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  1. #21
    Math is off on mastery % for bm

    simple test

    give yourself just the mastery buff (3k mastery) as survival, your mastery will go up 5%
    give yourself just the mastery buff for bm,your mastery will go up 10%

    580 TED as survival gives you 4.2% more mastery
    580 TED as BM gives you 8.4% more mastery

    So your figure of 8835 dps would actually be 17,670 dps as bm.

    Simming these trinkets through SimC all tier, and at the same ilvl, TED has always been 8-10k higher than HT.

  2. #22
    Stood in the Fire Littlepinch's Avatar
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    I Have both Trinkets Atm, As Bm my Single target and Aoe Dps went up as a result of the TED.

    With HT it acounted for about on avg 4-5% of my Dps.

    Once i got my TED i put it on and never looked back ( I never play Survival or MM )

  3. #23
    Side question. I the heroic version of HT (574) and the normal version of TED (561). As BM, the heroic HT is simming higher by ~1.5k dps on FD. Are the numbers right? What about aoe fights? I assume the mastery from TED outweigh the single target proc from HT.

  4. #24
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    574 HT will probably beat 561 TED just based on the agi proc. I can envision a sim where that turns out true.

  5. #25
    The Patient Laraven's Avatar
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    on vent with raid leader this afternoon. "See Lara? They are all on MY side, not yours because the trinkets are about equal." ... FML

  6. #26
    TED is the better trinket as people are saying but it's surprisingly really not by all that much for single target stuff, mostly because Haromm's is so strong that it's decent even with the pet handicap and TED is so weak that it's only just decent in the first place. Particularly if you're comparing heroic Haromm's to normal TED. Not having a TED for AOE is a bigger loss, but still not a crushing one.

    Also keep in mind that each trinket has different builds that will favor it. If you are using Haromm's Talisman, it may be better to prioritize things that increase its damage/minimize its downside. Like using a lower mastery build, AMOC over blink strikes, and TOTH or fervor over dire beast. It won't be a BIG difference and it may not even be enough to make one talent better than the other, never mind one trinket over the other, but it's at least something you should take into account while running sims comparing the trinkets.

    The fair assessment is that TED is definitely BIS for a BM hunter, but is not a staggering upgrade over haromm's talisman (especially if the talisman is higher ilvl). Beyond that, how to prioritize loot distribution for your guild ("BIS" vs "biggest upgrade at the time", or how to determine who makes the best use of an item or who deserves it, etc...) is really something that is outside the scope of what can be discussed reasonably on these forums.
    Last edited by Thursley; 2014-01-27 at 10:03 PM.

  7. #27
    Your raid leader is wrong, and the reasons TED is better than HT has already been put in this forum.

    I am sorry, I would just suggest you find a new guild if the issue is so large it forces you to come to the forums. Even at that he won't back down. I would go as far to say he is a monk, rogue, or druid that wants the trinket for himself, or he is trying to gear out other people before you. If his reasons were say "the trinket would benefit the raids dps as a whole if someone else were to get it" or something around that I would except it, but not his faulty reasoning. He is trying to hard to not be wrong, and it isn't working.

  8. #28
    Mechagnome Dhryke's Avatar
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    OMG someone came to the forums to ask for help their guild must be junk! Leave it now!

    OT: BiS refers to what's best for the spec. How marginally better it is, is irrelevant.
    BM - AoC & TED
    SV - AoC & HT

  9. #29
    Not sure why your raid leader cares so much about loot going to someone who won't leave the guild/suck(citation needed), when you aren't bleeding edge.

    My Stream from 8CST-1CST on Tuesdays (rarely), and other randum stuff.
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  10. #30
    The Patient Laraven's Avatar
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    Thank you all for trying!

    At least now when the other hunters laugh and call me names, and don't allow me to join in any Hunter games, I can show them this. And they will all see that my RL is just MEAN!

    This trinket has been the topic of debate in our guild for awhile. Glad it's over. I win. *smirk*

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Laraven View Post
    The first time it dropped I won and gave it to my raid leader, a Guardian Druid, because he was fresh 90 and has terribad trinkets. Second time, a baddie rogue won it, and has since left guild, 3rd time a random feral druid (non-core) won it. And then last night another trial feral druid won it. I am the only core Hunter in our 25m. (also an Officer.)

    We have issues with loot leaving the guild, or going to members who don't raid. We are a fairly new guild, and still working on loot rules and such.
    I don't mind passing gear to better the raid as a whole. But I think it's my turn now. And I am still being told "It's NOT good for BM, HT is better!"

    I bonus roll this trinket every week and nadda. Sighhh.
    Your RL is a dick. There's no reason to give loot to non-core people over core and esp not to a trial. And WTF with working on loot rules?? That's not a complex topic, there are like 3-4 ways to do loot. Pick one, be fair, make sure everyone knows the rules esp if you do loot council.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Laraven View Post
    Thank you all for trying!

    At least now when the other hunters laugh and call me names, and don't allow me to join in any Hunter games, I can show them this. And they will all see that my RL is just MEAN!

    This trinket has been the topic of debate in our guild for awhile. Glad it's over. I win. *smirk*
    There's something seriously wrong with your raid leader. Literally top hunters are in here telling you it is the BIS trinket for BM. And second off BM stat weights are haste > mastery > crit now. And no it's not for "cleave" - they are good for ALL forms of BM. Your raid leader is a moron who is trying to back himself up after making a mistake and is now hurting you in the process.

    But on a similar note, you're just as much at fault if you stick around to put up with that shit.

  13. #33
    I like how your RL just posted all that math but didn't bother to Simcraft or run it on FemaleDwarf. Does he even realize that as BM most of our damage comes from our pets and pets don't benefit from HT multistrike ? Also as Libertarian pointed out, stat weights for BM are Haste=>Mast>Crit.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Laraven View Post
    on vent with raid leader this afternoon. "See Lara? They are all on MY side, not yours because the trinkets are about equal." ... FML
    Your raid leader is clueless, and kind of sounds like an ass. TED is 2nd best for hunters after AoC, this is not an opinion and has been proven.

    Tell him to go play/understand a class before he argues what is and is not best for it.

    And if I may be blunt - 'yo i dont play hunterz but i need this trinket so let me come up w/reasonz u should give it 2 me' is really what this whole thing smells like to me.

  15. #35
    I don't get how he/she says "They are all on MY side" when clearly everyone is on OP's side ><
    I worry there's three of me, and each of us is blind.

  16. #36
    Incidentally, I think I see why this raid keeps losing people... (looks at RL...)

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    Your raid leader is a moron.
    ^This. Say this to Him.

  18. #38
    i m just lucky, i nailed the TED with one bonus roll along with blackfuse bombling. At first it showed the pet on roll. then i discovered TED sitting in my bag. i was never so happier <3

    on topic, anyone saying HT > TED for BM on same ilvl, loses credibility about hunter talk to me. For BM, after reforging i have 1.2k mastery, that means, 4% extra pet damage. and since i go haste > mastery > crit build, its way better for me. i have to equip a normal HT on another of my hunters, and i don't like it very much.

  19. #39
    Don't give Haromm's Talisman a bad rap, because as trinkets go it's INSANELY powerful. The fact that we can use it as a BM hunter while missing out on 40-50% of the multistrike proc and not actually be giving up too much damage over the alternative should give you an idea of how strong a trinket it actually is (and also how weak TED is).

    As survival (with pets accounting for 15% of my overall damage), my normal Haromm's Talism (ilvl 561) is worth roughly the same amount of DPS as my heroic Assurance of Consequence (ilvl 574). It depends on the fight length of course (does AOC allow me to get an extra stampede/rapid fire or not), but on femaledwarf the damage they add is generally within a 1% margin. And that's the normal Talisman; the heroic Talisman is better than heroic AOC.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Your raid leader is clueless, and kind of sounds like an ass. TED is 2nd best for hunters after AoC, this is not an opinion and has been proven.

    Tell him to go play/understand a class before he argues what is and is not best for it.

    And if I may be blunt - 'yo i dont play hunterz but i need this trinket so let me come up w/reasonz u should give it 2 me' is really what this whole thing smells like to me.
    You sound like a bit of an ass btw. Just to let you know.

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