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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    You know what happened when i started playing in TBC in 2.1 and rolled ret as my first char? Lol ret , Lol ret , Lol ret , Lol ret You know what i was saying in a few months? Lol hows kara? Then I cleared BT/SW while they followed behind me sniffing my gloriously rosey turds.
    Can i put this in my sig= LOL
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  2. #22
    I am more worried that we will end up with our 3rd exp being the worst spec in the game, like we saw in 4.0 and 5.0, i went full prot and didn`t even think about 2`s

  3. #23
    I am Murloc! Huntingbear_grimbatol's Avatar
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    Worst dps does not mean worst spec. Sure maybe for the top 5 world guilds you'll not see any rets... but we bring tools that only paladins have and unless you want 2 holy paladins in WoD (which I doubt) then there's gonna be open rooms for 1 and 2 rets if you're outside the top 5 world race.
    DPS is NOT everything...
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  4. #24
    Herald of the Titans Adramalech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dunefire View Post
    Sadly rets been...well it fits, Fucked since they fubar'd the patch and made us OP for a few days...its been mediocre or poor since..always at the end of melee DPS...I'm getting the rage from randoms in LFR of "GTFO RET", or the "LOL ret" shit again. If you miss a single step in the rotation or arent lucky in the proc dept. might as well just die and take the load off the healers in a mass damage fight.
    I'm not sure if I can even remotely agree with you. I'm definitely not the best ret around, AT MOST I'm a bit above average, and I never once heard complaints about my dps, especially not for being "LOL RET". In fact, I haven't heard anyone criticizing low dps based on the spec they're playing for ages. As far as I'm aware, I'm doing anything between 200k and 240k, depending on the fight, my attention, and other variables, while wearing LFR gear + legendary cloak. I'm not a top player when compared to someone wearing normal/heroic gear, and I'm definitely not comparable to them in skill, but I'm definitely not performing poorly for my gear. It usually takes people wearing a mix of Flex/Normal/Heroic/Warforged gear to out-dps me. Just because a spec isn't at the top of the chain doesn't mean it's bad. Someone has to be below #1. Plus, there's more to a spec than "how much dps can it put out?".

    I don't want to talk out of my ass because I don't keep up with spec performance at top level the same way you guys do, but as far as I'm aware, ret has been doing pretty decently if not downright amazing in some tiers. Anaxie mentioned T10 with Shadowmourne and Tiny Abom. I never got either of those items, but I could see other people who had them, and they definitely didn't underperform. Cataclysm was weird, we had a terrible mastery at the start, and (personal feelings here), ret dps felt really awkward until I got a hold of the T13 bonus that caused Judgement to generate Holy Power.

    I've been pretty happy with ret this expansion. Once again, maybe my opinion won't mean much, if anything at all, to you considering I'm "just a LFR noob", but I do have eyes, and while I may not analyze things as deeply as you guys do, I'm not blind to how a spec performs either unless I deliberately don't pay attention.
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  5. #25
    So 2 weeks of being really OP followed by an entire expansion of being considered one of the worst pvp classes of the game?
    I'm glad to have multiple personalities, if i didn't i would be talking to myself, and that's just insane.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerus View Post
    For example: A rocket launcher against a kitten=obliterated kitten. A rocket launcher against a tank=singed armor plating. Same attack or spell (in relation to WoW) has two different effects against against a level 80 player (kitten) and a level 85 one (tank) because of scaling.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    Worst dps does not mean worst spec. Sure maybe for the top 5 world guilds you'll not see any rets... but we bring tools that only paladins have and unless you want 2 holy paladins in WoD (which I doubt) then there's gonna be open rooms for 1 and 2 rets if you're outside the top 5 world race.
    DPS is NOT everything...
    True, but PVP was a nightmare for me at that time.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Les Grossman View Post
    Care to elaborate?

    Also, it's ridiculous* hence why you see a squiggly red underline as you type rediculous telling you something's incorrect :P
    Watch out guys, the spelling police are out early today.

    Also, not everyone has spellcheck on their web browser (I know I don't) so don't think everyone has helpful little red squiggly lines helping them spell everything like yourself.

    On-topic; Not really worried about ret or any of the other classes really, imo most classes feel more balanced at this point in the game than ever, so I have hope that Bliz won't fudge it up in 6.0.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    DPS is NOT everything...
    This is true to an Extent. But lets say a Ret paladin does 350k DPS on Average. Just as a number, sure they bring utility and etc etc. Now lets say a Rogue brings 500k damage on average to a fight. That's 150k more, that's less need for Utility, for cooldowns, for healer stress, for tank stress, less boss mechanics to deal with. See where i am going with this.

    PvE utility is very minimally needed, as shown by the top 5 speed clears, they over load with damage and completely ignore mechanics and just push the boss through phases. Sure in PvP mechanics mean a lot more and a good HoF/HoP and HoS offers a lot more utility. Well as long as you aren't retribution, cause again it boils down to the whole doing minimal damage thing. Their damage is tied to their burst, so when they can't burst they aren't a threat. Sure i can out utility people, but if i can't kill someone. 1 Utility/Damage hybrid + 1 ranged damage + 1 healer will always lose to 2 damage + 1 healer. Just cause our healer can't keep up as well over a really long fight.
    I'm glad to have multiple personalities, if i didn't i would be talking to myself, and that's just insane.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerus View Post
    For example: A rocket launcher against a kitten=obliterated kitten. A rocket launcher against a tank=singed armor plating. Same attack or spell (in relation to WoW) has two different effects against against a level 80 player (kitten) and a level 85 one (tank) because of scaling.

  9. #29
    gc left wow , there is hope for paladins rofl

  10. #30
    Holy Templar's Verdict is amazing. However, it really just makes Templar's Verdict hit like it should be already.

  11. #31
    Epic! Swampmoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post

    Also I'm not worried about "3.0" either. Ret was extremely strong the entirety of wrath and one of if not the strongest class on the HLK encounter.
    It is nice to finally see someone else who understands how good we were in wrath, rather than the masses who cry we were bad then too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zabannith View Post
    I dunno maybe if i could get a HWF weap (ive coined like 6 heroic non wf maces and like 4 swords)and a heroic thok trinket it would make a difference.. but weve had so many ppl leave or quit since thanksgiving that we have really really stalled in getting bosses killed.. it seems evey raid night we havea new dps or healer we r trying out ,,, they seem ok so we recruit them.. they stay for 2 or 3 weeks of us funneling gear to them because they are under geared then they quit ..
    I don't know what your guild ranking is like but from past experience, this is a never ending cycle unless you are in a very, and I mean very high end guild, and even they probably suffer from it somewhat but to a lesser extent. At the end of every tier and especially at the end of an xpac, it's even worse.

    All I wanted to do in Wrath was to finish every boss throughout the expansion on it's hardest difficulty. Did everything except LK 25 heroic because of the same problems you are having. When the guild eventually stopped raiding after dealing with this and hitting the end of an xpac where it got too tough to find recruits, I left (after about 2-3 years in the same guild) and joined the top guild on the server to try and finish it. It just wasn't the same so I cancelled my subscription after only a week or two. They killed him about a week later. I haven't played until about 2 months ago.

    It sucks that there are so many flakey people who don't care about anything but their gear and themselves. They don't care that they destroy guilds or give them a never ending headache, but that all comes with the territory in a game like this.
    Last edited by Swampmoose; 2014-01-29 at 07:13 PM.
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  12. #32
    For Blizzard, Ret is just a leveling specc, the intended endgame speccs for paladins in their eyes are mostly a healbot, or a tank. Though they don't like us being good tanks either, or, god forbid, having fun while tanking, as seen from the numerous nerfs to Prot throughout MoP. They even plainly wrote it in blue posts numerous times, though it was related to pvp ("we are ok with Ret being shit cuz Holy is stronk")

    What will really fuck us up will be the removal of Reforge options, and the warrior-centric itemization we see all the time (T14 with no haste weaps, yet two crit weapons anyone?) Ret without a good amount of haste is zero fun, and now we will have to rely purely on RNG to get some haste gear.

    Fellow Rets you need to stop lying to yourselves, trying to make the ugly truth seem more pleasant (aka Aesop's Fox and Grapes fable). "we bring utility" - hello, warlock and warrior both bring more raid utility and shit on you in dps.
    Every good deed shall be rightfully punished. *** If you want to have something done right, you have to do it yourself.

  13. #33
    Another 3.0 won't happen because we won't get Final Verdict at level 90 and run around pwning people with it for two months before WoD comes out like we did with DIVIEN STROM!!11!one. Don't worry though, we'll suffer brutally in the numbers pass and have to be buffed going into the second and third tiers of Warlords, again, for the fourth expansion in a row.
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  14. #34
    Legendary! anaxie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horymir View Post
    For Blizzard, Ret is just a leveling specc, the intended endgame speccs for paladins in their eyes are mostly a healbot, or a tank. Though they don't like us being good tanks either, or, god forbid, having fun while tanking, as seen from the numerous nerfs to Prot throughout MoP. They even plainly wrote it in blue posts numerous times, though it was related to pvp ("we are ok with Ret being shit cuz Holy is stronk")

    What will really fuck us up will be the removal of Reforge options, and the warrior-centric itemization we see all the time (T14 with no haste weaps, yet two crit weapons anyone?) Ret without a good amount of haste is zero fun, and now we will have to rely purely on RNG to get some haste gear.

    Fellow Rets you need to stop lying to yourselves, trying to make the ugly truth seem more pleasant (aka Aesop's Fox and Grapes fable). "we bring utility" - hello, warlock and warrior both bring more raid utility and shit on you in dps.
    I didn't play in Vanilla but since TBC ret has been anything but a leveling spec a perfectly fine if you are competent enough to actually play the game. Of course I'm not a mind reader so I can only imagine what you have done. From your tone it probably starts with an L and ends with R

    Reforge removal however is a step backwards for blizzard. Fucking idiots
    Last edited by anaxie; 2014-01-30 at 06:54 PM.

  15. #35
    I like where ret is at. But I'm not anywhere close to heroic raiding ilvls.

    I'm always top 2-5 in every LFR I've been in, sitting at 528 ilvl.

    I'm more interesting in Seal Twisting for the 20 sec +10% attack speed and +10% AP buffs, of course if that talent stays mostly unchanged.

    I very clearly see a Prot talent, Holy talent, and two possible/viable ret talents (with one that looks more PvP focused and one more on sustained DPS)
    Last edited by heerobya; 2014-01-30 at 07:47 PM.

  16. #36
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    I'm not really worried. What concerns me is the level 100 Talents. I hope they change. Some of them seemed boring.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple https://twitter.com/Aeluron1989

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by heerobya View Post
    I'm more interesting in Seal Twisting for the 20 sec +10% attack speed and +10% AP buffs, of course if that talent stays mostly unchanged.
    Unless seals are off the GCD it'll be to much lost damage compared to the Holy Weapon damage one + inquisition. Assuming this remains unchanged. I get the feeling it'll change, all 3 of them. They are fairly generic and don't really match the feel of a Paladin talent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I'm not really worried. What concerns me is the level 100 Talents. I hope they change. Some of them seemed boring.
    I have this sneaking suspicion Paladin's are getting a minor class rework in WoD. It's easily the most out dated class in the game, and with the loss of reforging it'll just suffer more.
    Last edited by Borigrad; 2014-01-30 at 07:52 PM.
    I'm glad to have multiple personalities, if i didn't i would be talking to myself, and that's just insane.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerus View Post
    For example: A rocket launcher against a kitten=obliterated kitten. A rocket launcher against a tank=singed armor plating. Same attack or spell (in relation to WoW) has two different effects against against a level 80 player (kitten) and a level 85 one (tank) because of scaling.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Borigrad View Post
    Unless seals are off the GCD it'll be to much lost damage compared to the Holy Weapon damage one + inquisition. Assuming this remains unchanged. I get the feeling it'll change, all 3 of them. They are fairly generic and don't really match the feel of a Paladin talent.
    That is true. I like Divine Conviction and The Light Within for Prot too, as well as for Ret. Seal of Faith is the most "meh" to me. Seems like a gimmick to hype people for the chance of Shockadin, but will be 99% useless in 'real world' scenarios.

  19. #39
    Pointless to speculate how things are going to turn out. If you think level 100 talents are the only new changes, then you're in for a surprise. Also, going by history, Ret has started off in most expansions badly then good. Only WOTLK was Ret really over the top at the start.

    I expect Ret to be bad at the start of WOD, and that's why I'll be avoiding to purchase the game until I hear otherwise. Good rule of thumb is to pay attention to the complaints of the forums. If people want Ret nerfed, then you know it's ok to play. Throughout MOP I didn't hear anyone complain about Ret, so you know that's not good.

  20. #40
    Epic! Swampmoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heerobya View Post
    I like where ret is at. But I'm not anywhere close to heroic raiding ilvls.

    I'm always top 2-5 in every LFR I've been in, sitting at 528 ilvl.

    I'm more interesting in Seal Twisting for the 20 sec +10% attack speed and +10% AP buffs, of course if that talent stays mostly unchanged.

    I very clearly see a Prot talent, Holy talent, and two possible/viable ret talents (with one that looks more PvP focused and one more on sustained DPS)
    Your ranking on DPS in LFR unfortunately doesn't have anything to do with the state of the spec. That's just a combo of people being in 510 pvp gear without gems and people not knowing what's going on. You aren't really "liking where ret is at," you're liking that there are undergeared mouth-breathers filling up LFR.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    Pointless to speculate how things are going to turn out. If you think level 100 talents are the only new changes, then you're in for a surprise. Also, going by history, Ret has started off in most expansions badly then good. Only WOTLK was Ret really over the top at the start.

    I expect Ret to be bad at the start of WOD, and that's why I'll be avoiding to purchase the game until I hear otherwise. Good rule of thumb is to pay attention to the complaints of the forums. If people want Ret nerfed, then you know it's ok to play. Throughout MOP I didn't hear anyone complain about Ret, so you know that's not good.
    If you pay attention to complaints on forums about classes, you would think that every single class was either OP or completely bad to the point of being unplayable. There is no middle of the road in the eyes of a WoW player.
    Last edited by Swampmoose; 2014-01-30 at 08:37 PM.
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