Something I feel I need to address (LFR)

[Pony Soldier]

I know I know, LFR has been talked to death but this isn't about how it's ruining WoW or anything like that. I actually enjoy LFR unlike others. After a SoO run with a couple of friends in LFR (Underhold) I need to get something off my chest. Ok now first apparently my friends and I weren't doing the best DPS according to some guys DPS chart so my two friends, who were having fun, got kicked because of it. Now first of all, people complain about LFR not being a real raid so why do people come in and act like it is one? I mean if we're clearing bosses, what does a few people's DPS matter? It's like 3 people out of 25 and you're going to kick them because you think kicking them will make a big difference? Then after they were kicked, the leader started saying how the tank didn't move adds where he was supposed to and DPS were getting their priorities wrong when it came to targeting. So here you kicked 2 DPS, yes just 2, who were active and having fun and now you're pointing out problems that are far worse than low DPS like the tank kiting the adds in wrong place and people weren't targeting the right adds, how is that fair? By the way we were on Garrosh and this whole run took us like 2-3 hours so after all that they ended up getting kicked at the final boss, talk about a waste of time. So after I managed to dodge their fire, we ended up finally completing it anyway. So was kicking my 2 friends really worth it?

So anyway I just wanted to get this off my chest because this bothers me greatly. Like I said before, people are always saying how LFR isn't real raiding, fine, but why do people enter an LFR group and then act like we're doing a heroic 25 man raid and kick people for stupid reasons? Now I can understand kicking someone because he/she is AFK all the time but seriously kicking a few DPS because their DPS is low? I thought the whole point of LFR was to help the people who aren't able to do real raids because of whatever reason and to let them experience content they would never get to experience without LFR while also getting cool gear out of it. But here you have people who kick other people because their DPS charts say that this person is doing low DPS and they won't let that stand.

So to conclude this I think it's unfair to kick people who are enjoying themselves in a raid that they would otherwise not be able to do just because their DPS is low. I'm just getting so sick and tired of people like this. And when you really look at it, you're paying for a game where you can't even enjoy yourself sometimes because of people like this, $15 a month just so I can get kicked from a raid that I was enjoying just because my DPS was low. It's like playing a console game and you keep dying so the console quits the game and brings you back to the console home page. But this isn't a console game it's fucking World of Warcraft where everything is serious business. I swear it's like this isn't even a game anymore it's like some business where you must meet the job's requirement or else you get fired. This is why I wish that someday Blizzard would get rid of the kick option in LFR and instead have a system where it would automatically kick people who aren't active for a certain amount of time. That way the people who are active and enjoying themselves can continue to do so without having to worry about getting kicked for retarded reasons like low DPS. I think that as long as you are active and you're doing what you're supposed to be doing, you're fine.

Sorry I know people on MMO-C don't like rants especially when they're about LFR but I feel like this is something I need to get off my chest because it's an issue that needs to be looked at and dealt with and quite frankly, it's fucking annoying.

[xixixviixiiii]

Yeah, yeah... $15 subscription, blah, blah, blah.

Point is, LFR is still a group activity. People need to stop acting entitled and actually pull their weight (in LFR, it is the bare minimum, usually). You have the dungeon journal right there next to the looking for group tool and between the game and online, there are dozens of great resources to help people not suck. There's really no excuse for it. In the amount of time it took you to write that post you could have went to Icy Veins or Mr. Robot and helped your friends pull better DPS.

[Deleted]

May I ask how much dps these friends in question were doing?

[Trix]

May I ask how much dps these friends in question were doing?

I would also like to know.

It must of been really low and a proper friend would of left the group after they were kicked.

If someone is doing pathetic DPS, I'll click yes to the vote kick.

2-3 hours to get to Garrosh also means your group was bad, so I would expect people to get kicked.

[kary]

Did he say 2 hours in LFR? Means you were most likely wiping and people's patience would've been worn thin. In LFR, unless you have people with good gear carrying the group, dps is *always* an issue. The wipes could've been caused by poor dps, I don't know. Good way to up the raid dps is to well... kick the bad dps.

[Zogarth]

Well look at it this way... your fun is maybe impairing others fun. Many (myself included), got LFR as something that you just need to get over with and then move on. Wiping due to low dps is then making me have less fun. If you are lowest DPS in LFR you are doing something wrong and should look to improve it. If you get kicked from LFR for too low dps you are without a doubt performing terribly and should really improve yourself.

WoW is a team-game as much as it seems not to be these days. And in a team-game everyone should try to do their best for the group. It is the same as on Dota/LoL. You may do something wacky that fucks over the team for fun, but your fun will only make it worse for everyone else. And you have no right to make the game worse for others for your own enjoyment.

[daytonbrown]

If you were wiping, it's natural for the group to look to the reasons for the wipe. There could be several reasons, but low dps is traditionally one of them. It's not fair to the 20 or so members who are pulling their weight to spend hours wiping and carrying your low dps friends. That's what the kick feature is there for. If you and your friends don't like it, form your own raid. I don't know what else we could tell you.

[torment3d]

If enough people in the raid agree that the person needs to be kicked for low DPS, it must have been pretty low... LFR DPS is fucking abysmal in the first place so I can't imagine how bad you'd need to be for a vote kick to go through. At ilvl 496 the average DPS output should be at or above 100k DPS. There are certain specs with terrible scaling that might do 90k. That is at the MINIMUM ilvl required to enter SoO. I have seen people do literally 15-20k DPS so many times it's not even funny. I can link better parses than that from when I was raiding ICC HMs. If someone gets kicked from LFR I assume they're doing under 60k DPS, most likely way lower, because that seems like a number you commonly see towards the bottom of the meters. Please tell us how much DPS we're talking here!

[Deleted]

To expand on my question somewhat, there is a certain dps requirement in lfr to actually be able to beat the boss, so kicking people for low dps could be viable depending on the situation. Also sometimes when you have low dps it can look like you are slacking (or afking). If I'm in a group and someone has genuinely bad dps but not through slacking or afking then I wouldn't feel like kicking them was fair, however if they were killing themselves at the beginning of fights or using 1 ability every 10 seconds to make it look like they are doing something then they do deserved to be kicked.

[Heladys]

If you got kicked for "not the best" dps it wasn't because you weren't "the best" it was because you were ludicrously low and the raid needed contributors to succeed.

Week after week I see people sitting on the wrong mobs and autoattacking, racking up impressive 28-29k dps while not contributing at all to the killing of the boss or the mechanics of the fight, or the occasional sort who's actually sorta trying to hit a button every now and then and is doing 46k dps all kitted out in 528s.

It takes actual effort to be that bad. You could mash your buttons and pull off 70k.

My monk hit 90, equipped the 496 timeless isle gear, hit LFR, and did 90k. Got a 528 weapon and started doing 120k. This stuff ain't rocket science.

I don't mind if people are somewhat low so long as they're not problematic and they're contributing well, but by the time an LFR gets to kicking you for low dps you must really have stood out.

[Deleted]

It's difficult to judge without having been there/seeing numbers. I disagree with some of the other posters saying that to get enough people to kick them it must have been terrible - a lot of folk will just follow a call to kick so-and-so without paying much attention.

That said, if you can't do enough dps such that the boss would go down with everyone doing that amount, then you probably shouldn't be in LFR. Some of the time there will be better geared/more skilled players to carry a few who aren't, but it isn't fair to rely on that.

[Draknalor186]

fun dosen't kill the boss, good dps does, if you and your friends were doing awfully low dps, not even trying so too say, you were just begin a pain too the grp, so kicking those two could give the chance too bring in 2 new dps that would actully do some damage, 2 new dps can actully be the Life or death decider

And also, this could be called a new form of griefing "i think it's fun too go into your raid and do low dps, because that just slows the grp down, BUT ITS FUN FOR ME!"

[Basemath]

It doesn't matter how much DPS they were doing Mozez. They weren't AFK, that's all that matters. They were trying, and they were, as OP said, having fun. And JEEZ it was the last boss, have the decency to take a few determination buffs and it'll be a kill, seeing how the two kicked were already 2-3 hours into the raid.

Dick move TBH. While i've seen it happen a few times, it isn't really a common occurrence. Simply because the number of kind people in LFR is larger than that of douche bags with superiority complexes/insecurities who try to compensate in LFR. Don't let it discourage you.

Myself I usually tank LFRs for the queue times, even though my main spec is DPS. So I usually take it upon myself to mark things up and ask if anyone needs tips. Last LFR Underhold was such a pleasant run because of the atmosphere I helped create. One nice fellow actually said something like "am I dreaming? This cannot be LFR." Felt good And the highest DPS on Malk n Thok were 90-100k DPS, enough for LFR. Had I been in your raid, I would've tried to bait 'kicker' into revealing his identity, and then booted his ass.

- - - Updated - - -

And also, this could be called a new form of griefing "i think it's fun too go into your raid and do low dps, because that just slows the grp down, BUT ITS FUN FOR ME!"

This is pretty much the epitome of retard. OP sounds exactly like the opposite of what you describe.

[Trix]

And also, this could be called a new form of griefing "i think it's fun too go into your raid and do low dps, because that just slows the grp down, BUT ITS FUN FOR ME!"

You obviously haven't heard of the new buff you get in LFR, for each player having fun, the boss takes an additional 2% extra damage.

Sadly LFR is anything but fun, and the bosses know if you're not having fun.

[Deleted]

It doesn't matter how much DPS they were doing Mozez. They weren't AFK, that's all that matters. They were trying, and they were, as OP said, having fun. And JEEZ it was the last boss, have the decency to take a few determination buffs and it'll be a kill, seeing how the two kicked were already 2-3 hours into the raid.

I suppose their dps isn't really important as you said but nonetheless I am curious. It's not often I see people kicked for bad dps, last night in my lfr we kicked some druid because he had queued as a healer and then was just dps'ing, after accusing him about it he said "lol". Had he said "Oh, I'm sorry I'll switch to healing now" then that would have been fine, although he was clearly just abusing the system. Personally I'd never kick someone unless they are purposefully being a problem to the group or if they were just killing themselves at the start so they can afk until the boss is killed, or maybe if they are being a dick - like really being a dick. Even then most of the time I'd try and give people a chance to say something about it, instead of kicking them blindly before even bothering to hear what they have to say.

[Terridon]

Depends on the dps. People can have fun and do unacceptble low dps, and considered they were the only 2 that got kicked, they probably did less than 50k, which is unacceptable low if you've been wiping on the other bosses for hours.
I don't care much about peoples dps in lfr, but i don't like people doing 20-30k either, despite them talking and having fun. Click more buttons in random order then.

[torment3d]

I suppose their dps isn't really important as you said but nonetheless I am curious. It's not often I see people kicked for bad dps, last night in my lfr we kicked some druid because he had queued as a healer and then was just dps'ing, after accusing him about it he said "lol". Had he said "Oh, I'm sorry I'll switch to healing now" then that would have been fine, although he was clearly just abusing the system. Personally I'd never kick someone unless they are purposefully being a problem to the group or if they were just killing themselves at the start so they can afk until the boss is killed, or maybe if they are being a dick - like really being a dick. Even then most of the time I'd try and give people a chance to say something about it, instead of kicking them blindly before even bothering to hear what they have to say.

I typically go by similar guidelines, but on the other hand I recognize that it's OK for people to initiate kicks based on super low DPS. If you queue into a raid and can't perform at an average skill level for your spec, you should understand that there's a chance people will notice and take action. I spend a lot of time legitimately helping people that aren't up to date with stat priorities and rotations and such but even in that case I would really prefer if those people would spend their time in lower LFRs testing that stuff out. I would not want to see someone doing 40k DPS on Garrosh for example. Although I wouldn't start a vote kick over it, I wouldn't blame the person who does.

- - - Updated - - -

Depends on the dps. People can have fun and do unacceptble low dps, and considered they were the only 2 that got kicked, they probably did less than 50k, which is unacceptable low if you've been wiping on the other bosses for hours.
I don't care much about peoples dps in lfr, but i don't like people doing 20-30k either, despite them talking and having fun. Click more buttons in random order then.

I think if I just right click the dummy and /afk I will come back to a 55k dps readout on the meter. How you can do worse than that is beyond me.

[Deleted]

I think it's unfair to kick people who are enjoying themselves in a raid that they would otherwise not be able to do just because their DPS is low

If Everyone in the raid was playing as badly as these kicked people would the raid have still wiped? If the answers yes then maybe you have a self-entitlement issue. Yes you pay your subscription fee, so does the majority of everyone else in LFR and Those that kicked your friends were probably thinking " I don't pay 15 bucks to carry low DPS through LFR". Is it fair that just your friends got kicked, probably not, they way you make it out its sounds as if a lot more kicks where in order. IF they don't want to be kicked for Low DPS, don't do low DPS. Just like if you don't want to be kicked for being an ass hat to the LFR group, don't be an asshat to the LFR group. YOur right to have hun stops as soon as it compromises someone elses right to have fun.

Also Garrosh isn't in underhold, and if you've wiped on the Garrosh Encounter, LFR has done its job of letting you experience content without having to do "real raiding" (god thats a terrible term).

[Pony Soldier]

But see how most of you are responding is exactly my point. People take this game too seriously like if it wasn't even a game but a constant competition. We were clearing bosses. The only problem was that people weren't dodging what they were supposed to or targeting the right adds it wasn't DPS and it being our first time in this raid it's only natural to fail it the first time. People just looks at the bottom of their DPS charts and see those 3-5 people and automatically say "yeah, that's the problem right there" and not think that maybe people aren't doing the fight the right way. People act like if you want to play this game you have to be the best there is or else you get kicked from everything. What kind of video game is that? And then to say "well if you don't like it form your own raid guild" is just plain inconsiderate because none of us have the time to maintain a proper raiding guild which is why we're in LFR in the first place.

Man I feel like I'm the only person on WoW that just plays to have fun and everybody else is like super serious about everything. Is it so wrong for a person to just have fun playing without worrying about his/her performance? And about that dungeon journal, yeah I read it all the fucking time but if you want to fully understand the fight you have to experience it for yourself. Half the time I read the thing I'm just like "uh, ok" because since I never did the raid I don't know what each move is really like. If this game is such a "group effort" game maybe Blizzard should advertise that in their ads for WoW to warn people that if you don't meet your groups needs or you're not willing to go on youtube to research each fight in a raid, you might as well walk away from the game right now.

I can understand striving to be the best player you can be in a game but I'm the type of person who just plays game to experience the story and have fun with it, not to compete with everyone. But I guess when it comes to WoW you can't do that because this is World of fucking Warcraft and here we mean serious business.

[Sansnom]

I know I know, LFR has been talked to death but this isn't about how it's ruining WoW or anything like that. I actually enjoy LFR unlike others. After a SoO run with a couple of friends in LFR (Underhold) I need to get something off my chest. Ok now first apparently my friends and I weren't doing the best DPS according to some guys DPS chart so my two friends, who were having fun, got kicked because of it. Now first of all, people complain about LFR not being a real raid so why do people come in and act like it is one? I mean if we're clearing bosses, what does a few people's DPS matter? It's like 3 people out of 25 and you're going to kick them because you think kicking them will make a big difference? Then after they were kicked, the leader started saying how the tank didn't move adds where he was supposed to and DPS were getting their priorities wrong when it came to targeting. So here you kicked 2 DPS, yes just 2, who were active and having fun and now you're pointing out problems that are far worse than low DPS like the tank kiting the adds in wrong place and people weren't targeting the right adds, how is that fair? By the way we were on Garrosh and this whole run took us like 2-3 hours so after all that they ended up getting kicked at the final boss, talk about a waste of time. So after I managed to dodge their fire, we ended up finally completing it anyway. So was kicking my 2 friends really worth it?

Unfortunate experience but that is something that will happen with the random group finder. It is unfortunate that some players are not interested in helping others. If you are not as good as them, then you are scrubs and a hindrance to their quick fast run for VP, gear etc.

Personally I don't care about about this as long as the group is clearing. You will find people AFK but that is again part of the package with the LFR. There is the game min requirement and there is the community's min requirement. In the random group finder, it is everybody for themselves. Unfortunately.