Edge of the Mists - February 4th

[Lane]

I am staunchly anti-"mingling" of PvE and PvP. I understand that it's not a big deal to people who PvP casually or otherwise, but many "carebears" are basically just lambs to the slaughter in these cases. I've certainly had my fair share of being trolled, camped, hunted, farmed, whatever you want to call it, just trying to accomplish one task for an otherwise PvE-oriented achievement. It's not even remotely fun and frankly brings out the absolute worst in players. I will always believe that these two modes should be kept completely separate.

[Meledelion]

As both a hardcore pvper and pveer I agree with you Lane.

[Arlee]

They could have a lot of story be told through a story instance like they did this patch in Lion's Arch and in Scarlet's secret lair while all the pew pew, kill all the things game play is being done in the Edge of the Mists. Plus the Aether Blades are invading the mists and will be present in this new map so there's chances for some story info to be in there as well. We'll just have to wait and see what they do.

That is quite possible. I was just explaining why some people seem upset about it and the fact that the upsetness has nothing to with people not wanting WvW'ers to get a patch but rather has everything to do with how expectations were set by Arenanet themselves.

who tells you that this is gonna be a WvW addition. The map itself could be a PvE map for this livng story update just like any other PvE Map we got, only one server and a lot of invading Scarlet-minions.

The EOTM WvW version will probably go live after this update.

Because the entire idea of EOTM has always been presented as part of a solution to help fix issues in WvW. And I'd like to point out... read the quote I was responding to. That guy was saying it's a WvW update and was complaining about people being upset by that. I was just explaining why some people are upset about it and pointing out that it had nothing at all to do with people not wanting WvWers to get an update.

I am staunchly anti-"mingling" of PvE and PvP. I understand that it's not a big deal to people who PvP casually or otherwise, but many "carebears" are basically just lambs to the slaughter in these cases. I've certainly had my fair share of being trolled, camped, hunted, farmed, whatever you want to call it, just trying to accomplish one task for an otherwise PvE-oriented achievement. It's not even remotely fun and frankly brings out the absolute worst in players. I will always believe that these two modes should be kept completely separate.

I very much agree with you as well Lane. In general when people don't participate in a particular style of play in a game it's because they have strong feelings against that playstyle and forcing them to do it doesn't make anyone happy.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh total fail on my part >< I quoted the wrong person, no wonder you guys were confused by what I was saying

I meant to respond to this:

People are forgetting that this will primarily be a WvW patch. Edge of the Mist provides something for WvW players to do while waiting for queues or when BLs are empty. Is is really that awful for WvW players to get an update every once in awhile, espically for a problem that needed a solution months ago?

[Fencers]

I am staunchly anti-"mingling" of PvE and PvP.

I enjoy both. I am a rather competitive player. Like I love Esports and hardocre WF/ladder racing.

Competition kinda brings out the worst in me from a "Go go go! Kill them all! No sleep till Brooklyn!" POV when I am in that competitive mindset. I will go with out food and sleep to down a boss or win a match and I am willing to do this for HOURS nonstop. Very unhealthy impulses.

So I tend to avoid PVP in games where I am likely to get frustrated by concessions to one game modes over the other. I like to play and enjoy purely PVP games- DOTA2, Starcraft 2, Street Fighter or Warframe for example. Not the hybrids most MMOs employ.

However, I don't believe PVP and PVE game modes should be separate as a general rule. Logically, they should be harmonious or one shouldn't exist.

It's often pandering and money grabbing that leads to PVP being allowed in majorly PVE game design. PVP is popular and having it is a bullet on the back of the box.

[Meledelion]

The best RPG pvp I've ever played was GW1 when pvp was (close to) 90% seperate.

[Valeron]

I'd probably agree with that although for some reason I never really enjoyed the pvp in GW1. The most enjoyable PVP for me was actually in Warhammer (even though it wasn't the best, if all of that can make sense).

[Deleted]

All anet had to do was to take a look at the forums the first (& every other time) that they added some PvE into WvWs.
It hit the fan.
Same has happened with even world explorer or whatever it`s called since the game came out, PvErs moan about having to enter WvWs to discover those last few areas.

PvErs hate PvP & PvPers hate PvE.
Hell, you even get folk on other games bitching that they got killed by other players, on a PvP server of all places
Then again, it`ll only be the full/top tier servers that`ll have to go in there as lower servers will be able to get into their maps more often then not.

[Fencers]

The best RPG pvp I've ever played was GW1 when pvp was (close to) 90% seperate.

I agree. But only in the certain modes of PVP. The casual PVP like FA/JQ was kinda terrible. Fun but terrible compared to HA or GvG.

My husband was one of the top PVPers in GW1. He has that dragon or tiger emote thing from whatever season he won the tournament in. I was more of a GvG-er in GW1.

Those matches were... titanic. The tension in a match was unbelievable. I think only the original Counter-Strike and Brood War came close to giving you that edge of your seat, its-about-get-too-real-too-fast action in a PVP game mode.

DOTA2 is close, but the matches are designed to snowball at a certain point. So kinda ruins the intermediary tension.

PvErs hate PvP & PvPers hate PvE.

This isn't really true as a general statement. A lot of people, myself included, just want the respective game modes to be excellent. Without compromise to the other.

A difficult feat and rarely accomplished. But that is the desire nonetheless for many.

The most enjoyable PVP for me was actually in Warhammer (even though it wasn't the best, if all of that can make sense).

I enjoyed the RvR lakes in Warhammer quite a bit. But kill trading was kinda ruinous when you were in the lower tier zones. Sieges were very fun, though often lopsided due the massive server imbalances that ultimately destroyed the game community.

Age of Conan sieges were fantastic too. Good combat engine for PVP in it's heyday. Such as that "heyday" was...

[Maarius]

again, why does everyone think that this will be PvE in WvW? Does it only sound to me like they use the WvW map for a PvE experience for those 2 weeks?

[Meledelion]

I doubt anyone took JQ and FA seriously, FA was very imbalanced and JQ could just get "bombed", same for AB. There's a reason why I hate factions with all my heart and in part it has to do with the mess it caused to a perfectly balanced PvP meta.

The ranks weren't given for winning the tournament, each win you got in HA gave 1rank point, winning again would give you +1 (so 2wins = +2, 3+3 and so on).

Both HA and GvG were awesome although very different. I liked that in HA you had to bring everything and work it out to be successful. You needed runners, blockers, slowers,...
GvG was nice because you had to account for many maps and play-styles. If you come across a split team, you better have figured out in advance who goes where and so on.

[Karizee]

PvErs hate PvP & PvPers hate PvE.

That's a dumb comment and when it dies it will leave a dumb corpse.

[Deleted]

That's a dumb comment and when it dies it will leave a dumb corpse.

& your pointless reply that gave no reasons as to why was any better...?

[Shaede]

Personally I can only hope they introduce a boss or something like that in a WvW map. I think a contested boss would be really cool for the WvW communities. Sure people can devote their time to trolling servers who are trying to kill it but that also means they are both are leaving other areas vulnerable. IDK all the logistics for I don't design games, but I think it would be interesting to say the least.

As with every other LS patch, people will say 'well this one isn't for you' and I am inclined to agree with them. Can't please everyone so might as well capitalize on it.

[Deleted]

I like the fact that they finally seem to make longer time span for LS updates, I don't have much time to play and I'm a perfectionalist when it comes to stuff like this, so it pissed me off when I couldn't get all achievements during two weeks.

[Maarius]

& your pointless reply that gave no reasons as to why was any better...?

his reply was 100% accurate, there are tons of people I know that love both, me included.

[Deleted]

his reply was 100% accurate, there are tons of people I know that love both, me included.

Those are PvXers, not PvP or PvE...

[Svifnymr]

again, why does everyone think that this will be PvE in WvW? Does it only sound to me like they use the WvW map for a PvE experience for those 2 weeks?

We won't know until it hits, obviously, but that seems a bit of wishful thinking at best. I can't see them adding a Wv zone and not having PvP in it. Hopefully they'll also have some other objectives (or at least, have a meta-achievement I don't care about).

- - - Updated - - -

It is worth keeping in mind that WvW is meant to be casual PVP just like JQ and FA were in GW1. So it's not too new a device in genre or on Anet's end of development.

I like to think of Wv as their answer to PvP Servers. It's PvE objectives while fighting other players, basically.

[Shaede]

in case anyone still doesn't know, this is definitely wvw. you can see a preview of the entire zone on bogotters youtube channel..here's the first 1 in a series explaining each zone. It looks like a pretty fun map tho for WvW with what seem to be a lot of choke points so I hope that is to encourage smaller group play then just zerg.

http://youtu.be/slEWH5E0-I8

(I believe this is the first video out of the series)

[Zephyr Storm]

That's a dumb comment and when it dies it will leave a dumb corpse.

Your comment is the dumb one.

- - - Updated - - -

his reply was 100% accurate, there are tons of people I know that love both, me included.

Said like it's a fact with absolutely no proof.

There are tons of people that I know that only really like one and not the other. So my anecdotal evidence cancels your out. Herpa derpa.

[Lane]

Personally I can only hope they introduce a boss or something like that in a WvW map. I think a contested boss would be really cool for the WvW communities. Sure people can devote their time to trolling servers who are trying to kill it but that also means they are both are leaving other areas vulnerable. IDK all the logistics for I don't design games, but I think it would be interesting to say the least.

They already have two that I know of in Eternal Battlegrounds: the overgrown grub and the arboreal spirit. The rewards for killing both are terrible, of course, and because they take so long to kill people get frustrated and want to move on to something else.

I think they would have to give a huge WXP bonus for them to be worth it to anyone. The time it takes to do them really isn't worth a rare + a bunch of junk. I've fought the tree a couple of times and even with a 20+ man zerg it took long enough for an opposing server to cap all of our side but the keep.