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by luckydevours View Post
    Sorry but that is totally wrong. A 25% damage reduction for one person does always mean everyone else is taking 33.3% more damage than him, regardless if resilience ist at 77% or 0%. Those factors are multiplicative and have always the same relative effect on absolute numbers. So please learn 2 math before you are starting baseless myths that will remain in peoples heads forever ...


    Again, thats total BS. Everyone else taking a 100% damage vs 75% as a warrior is also a 33.3% increase the same way with 77% base resilience when everyone else takes 23% damage compared to 17.25% a warrior in defensive stance takes. Thats a simple rule of proportion.
    Current Resilience is at 72%.

    A warrior in battle stance that takes a 100 damage hit, takes 28 damage.
    A warrior in defensive stance that takes a 100 damage hit, takes 28 * .75 = 21 damage.

    Resilience gets upped to 77%.

    A warrior in battle stance that takes a 100 damage hit, takes 23 damage.
    A warrior in defensive stance that takes a 100 damage hit, takes 23 * .75 = 17.25 damage. (not sure if game rounds down or up)

    So the changes for regular people go from 28 damage taken to 23 damage taken. A change of 17.8%. The people with percentage reductions see a change from 21 to 17 a change of 19%. So you can easily see that the warrior is in fact taking less damage as a result of have a damage reduction percentage on top of another damage reduction percentage.

    I think the trap you fall into when trying to bash people's math skills is that you would expect percentage changes to behave as they would in a math problem, but this is a real world application that has a different order to how the math is applied. The math is still sound, you just also have to take into account the application of it.

  7. #47
    So as a ret, my ability to survive was taken away a couple of patches ago, now my ability to contribute with my heals is taken also, great, looks like people will be rolling holy again.

  8. #48
    Legendary! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutnbrg View Post
    pretty sure a rogue can self heal just as well as my spriest can and cc 10 times as much and apply tons more pressure to opponents.
    Rogue LF3s, Will heal with Recup? OH WAIT WHATS THAT YOU WONT TAKE A ROGUE AS A HEALER.
    "Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams
    When you see someone in a thread making the same canned responses over and over, click their name, click view forum posts, and see if they are a troll. Then don't feed them.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrean View Post
    Current Resilience is at 72%.

    A warrior in battle stance that takes a 100 damage hit, takes 28 damage.
    A warrior in defensive stance that takes a 100 damage hit, takes 28 * .75 = 21 damage.

    Resilience gets upped to 77%.

    A warrior in battle stance that takes a 100 damage hit, takes 23 damage.
    A warrior in defensive stance that takes a 100 damage hit, takes 23 * .75 = 17.25 damage. (not sure if game rounds down or up)

    So the changes for regular people go from 28 damage taken to 23 damage taken. A change of 17.8%. The people with percentage reductions see a change from 21 to 17 a change of 19%. So you can easily see that the warrior is in fact taking less damage as a result of have a damage reduction percentage on top of another damage reduction percentage.
    Nice try. Next time better learn how to use a calculator!
    All i need to show you how it works is this simple rule of proportion:
    23 / 28 = (23 * .75) / (28 * .75) = 17.25 / 21 = .821429
    The ratio always stays the same regardless of damage reduction or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrean View Post
    I think the trap you fall into when trying to bash people's math skills is that you would expect percentage changes to behave as they would in a math problem, but this is a real world application that has a different order to how the math is applied. The math is still sound, you just also have to take into account the application of it.
    What are you even talking about? There ist only one math, and it is either correct or not!
    Last edited by luckydevours; 2014-01-28 at 06:07 PM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by luckydevours View Post
    Nice try. Next time better learn how to use a calculator!
    All i need to show you how it works is this simple rule of proportion:
    23 / 28 = (23 * .75) / (28 * .75) = 17.25 / 21 = .821429
    The ratio always stays the same regardless of damage reduction or not.


    What are you even talking about? There ist only one math, and it is either correct or not!
    So is the conclusion here, that warriors, because of the multiplier, take 17.8% less damage than last season?

    While me, non mitigation class will say, take also 17.8 percent less damage?

    His math was obscured by using 4, instead of 3.25, which produced a change of 19% rather than 17.8% (don't go work for NASA )

    EDIT: Has anyone done this math on heals? I'm getting 23.333% (repeating of course) less heals
    Last edited by morislayer; 2014-01-28 at 07:06 PM.

  11. #51
    I rounded. The point I was making is that the math is the same, but the application is different. You are not concerned with the ratio of 23/28 or 17.25/21, you are interested in the difference in damage taken. Yeah, sure the ratios are all the same, but as you add more and more percentage mitigation you increase the relative damage reduction. That is why adding 5% damage reduction actually has a near 20% "real" damage reduction. The point being made is that when you already have a percentage damage reduction in place and some classes have the ability to further reduce the damage reduction it actually reduces far more damage than those that don't work in that manner. Every class has defenses. Some are built on avoiding damage, some are built on soaking damage and some are built on healing damage. They all "scale" (I use that word loosely) differently with baseline resilience and battle fatigue.

    EDIT: Take out snarky useless personal jab
    Last edited by Tyrean; 2014-01-28 at 11:11 PM.

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