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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    It makes the different races feel different in that there are certain things they do and other things they don't. They're different races, they shouldn't all be the same.

    And as for class lore, the last class that was added had lore that consisted of, "a panda taught us," or the oh so exciting, "a time traveling panda taught us."

    It wouldn't make class lore more diverse, it would make it more generic.
    Yes, it makes some races stuck being only that class. let's be honest, Before Troll Druids, Who rolled a Tauren because they liked the look and design of taurens? about 20% of those who played Tauren. The Same happened with Blood Elf Paladins.

    Instead of adding Diversity as you call it, all it does is make Race useless and class a Priority. If I could be an Orc Druid, I'd fucking love to, instead I choose between Troll or Tauren.

    Or the even better part. Troll paladins have Lore, Gnome Hunter's have Lore. Yet they are not included at all.

  2. #42
    Herald of the Titans Tuor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halefire94 View Post
    Title says it all. The Gameplay element doesn't matter- every race should not be able to be every class. Yes the Lore is already messed up with timelines and what not, but allowing every race to be every class is just too far.
    No worries, Blizzard hasn't stated the oposite, and it seems they not going on that direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Halefire94 View Post
    An Orc paladin would not make any sense what-so-ever. It would not feel right, nor should it. While I will admit some of the race/class combos were pushing the limits (Worgen Druids with the Harvest Witches...) Just saying "fuck it" and abandoning all lore for gameplay just isn't right for the game,

    /endrant
    Still, some combinations are plausable, i'm a huge fan of Nelf Shamans myself. But even i understand that there has to be a limit, i only wished a better balance, makes no sense Humans having 9 class combinations, and Draenei only having 5.

    But the race/class combination limit its so importatnt to WoW that i wouldn't like to see it go, just wanted a better balance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuragalolz View Post
    Perhaps a night elf tried out shamanism. But he would instantly have been considered as a traitor and would've been banished by the night elves.
    They only banned mages because mages nearly destroyed Azeroth... The Maelstorm its the evidance of that cataclysmic event.

    A shaman could not be fully accepted in their society, but it would not be banned, that is for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuragalolz View Post
    Classes not being rollable by every races also stop players from rolling humans/orcs/trolls (cause of their racial) which is a good thing.
    This is why i still support the race/class limit... But i just wished a better balance.
    Last edited by Tuor; 2014-01-27 at 01:10 PM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    Yes, it makes some races stuck being only that class. let's be honest, Before Troll Druids, Who rolled a Tauren because they liked the look and design of taurens? about 20% of those who played Tauren. The Same happened with Blood Elf Paladins.

    Instead of adding Diversity as you call it, all it does is make Race useless and class a Priority. If I could be an Orc Druid, I'd fucking love to, instead I choose between Troll or Tauren.

    Or the even better part. Troll paladins have Lore, Gnome Hunter's have Lore. Yet they are not included at all.
    A class like paladin has different lore for every race that can be that class.

    A class like monk or death knight has the same generic lore for every race.

    The first one is more interesting. Paladins can have that more diverse lore because it is available to fewer races.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuor View Post
    But the race/class combination limit its so importatnt to WoW that i wouldn't like to see it go, just wanted a better balance.
    How is it Important? The fact that Paladins are not Human only and Shaman not Orc only immediately describe the limit as "Pointless"

  5. #45
    Legendary! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halefire94 View Post
    Title says it all. The Gameplay element doesn't matter- every race should not be able to be every class. Yes the Lore is already messed up with timelines and what not, but allowing every race to be every class is just too far.

    An Orc paladin would not make any sense what-so-ever. It would not feel right, nor should it. While I will admit some of the race/class combos were pushing the limits (Worgen Druids with the Harvest Witches...) Just saying "fuck it" and abandoning all lore for gameplay just isn't right for the game,

    /endrant
    Before I go forward, what races can not be which Classes.

    Draenei: Druid, Rogue, Warlock
    Dwarf: Druid
    Gnome: Druid, Hunter, Paladin, Shaman
    Human: Druid, Shaman
    Night Elf: Paladin, Shaman, Warlock

    Blood Elf: Druid, Shaman
    Orc: Druid, Paladin, Priest,
    Tauren: Mage, Rogue, Warlock
    Troll: Paladin
    Undead: Druid, Paladin, Shaman

    He is the thing, the lore of the game has Every-race working together doing stuff together. So they can legitimately open new race class combos with out busting lore.


    Gnomes, Goblins, Worgen, Orcs, Forsaken, Night Elves and Trolls have worked side by side with Argent Dawn and Argent Crusade. Which is a Paladin organization.

    Gnomes, Goblins, Orcs, Forsaken, Humans, and Dwarves have worked with Cenarion Circle and Cenarion Expedition. Which is a Druid organization.

    Gnomes have Hunters and Shamen in game as aggressive NPCs.

    Both Night Elves and Draenai have Warlocks running around the worlds.

    So the lore reason to be restrictive is not so compelling.

    Take Night Elf Mages, they added as a player class, because the Highborn Nightelves from Dire Maul (the Shen'dralar) have rejoined the Night Elves to fight the Greater threats in the world. They took a whole expansion with a Highborn Mage (Archmage Mordent Evenshade) asking to help Tyrande and to be forgiven. Clearly she agreed. And he still hangs out in the Temple of the Moon.

    With the upcoming events, they may do the same thing with Illidian coming back, they could easily say Warlocks have a 4th Melee Spec 'Demon Hunter' in which case All races that were found in TBC would get Warlocks. Yes this would mean technically Night Elf Warlocks are Demon Hunters, same with Draenei.


    From what I see there is room in the current lore to let these races gain these classes with out much stretch.

    Draenei: Warlock (currently in game working for Illidan's forces, they are not Burning Legion. )
    Gnome: Hunter (Only race that can't be a hunter and the race that builds most of the guns in lore), Paladin (Already several NPC Gnomes who are Paladins to include High Tinker Gelbin Mekkatorque )
    Night Elf: Shaman (Several Night Elf NPCs are evil shamen), Warlock (Demon Hunter Night Elves are technically Warlocks, the rumor is Illidian is coming back, and since no Hero Class Demon Hunter 4th Spec warlock is highly possible.)

    Orc: Priest - really they gave gnomes priests who have even less connection to the light than Orcs.
    Tauren: Mage - Tauren NPC Mages are every where. Granted they are usually not good. Although Mages are also connected with every Tauren Subrace.
    Undead: Paladin - Once again Undead Paladins are all over the Argent Dawn and Crusade.

    As to other class race combos, all they need to do is put the lore into the game in the prior expansion and they can add them.

    ie Humans and Orcs going to the Moonglade to study Druidic Arts. Then the next Expansion you can add them.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    A class like paladin has different lore for every race that can be that class.

    A class like monk or death knight has the same generic lore for every race.

    The first one is more interesting. Paladins can have that more diverse lore because it is available to fewer races.
    I agree totally. The first one however doesn't stop every race from being every class. Throw me any combination you wish, I can write you a small snippet that will validate that choice.

    ANY CHOICE.

  7. #47
    Legendary! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovestar View Post
    Sunwalkers are an awesome concept. They feel completely inane in-game because Blizz just copy+pasted the Paladin theme visually / conceptually, then wrote a completely different tribal explanation lorewise.

    If Sunwalkers used tribal / Tauren-flavored spells and abilities, and had their own Tauren-themed Paladin sets, they would feel absolutely awesome. Obviously that's too much work from an art standpoint, but given that, they should have picked a different lore angle.
    It is sad they do not have the ability to make an ability which has a different name be exactly the same with a shading difference. ie Sun themed names and tones, but everything is identical in mechanics. They could do that with every race.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    I agree totally. The first one however doesn't stop every race from being every class. Throw me any combination you wish, I can write you a small snippet that will validate that choice.

    ANY CHOICE.
    Look at the difference between how Blizzard added tauren paladins and how they added human hunters. Tauren paladins got a bunch of special lore about them, human hunters got nothing.

    The reason paladins get individual race lore is because they are available to only 5 races. Hunters don't because they're available to every race.

  9. #49
    Herald of the Titans Tuor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    How is it Important? The fact that Paladins are not Human only and Shaman not Orc only immediately describe the limit as "Pointless"
    I was editing my post whille you quoted me, i've answered it there. The point is to force people and try something diferent, try new races, makes no sense everyone rolling just Orcs and Humans... Its even scary when i think about it.

  10. #50
    I don't care, just give me another druid race! I have to puke from my troll and taurens are not better.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    Look at the difference between how Blizzard added tauren paladins and how they added human hunters. Tauren paladins got a bunch of special lore about them, human hunters got nothing.

    The reason paladins get individual race lore is because they are available to only 5 races. Hunters don't because they're available to every race.
    the reason we got that is simple. We have had tons of human hunters already, adding them was pretty damn obvious.

    We never saw a sunwalker, so instead, we have an introduction, This can be done for every unusual class. Hell, I'll even take up that option of any combination.

    GNOME DRUID ( and Dwarv druid )

    The watchers of Ulduar, their ancient charge now dead and the Iron Legions long since disbanded, have taken to following how the titans influence has diminished and to search for the lost watcher, Tyr.

    Freya and Thorim have taken intrest in the Sons of the Earthen and Mechagnomes, and after bronzebeard's request have come to ironforge.

    The introduction of these proverbial demi-gods has cause major controversy among the Citizens of Dun Morogh, and many come to listen to each watchers wisdom of their creators.

    Over time, these disciples of the watchers have become factions in of themselves learning the ways and ideas of each of the watchers and the titans that have charged them.

    Gnome and Dwarf Druids are not Cenarion druids, but Titanic Disciples of Freya. With Similar druidic forms around more mountain animals with celtic designs for dwarves and a geometrical designs for Gnomes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuor View Post
    I was editing my post whille you quoted me, i've answered it there. The point is to force people and try something diferent, try new races, makes no sense everyone rolling just Orcs and Humans... Its even scary when i think about it.
    So instead everyone plays an Orc or Human... unless the other race has that option.

  12. #52
    the reason we got that is simple. We have had tons of human hunters already, adding them was pretty damn obvious.
    It's because there are less paladin races so they can spend more time on each of them individually. It's the same with troll and worgen druids and goblin shamans, they got individual race lore.

    Things like dwarf mage/warlock, human hunter, undead hunter, troll warlock, etc. just got thrown in there with little to no lore.

    Homogenization would hurt both races and classes in terms of lore.
    Last edited by Wyrt; 2014-01-27 at 01:26 PM.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    It's because there are less paladin races so they can spend more time on each of them individually. It's the same with troll and worgen druids and goblin shamans, they got individual race lore.

    Things like dwarf mage/warlock, human hunter, undead hunter, troll warlock, etc. just got thrown in there with little to no lore.

    Homogenization would hurt both races and classes in terms of lore.
    So the Homogenization is through how it was handled, not through how it was presented. Because if thats the way it works, Druids should be Night elf only, Shaman should be Orc only and Paladins should be Human only otherwise, we're already too far gone with homogenization to even bother.

  14. #54
    Herald of the Titans Tuor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    So instead everyone plays an Orc or Human... unless the other race has that option.
    The race/class limitation exists to prevent that every single Paladin in-game is the one with the most OP raciall's, the same with any other class. Instead Blizzard provids just a bunch of races that can be that class assuring that if a class not avaiable by your favorite race isn't always avaiable, forcing people to go to another race and pick the class you want to try.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuor View Post
    The race/class limitation exists to prevent that every single Paladin in-game is the one with the most OP raciall's, the same with any other class. Instead Blizzard provids just a bunch of races that can be that class assuring that if a class not avaiable by your favorite race isn't always avaiable, forcing people to go to another race and pick the class you want to try.
    How does that stop anything already? If people are wanting to play class and race combos purely for gain, they'll do it now.

    If anything, balance out the racials at the same time.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    So the Homogenization is through how it was handled, not through how it was presented. Because if thats the way it works, Druids should be Night elf only, Shaman should be Orc only and Paladins should be Human only otherwise, we're already too far gone with homogenization to even bother.
    "It's already bad so let's make it worse," isn't a very compelling argument.

  17. #57
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halefire94 View Post
    Title says it all. The Gameplay element doesn't matter- every race should not be able to be every class. Yes the Lore is already messed up with timelines and what not, but allowing every race to be every class is just too far.

    An Orc paladin would not make any sense what-so-ever. It would not feel right, nor should it. While I will admit some of the race/class combos were pushing the limits (Worgen Druids with the Harvest Witches...) Just saying "fuck it" and abandoning all lore for gameplay just isn't right for the game,

    /endrant
    I never understand people who take the game this seriously. It alarms me a bit, in fact. WoW is, after all, a game.

    Meaning that, at the end of the day, fun and gameplay need to be greater than all - even precious lore. The lore and story should serve the game, not the other way around.

    And frankly it's Blizzard's game. Therefore the lore is theirs to 'mess up' as much or as little as they want. If I came up with a story/universe like WoW's, I'd very literally laugh in the faces of people who tried to tell me what I could and could not do with it.

  18. #58
    I am Murloc! Sting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuor View Post
    The race/class limitation exists to prevent that every single Paladin in-game is the one with the most OP raciall's, the same with any other class. Instead Blizzard provids just a bunch of races that can be that class assuring that if a class not avaiable by your favorite race isn't always avaiable, forcing people to go to another race and pick the class you want to try.
    But is that a problem with race/class combos or with racials? I'd say it's more because of racials being unbalanced in the first place.

  19. #59
    Herald of the Titans Tuor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    How does that stop anything already? If people are wanting to play class and race combos purely for gain, they'll do it now.
    Not always with the best results .

    A good example its Paladins, and how good they scale with haste... Do you see any Troll Paladin in the game??

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fiend View Post
    If anything, balance out the racials at the same time.
    I'm all for it .

    Quote Originally Posted by Sting View Post
    But is that a problem with race/class combos or with racials? I'd say it's more because of racials being unbalanced in the first place.
    I would say the main problem is that some races would just be left behind others, because no one enjoys their racial artwork... I love Draenei, but a lot of a lot of people really dislikes them, just a very tinny example.
    Last edited by Tuor; 2014-01-27 at 01:34 PM.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I never understand people who take the game this seriously. It alarms me a bit, in fact. WoW is, after all, a game.

    Meaning that, at the end of the day, fun and gameplay need to be greater than all - even precious lore. The lore and story should serve the game, not the other way around.

    And frankly it's Blizzard's game. Therefore the lore is theirs to 'mess up' as much or as little as they want. If I came up with a story/universe like WoW's, I'd very literally laugh in the faces of people who tried to tell me what I could and could not do with it.
    WoW is an RPG, the story is part of the fun.

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