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  1. #1

    Adding more DR won't solve the CC issue in PvP

    People will just avoid playing with class that DRs their CC which will cause much less combos to viable
    this fix is really bad

    they just need to remove some CC or make them talents on same tier

    for example
    make polymorph on same tier as ring of frost
    make scatter shot on same tier with wyvern sting
    make storm bolt on same tier with shockwave
    and so on

  2. #2
    they said multiple times that they will cut down some cc

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazdum View Post
    they said multiple times that they will cut down some cc
    I was referring to this http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/11222852180?page=2#27

    they think they will fix CC by making more CCs share DR but it will make PvP much worse

  4. #4
    it depends on how they re do the dr's

    if you make a "magic" category so lock fear, poly, ect
    while melee get a "physical" category.

    while stuns, snares, disorients be given to melee, while "magic" cc are given to range. That opens up more possibities while gutting the "cleave" comps

    of course the instant spam cc should be the first priority.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspellz View Post
    it depends on how they re do the dr's

    if you make a "magic" category so lock fear, poly, ect
    while melee get a "physical" category.

    while stuns, snares, disorients be given to melee, while "magic" cc are given to range. That opens up more possibities while gutting the "cleave" comps

    of course the instant spam cc should be the first priority.
    if they do that it fucks more combos than opens up

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by motorboatt View Post
    if they do that it fucks more combos than opens up
    only with regards to "cleaves", granted hybrids would need its own rework in that regards. ww is a good example of how their cc dr's with casters they would other wise syngergieze with.

    and really doubt many people will care about mage/lock/x synergy get broken.
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  7. #7
    I am Murloc! Korgoth's Avatar
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    They cant remove spells it causes the pve players to become confused and angry. They can't not add more spells because it causes the pve players to become confused and angry.

    As such Blizzard's only recourse with fixing CC in PvP is either to make the PVE players confused and angry or implement massive DR on the now massive amount of CCs in the game with more to come.
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  8. #8
    Pit Lord DiscoGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motorboatt View Post
    I was referring to this http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/11222852180?page=2#27

    they think they will fix CC by making more CCs share DR but it will make PvP much worse
    so with this logic worse case scenario there will just be less viable comps. it cant get any worse anyway. i take that back, it could get worse.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoGhost View Post
    so with this logic worse case scenario there will just be less viable comps. it cant get any worse anyway. i take that back, it could get worse.
    Or less overpowered comps.

  10. #10
    The issue with PvP and CC is that the only way to kill anyone is to mass CC someone and burst another down. This means 3 things

    As long as a healer is left alone nothing will ever die
    Kills are achieved around a pile of CC
    kills are achieved with huge burst damage

    This means kills revolve around windows of a few seconds when CC isn't on DR (and is off CD) and burst is off CD. If CC is reduced a lot how are we supposed to kill anything? With a ton of burst cooldowns? Yeah, that's fun. If burst cooldowns are removed then nothing would ever die, either. So what then?

    The real solution is to nerf healers in PvP. Make it so healers need to hard cast more and just generally heal for less. Sustained damage from 2 targets on a single target should kill it within 10 seconds even if the target is getting healed. Only CC and big cooldowns should stop it, which there should also be less of. Otherwise matches last until the battle fatigue debuff until it even becomes possible to kill anything - rendering the first 10 minutes of an arena a complete useless waste of time.

    healers are simply too powerful and it's a result of the abundance of instant cast big heals they've received over the years.. which is a result of the CC everyone else got. When CC gets cut back so needs to be healing in PvP. That's the real problem.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by yogzula View Post
    The real solution is to nerf healers in PvP. Make it so healers need to hard cast more and just generally heal for less. Sustained damage from 2 targets on a single target should kill it within 10 seconds even if the target is getting healed. Only CC and big cooldowns should stop it, which there should also be less of. Otherwise matches last until the battle fatigue debuff until it even becomes possible to kill anything - rendering the first 10 minutes of an arena a complete useless waste of time.

    healers are simply too powerful and it's a result of the abundance of instant cast big heals they've received over the years.. which is a result of the CC everyone else got. When CC gets cut back so needs to be healing in PvP. That's the real problem.
    You are wrong by stating this. Too many people want to make healers irrelevant until they need a healer themselves. The reason healing is so powerful is because of PvE the same reason damage is so high. Healers need to be able to heal through the massive about of damage bosses put out. Due to dps damage output that trickled into PvP, healers need to be able to heal through the insane burst of dps. People complain about making comps bad or a certain dps gets nerfed and everyone cries but who needs healers right? I'm ok with cc and even bringing down instant heals as long as damage output is severely reduced. How's that?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    They cant remove spells it causes the pve players to become confused and angry. They can't not add more spells because it causes the pve players to become confused and angry.

    As such Blizzard's only recourse with fixing CC in PvP is either to make the PVE players confused and angry or implement massive DR on the now massive amount of CCs in the game with more to come.
    Which is baffling after the outcry of having to use said CC abilities in Cata Heroics.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    I feel that having CCs DR on a much larger scale would help significantly. One of the more annoying 2v2 matches I have come across lately was a MM hunter/Disc priest combo. The hunter was capable of CCing me for 12 seconds by himself with a simple scatter shot-freezing trap combo, once every 30 seconds. He was also using Wyvern Sting every other cycle for an extra 4 seconds. The priest would then come in and fear me for an additional 8 seconds. If I wasn't immune to roots, then I would probably have been CCd for an extra 2-4 seconds after that with his roots. This meant that I was CCd for a total of 20-24 seconds every 30 second period, or over 66% of the time!

    My partner was able to survive the hunters damage, as he was a warrior and was good at LoSing the hunter at crucial moments. However, we were unable to put out any pressure for the first 3 minutes, until I got the bright idea of having both of us stand on the freezing traps whenever it came out- if my partner was CCd, it would be quickly broken by the hunter's shots. Of course, this still meant a good 12 seconds being CC'd every 30 with no way to avoid it on my self. Needless to say, since the hunter was unable to break my partner's second wind, we managed to down the team about 2 minutes into dampening. Still, it was a very annoying fight, and lead me to realize that in a 3s situation, its entirely possible for a player to be shut down for the enter 30 seconds without a defensive dispel of some sort.

    Thus, I believe that DRs should be on a MUCH larger spectrum for players only. Breakable CCs- Disorients, Fears, Sheeps, ect. If it prevents you from acting, BUT can be broken out of if damaged, it'll share a DR with similar effects. Stun CCs- if it prevents any action for its duration, it should share a CC. This goes from basic stuns, to cyclone. Silence, Disarm, and Root CCs should also all share DR with each other. Thus, if you get silenced, disarmed, or rooted, the next silence/disarm/root will have a reduced duration.

    If much larger DR catagories aren't implemented, the only other option is to take trinkets and put them on a much shorter CD, 45-60 seconds. The 2 min CD trinket first came out when there were very few CCs in the game- a few roots, mage sheep/warlock fear, and a few stuns. Since then, however, EVERY class has at least 3 CCs of some sort or another, with some having up to 7 CC options (mages).

    Currently, it is possible to permanently shut down 1 person with good cooridination in 2s. Its possible to maintain 66% CC uptime on 2 targets in 3s. CC is out of control. By making a significantly larger amount of CCs share DR to the point that you only have a few categories, you can keep most of the CCs in the game, but arena play wont be all about locking down the opposing team as much as possible and bursting within that CC window.
    On the other hand, giving the trinket a much shorter CD will allow players to break out of the very common 20+ second CC chains much more frequently, while allowing players to keep a large number of CCs for all situations.
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  14. #14
    If it can break on damage, it shares a DR.

    If it can't break on damage, it shares a DR.

    Boom.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozone View Post
    You are wrong by stating this. Too many people want to make healers irrelevant until they need a healer themselves. The reason healing is so powerful is because of PvE the same reason damage is so high. Healers need to be able to heal through the massive about of damage bosses put out. Due to dps damage output that trickled into PvP, healers need to be able to heal through the insane burst of dps. People complain about making comps bad or a certain dps gets nerfed and everyone cries but who needs healers right? I'm ok with cc and even bringing down instant heals as long as damage output is severely reduced. How's that?
    I agree that burst needs to be reduced, too. If a solo DPS pops cooldowns a solo healer should have to pop cooldowns to keep himself or the target alive. One DPS should require one healer for any sustained damage. Currently two DPS on a target are nulled by a single healer and that's a problem.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by yogzula View Post
    I agree that burst needs to be reduced, too. If a solo DPS pops cooldowns a solo healer should have to pop cooldowns to keep himself or the target alive. One DPS should require one healer for any sustained damage. Currently two DPS on a target are nulled by a single healer and that's a problem.
    two dps aren't nulled by a single healer. The fact that double dps can kill a healer/dps proves that.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspellz View Post
    two dps aren't nulled by a single healer. The fact that double dps can kill a healer/dps proves that.
    Depends on the season and cooldowns. I'm talking cooldowns aside. I'd personally like to see a lot of burst cooldowns removed because there are far too many now and it balances PvP in a really poor way that revolves around killing people with burst CDs up meaning you get one window every few minutes.

  18. #18
    Field Marshal Mohyoto's Avatar
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    until I got the bright idea of having both of us stand on the freezing traps
    that is indeed a bright idea, maybe next time you should ask your warrior to intervene, stun, spell reflect every trap??

    No wonder why players like you always complain...l2p issue sorry

    OP dr should not be changed as it will reduce the amount of viable comps. Nevertheless, cc needs to be reduced for every class, and has to be in a form of a skill shot so that it is hard to land and feel rewarding when u do so, which will further separate good and bad players.

  19. #19
    Moves need to start getting deleted. CC classes need to have their burst monitored, and burst classes need to have their CC monitored, and no spec should do both of those things. Literally every class OP issue has been "class has lots of burst and CC" recently.

    Shared DR.... maybe. The thing is, I think that the CCs are mostly done badly. Hard cast CC should not be shortcutable- nature's swiftness -> cyclone, for instance, or pom -> poly. When these moves had big cooldowns and represented serious burst potential, they were only used for serious CC chains, and had cooldowns equal or greater than trinkets.

    Assume that you had a move, like gouge. The move has a 10 second cooldown, costs no resources. It stuns for 1.5 seconds, and doesn't DR with anything, not even itself. Now, how much MORE CC would a class like that have? Presumably it wouldn't even get a kick. This move would be totally unfair to just drop on to DKs as they stand... or ANYONE. But pretend that it was the only meaningful CC you got, or the others had both a cast time and broke on damage.

    The current system is unfair and confusing. It is wildly punishing to new players, and is frustrating in general because of how much reward comes in to making and breaking CC chains. The CCs themselves don't feel fun, they feel forced.

    We could use more CC like nerve strike- a move that guts an enemy's power output without entirely breaking him. Picture I had move that, for six seconds, prevented you from healing. But you could do all your other stuff. That move wouldn't need a huge cooldown if the rest of the game didn't feature "seven hit redizzy combo" like mage/priest can run in 2s (poly poly poly fear priestdisorient stun silence/root repeat).


    I think DR should be removed. Entirely. No such thing, or MAYBE you could leave it for poly/fear/cyclone, because that would allow these moves to keep their cooldownless nature- but those moves would likely need other things to address them.

    Now, in your DR less world, balance CC. You will probably not see 6 second aoe stuns, right?

  20. #20
    I'm fine with healers needing to cast more, but you need to remove a lot of interrupts and silences to make that reasonable. Healers only cast instant casts when possible because interrupts are so dang common. We can't every try to get people to waste them on our non-healing school of magic (example: priests had mind blast, mind spike to exclusively shadow and mind control is now a talent on a big cooldown).

    The current state of a rbg is that CC is so abundant that there is no feasible hope of doing anything if the opposing team decides that you are one of the initial CC targets. Stuns aren't even dispelable, and you can die in them. Personally, I'd like to see all CC break on damage.

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