Who else is worried about another 3.0 when 6.0 drops for ret?

[Zabannith]

Personally I'm a little worried about final verdict sure it sounds amazing currently, and I have no doubt it will be our best dps talent.

But what worries me is a repeat of 3.0 when we did all that holy damage, just think of it , somebody in pvp gets 1 shot up by a ret with cds running and a 100% holy TV -goes to forums to cry that we need a nerf because we can 100% bypass armour with our finisher plus inquisition and plus mastery damage.

Blizz listens and nerfs us into the ground again and nerfs our other damage , or our cds , or they redesign the talent.

Has anybody else thought of this scenario?

[Romanesca]

Meh, all of the talents are lack luster anyway. Wouldn't mind a reworking. Plus, it'll be fun to troll everyone for the time being that it'll be OP. And I mean, destro Warlocks can 1 shot people as it is now...so yeah.

[anaxie]

I wouldn't be worried considering the state of some classes currently on live.

Mainly Ferals

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Also I'm not worried about "3.0" either. Ret was extremely strong the entirety of wrath and one of if not the strongest class on the HLK encounter.

what you should be worried about is the fucked up scaling with them introducing 3 brand new ratings and trying to balance them so a repeat of 4.0 doesnt happen. AKA ret to go live as the only class that wasn't tuned considering we were the only class without a mastery on launch.

[Funky Kong]

I wouldn't be worried considering other classes are far more rediculous

Care to elaborate?

Also, it's ridiculous* hence why you see a squiggly red underline as you type rediculous telling you something's incorrect :P

[anaxie]

Care to elaborate?

Also, it's ridiculous* hence why you see a squiggly red underline as you type rediculous telling you something's incorrect :P

Feral single target DPS

/end thread

[Bullettime]

Pure Holy damage was a problem in 3.0 when resistances were still a factor in the game, esp in PvP, and Holy would bypass all resists. Holy damage itself is no different than any other school of magic now with resists being removed.

Also entirely likely that classes have some of their cooldowns trimmed with the button bloat problem. No real reason that a class needs 3, or more in some cases, burst centric cooldowns.

This is definitely a case of having to wait and see what happens on the beta testing. There's a lot that could happen due to the new stats and them addressing button bloat.

[oland138]

Beta isn't even live yet. There is no way the talents will make it through beta in the current state. They may not even make it through alpha. And there's no way they'll let a healing talent go live in the same tier as a pure damage talent.

[anaxie]

Pure Holy damage was a problem in 3.0 when resistances were still a factor in the game, esp in PvP, and Holy would bypass all resists. Holy damage itself is no different than any other school of magic now with resists being removed.

Also entirely likely that classes have some of their cooldowns trimmed with the button bloat problem. No real reason that a class needs 3, or more in some cases, burst centric cooldowns.

This is definitely a case of having to wait and see what happens on the beta testing. There's a lot that could happen due to the new stats and them addressing button bloat.

They are addressing it by adding nothing new and revamping core abilities that you upgrade naturally with each levelup. Hardly any more trimming that needs to happen at this point. especially with paladins if anything we need a abilities like consecration back to have a targeted AoE.

[Velerios]

Compared to the 5.0-Colossus-Smash it doesn't seem to be as overpowered as it was. It is only one spell that get increased: yes the burst will be higher, but we don't even know yet how much of the health pool will it cost. With final Verdict the spell bypass armor: not bad, but hardly overpowered.

Even more when we don't even know what the levelup-bonuses are. (yes every class get for every level after 90 some nice power-ups)

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Any class that overperforms at expo launches is going to be adressed, in ret history these nerds have been way too harsh. Yah sure ret was good in ICC with Shadowmourne and TAJ (which were broken for us if you remember) not to forget that exorcism critted 100% against demons and undead.

Am I worries? Nah, not yet. I'm more worries about firemages with multistrike and crit stocking being so grossly OP that your raid want 4+ of them

[Regen]

Yeah. Im not so worried about rets having a terrible time so much as im worried about other classes like fire mage doing crazy things.

[Mormolyce]

Personally I'm a little worried about final verdict sure it sounds amazing currently, and I have no doubt it will be our best dps talent.

But what worries me is a repeat of 3.0 when we did all that holy damage, just think of it , somebody in pvp gets 1 shot up by a ret with cds running and a 100% holy TV -goes to forums to cry that we need a nerf because we can 100% bypass armour with our finisher plus inquisition and plus mastery damage.

Blizz listens and nerfs us into the ground again and nerfs our other damage , or our cds , or they redesign the talent.

Has anybody else thought of this scenario?

1) These are just placeholder talents, they won't necessarily go live. Look at the pre-MoP beta talents, they were radically different to what went live for some classes.

2) If one talent is obviously the best for dps it will be nerfed or the others buffed, that's the whole point of the talent trees.

3) If your ability is OP in PVP it will be nerfed. Duh?

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Care to elaborate?

Also, it's ridiculous* hence why you see a squiggly red underline as you type rediculous telling you something's incorrect :P

Damn that pesky schwa!

[Terridon]

Feral single target DPS

/end thread

Don't see the problem. You've been the one advocating against ever taking a feral for most of the expansion, due to "rogues doing everything better". Is the problem that they suddenly are useful to you?

[Dunefire]

Sadly rets been...well it fits, Fucked since they fubar'd the patch and made us OP for a few days...its been mediocre or poor since..always at the end of melee DPS...I'm getting the rage from randoms in LFR of "GTFO RET", or the "LOL ret" shit again. If you miss a single step in the rotation or arent lucky in the proc dept. might as well just die and take the load off the healers in a mass damage fight.

[Hooliganz]

ret scaling with lag when i play on EU server's when i live nowhere near it noting its the lowest ping for me

[anaxie]

Don't see the problem. You've been the one advocating against ever taking a feral for most of the expansion, due to "rogues doing everything better". Is the problem that they suddenly are useful to you?

what Feral tanks are meh compared to a warrior or anything but if you need a 3rd tank go ahead. Feral dps is the most broken class in the game atm. Granted I have Shadjr in my raid. Experiences may vary on skill. 450k sustained ST consistently makes me lol

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Sadly rets been...well it fits, Fucked since they fubar'd the patch and made us OP for a few days...its been mediocre or poor since..always at the end of melee DPS...I'm getting the rage from randoms in LFR of "GTFO RET", or the "LOL ret" shit again. If you miss a single step in the rotation or arent lucky in the proc dept. might as well just die and take the load off the healers in a mass damage fight.

I'm sorry and no offense but if you arent beating randoms its a skill issue the only place you should struggle is when you are around people who are doing Cap out dps and 95% of players outside of Heroic based raiding aren't even capable of obtaining past 50% of their gears output.

Let them LOL ret me while most of the time I que for shits and giggles I do 1/3 of the raids DPS.

You know what happened when i started playing in TBC in 2.1 and rolled ret as my first char? Lol ret , Lol ret , Lol ret , Lol ret You know what i was saying in a few months? Lol hows kara? Then I cleared BT/SW while they followed behind me sniffing my gloriously rosey turds.

[Zabannith]

Personally I am finding that we don't scale nearly as well as other dps its sorta infuriating, i remember when SoO first dropped and up until we started doing heroics i was more than competing with the other dps, now even tho we all have the same approx. ilvl they seem to be pulling ahead more and more , the better the gear we all get the further behind it seems i am , I still do good dps , and the utility i bring makes up for the lack of dps , it just is frustrating.

I dunno maybe if i could get a HWF weap (ive coined like 6 heroic non wf maces and like 4 swords)and a heroic thok trinket it would make a difference.. but weve had so many ppl leave or quit since thanksgiving that we have really really stalled in getting bosses killed.. it seems evey raid night we havea new dps or healer we r trying out ,,, they seem ok so we recruit them.. they stay for 2 or 3 weeks of us funneling gear to them because they are under geared then they quit ..

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Well like I said when MoP was in beta... SoL needs to be buffed by 5-10% every major content patch.
It's been the case so far with the exception of SoO and to be perfectly honest I think a 5% SoL buff is perfect, 10% might be a bit much but 5% is perfectly reasonable.
And to put it in another perspective, single target we're lowest of all melee, second lowers class (poor shadowpriests). I kinda blame these ratings getting out of hand, haste has been the major dps increase for us this expansion and now that we've hit the theoretical cap (or some actually goes for the hard cap as I'm doing next reset) our dps increase just falls off so quickly. Put simply, mastery and crit doesn't scale strong enough.

[felcommander]

If you think any of the 6.0 talents are going to make it though to live (hell probably even beta) without significant changes your sadly mistaken.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

I dunno maybe if i could get a HWF weap (ive coined like 6 heroic non wf maces and like 4 swords)and a heroic thok trinket it would make a difference.. but weve had so many ppl leave or quit since thanksgiving that we have really really stalled in getting bosses killed.. it seems evey raid night we havea new dps or healer we r trying out ,,, they seem ok so we recruit them.. they stay for 2 or 3 weeks of us funneling gear to them because they are under geared then they quit ..

That's a shame, try looking at peoples raiding/guild history before you consider them as recruits and also try to come in contact with their old guild if you're not 100% on recruits.

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If you think any of the 6.0 talents are going to make it though to live (hell probably even beta) without significant changes your sadly mistaken.

The Holy TV will stay in some form, talked with a few blizzard people at blizzcon and they've gone through talks in the office that they really liked that RNG aspect of ret in T16 and it filled that "Holy damage bomb" they looked for. I wouldn't be surprised if it got a 4-5 holy power cost though, which makes it meh.