Why the !@#$ would you remove passives? Passives are NOT ability bloat.
Let me see... Throw/Heroic Throw- Heroic Throw simply replaces Throw. .5 second cast time, no CD, no rage cost ability that deals 50% weapon damage, resets the auto-attack. One button gone if anyone had throw keybinded. Glyphing for silence makes the silence only occur once per 30 seconds.
Heroic Strike/Cleave- old "iconic" ability for warriors thats not used too often. However, it can be used as a rage dump for prot if you don't mind sacrificing mitigation for more damage (Farm content), and in the very rare even that Arms can't dump rage with slam, keep it. Have it deal 50% damage to 2 other targets for Prot, remove Cleave.
Sunder Armor- SHOULD be made baseline into Colossal Smash for arms/fury. Glyph will cause it to grant the additional 2 stacks/AoE sunder or something.
Deep Wounds- DO NOT REMOVE PASSIVES! Warrior bleeds have been around since Vanilla. Damage from bleeds was made mostly passive through WotLK->Cata, and entirely passive during MoP. It also is a "tuning" nob that blizz can use to adjust warrior damage without raising burst too overly much.
Hamstring- Piercing Howl should "replace" Hamstring if selected as a talent. Otherwise leave Hamstring as is.
Battle Shout/Commanding Shout- yes, merge them. Many, MANY other classes can bring 2 buffs+debuffs to the party, warriors/paladins can't. Do same with Blessing of Kings/Might.
Blood and Thunder- once again, passive, do NOT remove passives.
Berserker Rage- essential for Fury. Old ability. Not likely to go, 6 sec CC immunity MAY be removed to a simple break however.
Demo Shout- Prot's version of the 20% DR cd found in other tanking classes. Does not contribute to ability bloat. Should not be removed.
Ultimatum- another passive, do not remove passives. Helps to get out some HS for prot.
Bastion of Defence- another passive, do not remove passives.
Recklessness- should be merged with Skull Banner, or Skull Banner merged with it.
Mocking Banner- with the advent of the 2 new AoE talents, is no longer neccesary. Can see it going.
Demoralizing Banner- Can be merged with Rallying Cry. Can also see it going.
As for talents...
Juggernaut, since its been nerfed from its original purpose, kinda sticks out from the "more charge" passives of the other 2 choices. However, it DOES allow for an extra choice IF you don't want those extra charges, but need your charge'd target to stay in place.
ER/SW/IV- I can't really call these weak at all. All 3 talents offer a large amount of healing on a very short CD. IV, 20% health per 30 seconds, or .67 health per second. 1 GCD, 10 rage cost, rage cost removed/CD reset if player is killed. Shortest CD "big heal" there is, outside of casted spells. ER, 40% heal, 1 min CD. Same boat as IV. SW, strongest raw number heal there is, but has drawback of 35% health requirement.
Overall, the healing tier is very, very strong. Very few adjustments needed.
3rd tier- Will most likely see changes in WoD CC pass.
4th tier- needs rebalancing here and there. PvP wise, Bladestorm+Bloodbath is both high damage and very hard to counter. Only 2 ways to counter it is to A) Knockback warrior, or B) get the !@#$ away from warrior quickly. A) is limited to only a few classes- hunters, shamans, druids, warlocks. B) isn't as limited, but requires certain talent choices for half the classes, and can't be entirely avoided for others. Not only that, but both are up very often, can be combined with speed boosting abilities, snares the targets, have a wide radius, ect. Is very OP. Shockwave needs damage boost to compete with other 2 single target. Dragon's Roar is more in the middle ground- outshined by BS in any multi-target situation, but good for ST, and was good choice pre-BS buff. Does not need to go.
MSR- yea, an extra spell reflect is overkill. Could be changed. Most likely outright replacing SR and going back to cata-talent where SR reflected spells from allies.
Anyone, OP, your primary fault, in my eyes, was calling for the removal of Passives. Passives do NOT contribute to ability bloat, at all. Merging certain passives has no point whatsoever. In addition, many of your changes does not take into account the current playstyle of one or more warriors out there. (Fury balance, PvP). Yes, there IS room for removing some abilities to reduce the number of keybindings. That is what ability bloat removal is all about- reducing the number of keybinded abilities out there. This can be mostly served by merging abilities, or making other abilities passive.
I apologize for the late response but all three classes are going to be adept at two handed weapons and such or near mastery. That's just one thing that they have in common. It doesn't necessarily mean they'll get the same tools/utility another does. Those three classes if anything will have different named abilities.If the warrior class identity is the master of weapons and warfare, then our toes are well and truly stepped on by death knights and paladins.
Although utility/raid utility might be the way to go to give more class identity(Not just speaking Warriors).
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Flurry is passive, and should be removed or redesigned because in it's current state it might as well be the precious's ribbon buff. Removal would (very slightly) boost the value of haste, which is a stat that Blizzard is trying to boost. Everything else is fine.Anyone, OP, your primary fault, in my eyes, was calling for the removal of Passives.
Regarding Cleave, I'd hate to remove it. I mean it's iconic to our class. I'd like to see it buffed though to make it more worthwhile.
Get rid of Throw. Give Heroic Throw a slight buff and/or CD reduction, and make the silence permanent in PVE.
Keep both Battle and Commanding Shout. Remove the CD on both, but make it so they only give rage every minute. Increase the duration so they can actually be relied upon as raid buffs.
Overall im not a fan of ability culling. But those are the ones that are possible without making gameplay much worse.
-merge rallying+demo banner
-merge reck+skull banner
-remove Cleave and bake it into Meatcleaver somehow
-remove HS for Arms only
-remove whirlwind for arms
As for WildStar's limited action set, what that means is that you have eight slots on your bar and that's it; you get to choose, from quite a wide selection, what eight make it there. I'd think of it more as a talent selector than what you describe with FFXIV (which I won't discuss, 'cos I haven't played).
I would just like to point out that:
1 How long a spell has been in the game should not even be considered as an argument to keep or remove it
2 You guys are thinking about the game today without some spells. If they cut down the number of Fear spells in WoD we shouldnt keep a Fear breaker anymore.
All in all, I think the smart way to solve this is to modify existing abilities, which are relatively similar:
- heroic strike hits three targets. Cleave gone.
- Commanding Shout buffs Health and AP. Battle Shout gone.
- Skullbanner adds Recklessness as a personal buff. Recklessness gone. Could be problematic to balance around two warriors who want to Reck during initial phase at the same time.
- Die by the sword for all speccs. Demoshout gone. Adjust for prot if too OP. Adjust CD as well then.
- Reduce CD of heroic throw, bake Glyph of Impaling Throws into it. Throw gone.
- Spellreflect stay as it is. Remove Massspellreflect. Replace with passive talent, that adds Massspellreflect ability to Spellreflect. Massspellreflect as a button gone.
- Bake Hamstring into Heroic Strike (Like that Hindering Strikes-Glyph). Make Heroic Strike more interesting for Arms. Keeps it off gcd. Hamstring gone.
- Bake Colossus Smash Glyph into Colossus Smash. Add glyph to apply two additional stacks with it. Sunder Armor gone.
Things that should stay and why:
- Berserkerrage. Make it our root, snare, daze and fearbreaker. Increase CD to one minute.
- Deep wounds. Bleeds were around since classic and contribute to class identity. Also, pressure on casters.
And a few suggestions, which not contribute to ability bloat:
- Make Demo-Banner a Moralizing banner. Debuffing stuff sucks. Buffing the raid wins.
- Shattering Throw 3 Minute cd. Perhaps lower the amount of armor, which is reduced.
My point is, that the banners utility should´t be castrated like that. It should buff the group instead of debuffing the enemy. Think of it as a glorious banner, raising the group´s spirit, sparking its fighting will... Or whatever. Flavor wise.
While you used a bunch of talents and passive abilities, which have NOTHING to do with ability bloat, some of the non-passive things that can be removed;
Intimidating Shout (how has nobody mentioned this, it's probably taking up a keybind and do you use it anywhere outside of pvp?(and rarely at that))
Cleave (merge it with HS)
Berserker rage can go IF! fury doesn't need to rely on it so heavily for RB procs, especially early on in the expansion.
Shouts can be merged
Shattering throw needs to be made instant cast or removed.
Intervene could be removed from fury and arms, if not altogether. It adds a lot of mobility to warriors in pvp (thus scaling that back by removing it) and isn't used much in pve.
Disarms should be removed across the board, they are just another slot on the bar and more CC.
Those deaths are the best just because they're of the "WTF" variety. I never realize I intervened the tank, and there can be a 3-10 second delay in the attack being transferred to kill me.
On a serious note, I use intervene on a lot of fights with heavy movement. While moments like the above suck, moments like this on siegecrafter are pretty awesome:
(Demo banner is used due to heavy raid damage, double bonus.)
From the belt to the boss on the other side of the room in 3~ seconds.
With Blizzard making more complex encounters every tier, we really do not want to give up the added mobility of intervene.
(Edit: Also, best minor glyph idea in the history of WoW: Intervene no longer intercepts damaging attacks. )
Last edited by CollisionTD; 2014-01-29 at 11:16 PM.
That's not the ability's fault, that's a call for improving your binds.