A little help please...

[anjan011]

Don't give Haromm's Talisman a bad rap, because as trinkets go it's INSANELY powerful. The fact that we can use it as a BM hunter while missing out on 40-50% of the multistrike proc and not actually be giving up too much damage over the alternative should give you an idea of how strong a trinket it actually is (and also how weak TED is).

As survival (with pets accounting for 15% of my overall damage), my normal Haromm's Talism (ilvl 561) is worth roughly the same amount of DPS as my heroic Assurance of Consequence (ilvl 574). It depends on the fight length of course (does AOC allow me to get an extra stampede/rapid fire or not), but on femaledwarf the damage they add is generally within a 1% margin. And that's the normal Talisman; the heroic Talisman is better than heroic AOC.

not giving HT a bad name, HT rocks for SV. but for BM its second to TED. as BM, for multistrike it gives me only ~1.9% of my total damage. 561 TED double upgraded gives u about 1.2k+ mastery and 844 haste. that increases my pet damage by 4% and pets and mine attack speed by some amount. that alone makes it much more worthwhile than HT. combine that with AoE sunder from tall strider. u will actually tear through things.

And regarding agility, both r same. both r 1.5k agi in avg. and TED procs more than HT (0.92 vs. 1.00)

[Dracodraco]

Also, dont give TED to a feral. If you REALLY love them, you would go get them a H RoR and AoC. They would love you for it.

And that's why out of the 20 top ranking feral druids, exactly one is using AoC, right? Haromms is BiS for consistency, TED is BiS if they can snapshot their DoT's properly for ferals.

That being said, yes, TED is better for BM than Haromms. It's by a fairly small margin, though - my heroic WF Haromms comes out about 400 dps better than my normal heroic TED.

[ryklin]

OT: also it takes a really good feral to do well w/ TED as they have to change their play so that they can be prepared for a proc at any time, to get bleeds out before agility is lost

most other trinkets are significantly easier to play feral with

but yah, trinkets are good for dmg

[Littlepinch]

When the TED first dropped in my raid, even our rogue ( who is heroic geard ) questioned why i even wanted it. I had to explain to him why it's better for my spec ( only play BM ).

Now he's mad im out dpsing him on every fight. He even goes as far to reset trash on Nazgrim so i don't start the fight at 2mil + dps ( Bastard )

[Redpanda]

TED is bis for bm. He showed his math and reasoning why he made is decision. If someone has a retort with better math and reasoning which I see someone has already thats good but is all the berating nessesary? relax gents

[xMoore]

For you moron hunters who don't read my post, I did that math for real world application on a comparison single target, obviously its better for AOE for BM, but my post was to argue that they're BARELY different on single target. The Original poster is trying to say "I should get this because its BIS, even over people who have 528 version of TED I should get it because I have FLEX HAROMMS" the reason I don't give it to Laraven is because other DPS in the raid have LOOKING FOR RAID (THIS IS ITEM LEVEL 528 OKAY) and she has FLEX, but says Haromm's sucks for her, THE WHOLE REASON I POSTED MATH WAS TO SAY THEY'RE BARELY DIFFERENT. Plain and simple, if we were a 14/14 H guild I would worry about giving people their BIS trinkets, but right now we're progressing, so the loot goes to people who it is a LARGER upgrade for. Also... for the people saying I want the trinket, I have had it for months... so obviously that is not my reasoning what so ever.

[Dracodraco]

For you moron hunters who don't read my post, I did that math for real world application on a comparison single target, obviously its better for AOE for BM, but my post was to argue that they're BARELY different on single target. The Original poster is trying to say "I should get this because its BIS, even over people who have 528 version of TED I should get it because I have FLEX HAROMMS" the reason I don't give it to Laraven is because other DPS in the raid have LOOKING FOR RAID (THIS IS ITEM LEVEL 528 OKAY) and she has FLEX, but says Haromm's sucks for her, THE WHOLE REASON I POSTED MATH WAS TO SAY THEY'RE BARELY DIFFERENT. Plain and simple, if we were a 14/14 H guild I would worry about giving people their BIS trinkets, but right now we're progressing, so the loot goes to people who it is a LARGER upgrade for. Also... for the people saying I want the trinket, I have had it for months... so obviously that is not my reasoning what so ever.

No reason to get your panties in a bunch. We provided an answer, not a suggestion as to how loot should be divided. TED > Haromms, clear as day, no matter the scenario, if given the same Ilvl for BM. You suggesting Haromms is better is false information, and not at all what you just said.

[eschatological]

If it's a matter of distributing loot based on which is a larger upgrade, fine. That's none of our business. But the OP seemed to suggest their raid leader (you) were saying TED wasn't good for BM and that she should stick with HT.

[Libertarian]

This guy is a clown

[Kissthebaby]

real world

of warcraft.... I hope you guys get normal mode garrosh soon.

[anjan011]

As SV, HT grants ~5% of my total damage from multistrike. and for BM, i can't even get past ~2.5% since i do less damage than my pet as BM. Besides i go with haste > mastery build. so yes TeD is too awesome for me. and since as BM, i don't have any snapshot able ability other than serpent sting, i m quite fine with it problem is only one of my hunters got it

[Sul]

For you moron hunters who don't read my post, I did that math for real world application on a comparison single target, obviously its better for AOE for BM, but my post was to argue that they're BARELY different on single target. The Original poster is trying to say "I should get this because its BIS, even over people who have 528 version of TED I should get it because I have FLEX HAROMMS" the reason I don't give it to Laraven is because other DPS in the raid have LOOKING FOR RAID (THIS IS ITEM LEVEL 528 OKAY) and she has FLEX, but says Haromm's sucks for her, THE WHOLE REASON I POSTED MATH WAS TO SAY THEY'RE BARELY DIFFERENT. Plain and simple, if we were a 14/14 H guild I would worry about giving people their BIS trinkets, but right now we're progressing, so the loot goes to people who it is a LARGER upgrade for. Also... for the people saying I want the trinket, I have had it for months... so obviously that is not my reasoning what so ever.

And people have shown your math to be wrong

[Raicky]

For you moron hunters who don't read my post, I did that math for real world application on a comparison single target, obviously its better for AOE for BM, but my post was to argue that they're BARELY different on single target. The Original poster is trying to say "I should get this because its BIS, even over people who have 528 version of TED I should get it because I have FLEX HAROMMS" the reason I don't give it to Laraven is because other DPS in the raid have LOOKING FOR RAID (THIS IS ITEM LEVEL 528 OKAY) and she has FLEX, but says Haromm's sucks for her, THE WHOLE REASON I POSTED MATH WAS TO SAY THEY'RE BARELY DIFFERENT. Plain and simple, if we were a 14/14 H guild I would worry about giving people their BIS trinkets, but right now we're progressing, so the loot goes to people who it is a LARGER upgrade for. Also... for the people saying I want the trinket, I have had it for months... so obviously that is not my reasoning what so ever.

Lots of people here have proven your math is wrong. That being said, loot distribution in your guild is entirely upto you. But the argument you made "that they're BARELY different on single target." is dumb. You could just go to simcraft and Zeherah's and check that yourself. TED is much better than HT in all scenarios for BM. There are two encounters in SoO which are entirely single target. For everything else you need burst aoe. You could just use a little more common sense than "Hurr Durr, I'm right. Everyone else wrong".

[Selindae]

Also the Hunters I used for examples with HT procs:
Гумелев - 3464239 damage over a 4:33 fight = 12,691 effective DPS
Selindae - 3149110 damage over 4:32 fight = 12,001 effective DPS
Dyveriate - 2910989 damage over a 4:08 fight = 11.738 effective DPS

As one of the people's logs you looked at, I can tell you TED is definitely BiS for BM. In a single target fight, TED is slightly ahead of haromm's (about 2k or so in my gear) but in an AoE situation TED is miles ahead of haromm's due to more than 75% of your AoE damage being from your pet. Had I had the trinket at that time, I would have been using it over haromm's.

[markdall]

As one of the people's logs you looked at, I can tell you TED is definitely BiS for BM. In a single target fight, TED is slightly ahead of haromm's (about 2k or so in my gear) but in an AoE situation TED is miles ahead of haromm's due to more than 75% of your AoE damage being from your pet. Had I had the trinket at that time, I would have been using it over haromm's.

Please pardon me for this off topic "Dayum" but between you and the #1 ranked hunter for H10M piping in, that raid leader has been:

[X] Told
[X] Really Told
[X] TOLDASAURUS REX
[X] Cash4Told.com
and everything else from /r/YouGotTold.

Back on topic, thanks for confirming what had been 'common wisdom'. Those of us who raid but aren't very good (<--) really benefit from these posts.

[Hoofey]

For you moron hunters who don't read my post, I did that math for real world application on a comparison single target, obviously its better for AOE for BM, but my post was to argue that they're BARELY different on single target. The Original poster is trying to say "I should get this because its BIS, even over people who have 528 version of TED I should get it because I have FLEX HAROMMS" the reason I don't give it to Laraven is because other DPS in the raid have LOOKING FOR RAID (THIS IS ITEM LEVEL 528 OKAY) and she has FLEX, but says Haromm's sucks for her, THE WHOLE REASON I POSTED MATH WAS TO SAY THEY'RE BARELY DIFFERENT. Plain and simple, if we were a 14/14 H guild I would worry about giving people their BIS trinkets, but right now we're progressing, so the loot goes to people who it is a LARGER upgrade for. Also... for the people saying I want the trinket, I have had it for months... so obviously that is not my reasoning what so ever.

Your inability to admit that you were wrong is pretty amazing.
You just gotta love the "flawless" people who can never be wrong, or be proven wrong whatsoever.

Always on the defensive until their world falls apart.

Ranking as a hunter usually depends on your luck with proccs, and its pretty hard to compare 2 items using your "real world" strategy just because of all the RNG involved.


2 questions, seeing how the last guys who got the trinket are either bad or left the guild...

Also... for the people saying I want the trinket, I have had it for months... so obviously that is not my reasoning what so ever.

The first time it dropped I won and gave it to my raid leader, a Guardian Druid, because he was fresh 90 and has terribad trinkets.

This person actually passed the first trinket to you , and this is how you repay her?

Second time, a baddie rogue won it, and has since left guild, 3rd time a random feral druid (non-core) won it. And then last night another trial feral druid won it. I am the only core Hunter in our 25m. (also an Officer.)

Why dont you reward your loyal raiders, the guys who stick around untill the end?
Usually pays off in the long run.

[Effinhunter]

TED was 2nd best for BM before the 25->35% boost to AotH and is an even better second best after the hotfix. For BM, TED is pulling away from Haromm's pretty cleanly now. It's not raid breaking, by any means, but it's in the BiS list for a reason.

Loot distribution is of course up to you, but you shouldn't feel you are wasting raid dps giving it to hunters. It's an excellent trinket for BM.