Paying children to do well in school?

[Powerogue]

Doesn't even have to be money. My most effective years of schooling were:

Kindergarten - candy and small toy rewards. We even got to pick them out from the little box.
High School - You got out 30 minutes early if you had good grades, attendance, etc. It was difficult, but for that reward, I strived.

[Stir]

So... We should punish the stupid for being stupid?
The unfortunate for being in a position where their grades will be bad because of emotional problems?

Yeah.
Ehm...

Sorry. I believe it's more important to teach a child about unconditional love and compassion, rather than turning an innocent child into an exploitative, money-focussed goal-getter.

[Raphtheone]

Unsurprisingly, it works. Children get better grades when they receive immediate rewards.

It's not hard to imagine why, to paraphrase one of the article's words it is easier to just hand the kids money for getting good grades immmediately rather than expect their immatured minds to have the foresight to understand that they won't see any real payoff from doing well in school with a proper education until their mid to late twenties, and for many later than that considering student loans.

There are quite a few articles/studies that can be googled on the matter, it's not a new subject by any means but figured it to be interesting conversation starter.

I'm torn, it works but wouldn't that cause kids to get used to instant gratification and never learn the benefit and discipline of long-time planning and delayed rewards? Then again, the children were shown to have learned the material faster and more comprehensively when tested because they knew there would be an immediate reward.

For a kid, or teenager, a term is a really long time. I think you can achieve a great balance in giving money on the spot for A-grade test papers, and then at the end of the term add a bonus for the final grades in the subject. This allows both instant gratification as well as a long term payoff. I think it's important that you adjust expectations and awards depending on the subject (the kid, not the school subjects), long term/instant payoff might not be the same to a 14yo as to an adult.

I "only" got money for end-of-term grades, which didn't really motivate me (once a year payoff *woho* -_-). I think either switching over to the test grade system (which would actually motivate me to study to the tests, which I barely did), or a hybrid of the two.

[Aspect of Death]

Not sure it works, a friend of mine had this arrangement with her grandparents, and she is 25 years old and have not finished high school yet

[Raphtheone]

What exactly does this teach children?

That getting good grades is the only purpose of school, regardless of whether they actually learn anything? (I mean, that is the purpose of schooling, but we shouldn't encourage it!) Or that money is the only motivation by which a person will do something they otherwise wouldn't care to do?

Of course, both of these things play perfectly in-line with how the system currently works; Parents don't really care whether or not their children are actually learning anything in school, just so long as they bring home good grades on their report card. Then the parents can brag to the rest of the family and to their friends about how "smart" their child is.

And paying someone to get good grades? Why that's just giving the child a head start in the narrow mentality of thinking that obtaining money outweighs personal happiness and contentment in life. Don't like doing something? Just throw a little money at it, it'll get done. Nothing like a little bribery to get the child to see things your way!

Children who go through this type of relationship with school will grow up to be a strong, obedient workers of the capitalist empire. They will behave like a trained animal who knows how to perform tricks because it received a doggy treat every time it appeased it's master.

This is why schools exist. A system can only produce a system. It's up to the parents to decide whether they actively will work to have a child with an independent mind. There's a reason why children whose parents actively engage in their education have better grades than those with parents who believes the schools are supposed to handle that.

[Karetsaa]

I got that deal from my parents while I was in elementary school (and lasted until I was done with Junior High)
Did not affect my learning curve about short term rewards vs long term rewards. Before long I was just doing well in school and parents came up and said like "Okay you got an A so here's your 5mk (less than an Euro actually) and I would go like "Oh yea. I get something from good grades. Niiice"
I definitely recommend this for anyone. Especially you should try it if your kids seem to be struggling with grades or just nervous about exams and such.
I got the same litany as everyone else I think (Do good in school so you can get into better school and you can go well into more schools.) Actually did NOT sound vaguely tempting as a 9 year old
I think the trick is to quit it in time. Like mine stopped when I went to Trade School to become electrician at the age of 16.

--Karetsaa

QUOTE=diddle
Unsurprisingly, it works. Children get better grades when they receive immediate rewards.

[Kathandira]

So... We should punish the stupid for being stupid?
The unfortunate for being in a position where their grades will be bad because of emotional problems?

Yeah.
Ehm...

Sorry. I believe it's more important to teach a child about unconditional love and compassion, rather than turning an innocent child into an exploitative, money-focussed goal-getter.

It all depends on what you want for your children and how you wish to achieve that goal.

Some have said, it does not have to be about money. The objective is to teach them to work towards a goal. That goal can be anything from money to a choice of vacation location. Of picking dinner meals for a set period of time, or whatever sort of creative goal you can think up.

[Karetsaa]

to Stir
And you sir slash madam should really read and think for yourself what was suggested and discussed here. This is mostly done with parent to child kind of deal. If your children is well your words stupid maybe you should not bring that up then? just let him tarter his way through picking his nose?
Maybe not.
Always a good idea to talk about it. Unconditional love and compassion. Yea good things but unfortunately that is not how the world works.
Unfortunately in the real world you just have to get money to buy yourself stuff like roof over your head, food, medical things, perhaps kids reward for doing good in school..?

[DEATHETERNAL]

While it may work, parents should be motivating their children with rewards for doing well and/or punishments for screwing around. The school system shouldn't have to. That it would work is more a testament to the quality of the children’s parents than anything else.

[Kathandira]

It all depends on what you want for your children and how you wish to achieve that goal.

Some have said, it does not have to be about money. The objective is to teach them to work towards a goal. That goal can be anything from money to a choice of vacation location. Of picking dinner meals for a set period of time, or whatever sort of creative goal you can think up.

"So... We should punish the stupid for being stupid?
The unfortunate for being in a position where their grades will be bad because of emotional problems?"

I don't think these are fair statements. A child who is not up to speed with his grade level can have various issues. Some health related, some mentally related or some family related. There are many reasons a child might not keep up with the rest of his peers. The parents job is to monitor this activity and do everything in their power to correct it.

- - - Updated - - -

While it may work, parents should be motivating their children with rewards for doing well and/or punishments for screwing around. The school system shouldn't have to. That it would work is more a testament to the quality of the children’s parents than anything else.

I think the aim was for the parents to be issuing these rewards.

[FourEyesMoniker]

The only real issue I have with the premise is fairness. My brother and I were just a year apart, but did vastly differently in school. I got As in pretty much everything. I only received one grade lower than a B in my entire career of elementary, middle school, high school, and college. My brother, on the other hand, didn't do as well in school. He was mostly Bs, with some Cs and rarely As.

Unless you are willing to vary the payouts based on the kid and his natural abilities, one kid would make a ton of money, and the other would be disappointed and disheartened, because no matter how hard he worked, he just isn't capable of doing that well in school. But, on the other side of that, if you pay one kid one amount, and the other significantly less for doing the same or even better...

I know I would have been really upset if my brother made $20 for every A and $5 per B, whereas I made $5 per A and -$5 for Bs, which would have probably have been what it would take for us to be even in money most of the time.

[plat0nic]

Creativity based schooling over incentive based imo. Scandinavia are moving towards eliminating grade based systems.

[Conspicuous Cultist]

nooooooooooo i was born too soon for this to become a thing

But really, in my experience the school fails to properly demonstrate the benefit of actually sticking to the good grades instead of coasting on Cs in special education where you get revised crap. Hell, I didn't even know about scholarships until halfway through my 12th grade and I was like, "WTF. Why didn't you show me this stuff sooner!?" If that were the case, I'd probably care and I'd be a guy talking that's getting a nice cushy early life coasting through college.

Instead, they resort to 'scare' tactics like, "Oooooh, you don't want to do my work? Can you say, "WOULD YOU LIKE FRIES WITH THAT!?" " Ha, jokes on you - we'd probably still be working at McDonalds anyway after we graduate. Or awfully vague things like, "You should learn to appreciate your school". From the point of view of a formerly disgruntled student, it all looked like we we're getting taught towards the test which a caveman could easily pass. (For reference, I'm not a math wizz. I don't know algebra all that much and I know basic division, addition, multiplication, subtraction and I still passed the EOC on math and got my diploma.)

But being conditioned for immediate reward may be a bad thing, but that's what we expect afterwards out of school anyway. Long gone are the days where you raid the seven seas and divvy up the loot in the form of %s amongst the crew left alone and now we have wage jobs - isn't that kind of immediate reward? I don't think that's so different from what's going on here. They show results for their work, and they get rewarded in kind instead of some vague reward that doesn't look so vague halfway through 12th grade.

[Conspicuous Cultist]

Actually in Scotland you get paid during college and uni if your household income is at a certain level (lower middle class I suspect).

I'm an American, we also have government assistance that varies based on background but even at the bottom of the totempole of poverty it only covers junior college. Not bad, really, but aiming for anything higher like a technical school or uni and you have to bring on debt or get a job and save up beforehand.

[drwelfare]

My parents had a system. You get a bad grade, thats a beating, you get a bad progress report or report card thats a beating and a couple of days without food.

I made sure to get good grades. Not that it mattered in the end.

[Kathandira]

My parents had a system. You get a bad grade, thats a beating, you get a bad progress report or report card thats a beating and a couple of days without food.

I made sure to get good grades. Not that it mattered in the end.

I dunno man, I mean i'm sure it is different case by case. But I can only assume that this does not teach you any good lessons about the working world. I'd figure some kids would grow up fearing their employer, that if they messed up or did a bad job, they would get beaten.

[Aspect of Death]

Actually in Scotland you get paid during college and uni if your household income is at a certain level (lower middle class I suspect).

Hmm i guess they have that on studentloans aswell, if you have 30 pts pr semester they convert 40% to scholarship? (no clue if that is the correct word for it). Not sure if everyone have this.

[OzoAndIndi]

Unsurprisingly, it works. Children get better grades when they receive immediate rewards.

It's not hard to imagine why, to paraphrase one of the article's words it is easier to just hand the kids money for getting good grades immmediately rather than expect their immature minds to have the foresight to understand that they won't see any real payoff from doing well in school with a proper education until their mid to late twenties, and for many later than that considering student loans.

There are quite a few articles/studies that can be googled on the matter, it's not a new subject by any means but figured it to be interesting conversation starter.

I'm torn, it works but wouldn't that cause kids to get used to instant gratification and never learn the benefit and discipline of long-time planning and delayed rewards? Then again, the children were shown to have learned the material faster and more comprehensively when tested because they knew there would be an immediate reward.

Immediate? Are people paying them more often than for good report cards now?

Honestly I don't really see an issue if people choose to reward them for doing well in school. Think about it... its' the way the world works. If anything, it may teach them that a good work ethic is rewarding. Just like when they are older and have a job.

[drwelfare]

I dunno man, I mean i'm sure it is different case by case. But I can only assume that this does not teach you any good lessons about the working world. I'd figure some kids would grow up fearing their employer, that if they messed up or did a bad job, they would get beaten.

You mess up or do a bad job you end up with no job and after awhile no prospects, you become that guy everyone knows not to hire.
I have seen people do a job so bad that they should be beaten.

[Cirque]

Unsurprisingly, it works. Children get better grades when they receive immediate rewards.

It's not hard to imagine why, to paraphrase one of the article's words it is easier to just hand the kids money for getting good grades immmediately rather than expect their immature minds to have the foresight to understand that they won't see any real payoff from doing well in school with a proper education until their mid to late twenties, and for many later than that considering student loans.

There are quite a few articles/studies that can be googled on the matter, it's not a new subject by any means but figured it to be interesting conversation starter.

I'm torn, it works but wouldn't that cause kids to get used to instant gratification and never learn the benefit and discipline of long-time planning and delayed rewards? Then again, the children were shown to have learned the material faster and more comprehensively when tested because they knew there would be an immediate reward.

But this is for everything and anything. Immediate reward will always stimulate that behaviour, doesn't matter if it's money for schoolwork or candy for cleaning up your room.

I don't see what's wrong with it, definitely a whole lot better than the old "perform well or else /gets whip" treatment. It's the same for animal training, it all has shifted to reward rather than punishment.

And it's also nothing new. 20 years ago my granddad would give me what would be a couple of dollars if I had a good school report (every half a year) so I could get some sweets. /shrug When I read those old children books, written in the early previous century, same shit.

Also, how can you teach a 9 year old the benefit of long term planning when they have no sense of time? Like for them one year is an eternity, try to explain to them that working hard now will benefit them in 20 years. That's like telling them "when you're old and gray". They won't see the meaning of it, nor understand why. Even older kids have trouble with that, I'm talking 16 year old, too preoccupied with the NOW rather than some distant vague future. I mean every parent will try to make their kids understand this (mine certainly tried, and I remember distinctively that this whole "future" thing was about as mysterious as anti-matter).

Everything on its time. Teach children first how to work efficiently and how this can be rewarding before expecting them to think long-term.