Has Blizzard entered such a saturated market before?

[BenBos]

I have been watching the streams but the general pace of the combat is better than dota 2 and LoL.

It is better to follow too. Objectively viewed LOL combat's speed is the worst of the 3. Much too fast to have decent control. Dota2 is close to HotS. What surprised me though is that Diablo 3 wasn't used as an engine.

Curiously D3 in patch 2.1 has a tad bit slower combat/damage compared to its launch.

I don't like the burst damage and apparently Blizzard is going away from that too.

As for polish. Incredible. Even now HOTS beats both other Dota games with ease. And this is alfa ? WTF !

Discussion is already over after one day.

The only thing we'll see in these forums is die hard LoL fans in pure panic mode. I remember the Magic fans too at the start of Hearthstone. That didn't take long though. And I consider HotS far better in the traditional stable of Blizzard quality than Hearthstone.

[Deleted]

I have been watching the streams but the general pace of the combat is better than dota 2 and LoL.

It is better to follow too. Objectively viewed LOL combat's speed is the worst of the 3. Much too fast to have decent control. Dota2 is close to HotS. What surprised me though is that Diablo 3 wasn't used as an engine.

Curiously D3 in patch 2.1 has a tad bit slower combat/damage compared to its launch.

I don't like the burst damage and apparently Blizzard is going away from that too.

As for polish. Incredible. Even now HOTS beats both other Dota games with ease. And this is alfa ? WTF !

Discussion is already over after one day.

The only thing we'll see in these forums is die hard LoL fans in pure panic mode. I remember the Magic fans too at the start of Hearthstone. That didn't take long though. And I consider HotS far better in the traditional stable of Blizzard quality than Hearthstone.

And on the other side we have the delusional blizzard fans who would buy a turd from them if they released one.

No one who is competitive will play this game, it will be a place for people who are either too slow thinking, or too afraid of being pointed out as the reason your team lost. Enjoy a slow paced game with a low skillcap.

[Valeron]

Other than the IP what differentiates this game from all of the other MOBAs? To me they all look pretty much the same with the exception of Smite.

[Fencers]

Other than the IP what differentiates this game from all of the other MOBAs? To me they all look pretty much the same with the exception of Smite.

It's really different.

Unlike League or DOTA, in HOTS the maps change a lot. Each one has different objectives such that which map you play is more akin to the older Warcraft 3 objective orientated maps. For example, there are maps which are like above and below ground.

There is no gold, or items. You level and progress a hero through a talent point system. Last hitting is non existent, xp is team shared. You mount to move across the play field- which completely changes the fundamental mechanisms of AOS/DOTA laning.

The game is super fast paced with more emphasis on direct hero vs. hero contact. Games are very short- maybe 20 mins tops?

To a degree HOTS is less team oriatated than League/DOTA. There seems to be more room for individual plays/turnaround rather than hard snowballing due to individual failure as in League/DOTA.

Pay structure, play logic and pay model are different from other popular MOBAs as well. It's more like Hearthstone really.

[Valeron]

hmm, might give it a shot. Not really a MOBA fan, have tried LoL quite a few times but never got into. But then I've played Smite and really liked it. Maybe this game will stick with me.

[Fencers]

hmm, might give it a shot. Not really a MOBA fan, have tried LoL quite a few times but never got into. But then I've played Smite and really liked it. Maybe this game will stick with me.

Depends on what you dislike about other DOTA/MOBA styled games.

If you dislike the heavy team reliance of League/DOTA than HOTS is more forgiving. However, if your issues with League/DOTA are method of control input or view perspective (top down essentially) than HOTS is pretty much the same as those other MOBAs.

HOTS shares the view angle, control schema and linear hero progression in a limited match-based playfield of other DOTA/MOBA styled games. Everything else is like really different. It's a slimmer, less complex game than either League or DOTA but has more direct action as in Smite and Awesomenuats.

[May90]

I don't think Heroes of the Storm is going to catch much wind though. Having played the game for a bit... the game-types and maps aren't viable for eSports. There is too much random bullshit going on on the maps, and it strays away too far from certain MOBA conventions on some of the maps just to deliver a kiddyish type gameplay.

All of this can be said about Hearthstone (just replace "MOBA" with "CCG") - and, yet, in terms of viability for eSports the game surprised even developers. You bet that with millions of WoW/Diablo/Starcraft players trying the game there will be a player base large enough to bring the game somewhere near, at least, SC2 on the eSports scene.

[Charge me Doctor]

It's first moba where i've seen decent swing animations. Seeing a hero starting swing while approaching enemy is awesome

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Well they'll have their work cut out for them. Some design decisions just don't seem very smart or very in touch with the MOBA scene. Like no item-buying which completely defeats build elements and versatility, their reasoning is along the lines of WoW's talent respec. "People will buy the wrong items and won't be as strong as they should be and will get harassed over it." Which just shows how wrong their decision in that regard for WoW was too...

Honestly, i've already seen similar "talent system" in Russian-made moba "prime world", if it wouldn't have frustrating system with "rest" on heroes and LOTS of micro transactions and build-in farmvile and better balanced around certain features it would be decent moba.
The only thing i like in this game was talent system, you "craft" talents on "farmvile" (this part is horrible), then apply them on your hero. In game then, you buy your hero skills for experience (called prime), for example, 1st tier of talents, common quality, will give you +5 str, epic quality will give you +20str for same cost of ~300 "experience".
Now i don't know how it is relevant to hots, but anyways, from what i've seen (and implying that blizz is going to increase amount of talents) we will have a lot of ways to customize our heroes to the point of two same heroes being very different. Also you can "prepare" your her to two different "builds" that you can pick when in game

[BenBos]

And on the other side we have the delusional blizzard fans who would buy a turd from them if they released one.

No one who is competitive will play this game, it will be a place for people who are either too slow thinking, or too afraid of being pointed out as the reason your team lost. Enjoy a slow paced game with a low skillcap.

Your post is the perfect illustration of what I stated: you'll see full panic mode reactions of older DOTA pleyers who are afraid HOTS will conquer the market segment.

Shrug. Replace DOTA with CCG and HOTS with Hearthstone and you'll see where this will lead to.

A Blizzard game is Always being played MASSIVELY. Whether you like that or not: get real.

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I don't think Heroes of the Storm is going to catch much wind though. Having played the game for a bit... the game-types and maps aren't viable for eSports. There is too much random bullshit going on on the maps, and it strays away too far from certain MOBA conventions on some of the maps just to deliver a kiddyish type gameplay.

If anything Heroes of the Storm makes people want to go play LoL or DotA2 as it is at the moment.

With hardly 1000 alfa players on line at the moment (saw the comments on Twitch from active invited players) I doubt very much you played it in the current state.

You have to be a big streamer or journalist to be invited. And according to YOUR recent hate posts around WOW and other Blizzard games, I doubt very much you will be invited soon too.

So shrug. I don't see ANY valid points from a dude promoting the next WOW killer in every post he makes as something worthwhile. On the contrary.

What people like you don't seem to realise that your posts on a forum have absolutely ZERO influence on the success of a game, no matter what you type. I repeat ... ZERO.

Forums are for reflections, they have the impact of an ant in the solar system.

I hope you realise that.

[BenBos]

A Journalist Card sure is a handy thing, isn't it?
Everyone at my work can have access if they request it...

Also... I never wrote anything about WoW-killers, anywhere. It's idiotic to think that the McDonalds of MMOs is ever going to shut down.

Don't even try to be smart. Set up a Twitch stream and give us your account name and w"ll see if you can play HOTS.

ZERO chance you are in. As for promoting the next ESO, your history posts were all over the place in ... the official WOW forums over here.

Promoting it would be the next big thing that would crumble WOW subs. But I don't want to derail the thread by citing them.

Just to say that the credibility and statements coming from people calling the usual very laughable "Mac Donalds" arguments of 0 significance. People like you do not even realise WOW is probably the most expensive subscription based MMO to play now that every competitor turned free to play ... Calling out those DATED "cheap" MacD arguments is proof you didn't even evolve in WOW hate.

We get it.


On topic: people who can't stand that any new Blizzard game is being played massively should get back to reality.

There is absolutely ZERO chance HOTS will not be played massively. Blizzard quality and free to play? Shrug: even Diablo 3 sold officialy 15 million copies in a mere 19 months. And that is a product with a box price tag.

[Charge me Doctor]

There is absolutely ZERO chance HOTS will not be played massively. Blizzard quality and free to play? Shrug: even Diablo 3 sold officialy 15 million copies in a mere 19 months. And that is a product with a box price tag.

I agree on this, seeing that Blizzard makes very good looking and working (aka optimization) games, and their "hype team" works really well, we will see a lot of people playing HotS.

[Kaynot]

People who actively play LoL or Dota 2 wont switch over to HotS.LoL-players have already invested too much in skins/heroes etc and Dota fans hate almost all aspects of HotS with their guts.
Sure HotS-maps are fun overall,but pay2play heroes,absolute lack of gameplay-items and therefore proper hero customization, lack of proper fight control mechanics like global silence,stuns etc etc just kills any interest in HotS for me as Dota-player and im sure majority of dota2-players will agree with me.And on top of that the aestethics in HotS are horrific,Diablo or space marine on a horse? No,thanks.it serves the "fun"-purpose but at the same time it takes a big dump on established Blizzard-franchises and lore characters.It destroys the immersion and appeal of HotS for me.
The game would be more interesting if it took itself more seriously and offered more unique options than just custom modes.
And before you try to argue with "its a Blizzard"-game logic,dont forget that Dota 2 is a Valve-game.And Valve plays in the same league as Blizzard.

[May90]

Well they'll have their work cut out for them. Some design decisions just don't seem very smart or very in touch with the MOBA scene. Like no item-buying which completely defeats build elements and versatility, their reasoning is along the lines of WoW's talent respec. "People will buy the wrong items and won't be as strong as they should be and will get harassed over it." Which just shows how wrong their decision in that regard for WoW was too...

I believe Blizzard developers, with its over 20 years of experience in selling gaming hits, know what decisions are effective to make the game popular and competitive.
Also, the reasoning behind removing items system is not that "they will buy the wrong items", but that "they follow one of the few perfected builds anyway, so let's remove this obsolete system". Also, they wanted to prevent snowballing that takes place in current MOBA games: Ashe gets 3 kills early on, gets a lot of money, buys stronger items, gets even more kills by having become stronger than anyone else, buys even better items, and so on - and the whole game becomes one hero dominating everything and everyone. Personally, I support their idea, because item system is one of the things that always pulled me off MOBA games. By the end, especially in such slow-damage MOBA as the original DotA, it is usually 2-3 heroes really battling and all others feeding them - not on a professional level, but on amateur level it is usually so.

[May90]

I'm sure lots of people will play it. But it'll have a hard time attracting the LoL crowd, and even a worse time trying to attract the Dota2 crowd. It's a super simplified and super-casual MOBA. It's just a low quality MOBA in content and gameplay with a high quality polish.

Oh yeah. I remember, back in 2002, when the original DotA custom map came out, a lot of people hated it with passion and cried on forums: "DotA is a super casual game. You control only one hero. No macro, no micro. OMG. The stupidest map ever.". Your comments kind of remind me of that.

A game played by millions (and this game WILL be played by millions, trust me) cannot be called "casual". Among billions there will always be top-100 or so which you will never beat, until you are one of them, although on low level it can be casual - but then on low level every game is casual.

[Charge me Doctor]

I'm sure lots of people will play it. But it'll have a hard time attracting the LoL crowd, and even a worse time trying to attract the Dota2 crowd. It's a super simplified and super-casual MOBA. It's just a low quality MOBA in content and gameplay with a high quality polish.

I hope that toxic lol community won't play it. Honestly. I don't want to hear "omg report kerrigan for getting dragon knight instead of pushing and letting muradin take it she has ultralisk ffs why she wastes everything"

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Oh yeah. I remember, back in 2002, when the original DotA custom map came out, a lot of people hated it with passion and cried on forums: "DotA is a super casual game. You control only one hero. No macro, no micro. OMG. The stupidest map ever.". Your comments kind of remind me of that.

Huh, I remember when players who played only dota started trying wc3 and yelled how orcish permastun was OPed and there was no way to stop BM from stealing creep gold/items from your hero, durrr.

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People who actively play LoL or Dota 2 wont switch over to HotS.LoL-players have already invested too much in skins/heroes etc and Dota fans hate almost all aspects of HotS with their guts.
Sure HotS-maps are fun overall,but pay2play heroes,absolute lack of gameplay-items and therefore proper hero customization, lack of proper fight control mechanics like global silence,stuns etc etc just kills any interest in HotS for me as Dota-player and im sure majority of dota2-players will agree with me.And on top of that the aestethics in HotS are horrific,Diablo or space marine on a horse? No,thanks.it serves the "fun"-purpose but at the same time it takes a big dump on established Blizzard-franchises and lore characters.It destroys the immersion and appeal of HotS for me.
The game would be more interesting if it took itself more seriously and offered more unique options than just custom modes.
And before you try to argue with "its a Blizzard"-game logic,dont forget that Dota 2 is a Valve-game.And Valve plays in the same league as Blizzard.

1st bold part: nope, i know a lot of people from dota/dota2 who would love to try out hots. And i'm sure that your statement is wrong.
2nd bold part: wrong again, hero customization realized via talents, i doubt that number of available talents will remain the same, so will have more and more talents as the game develops
3rd bold part: I'm pretty sure that they don't want to spend time to make different mounts for different champions. Look at siege tank, or Falstard, they don't ride horse, i'm pretty sure that this thing will be addressed (but i guess you complained about "i'm girl" addition to name of pandarens in Mists beta)
4th bold part: just remind you that TF2 is Valve game too, this game is so serious, i can't even hold all these seriousness in my hands!

[May90]

I hope that toxic lol community won't play it. Honestly. I don't want to hear "omg report kerrigan for getting dragon knight instead of pushing and letting muradin take it she has ultralisk ffs why she wastes everything"

I don't think the community in HotS will be that much different - after all, WoW's community (which will contribute a lot of players to HotS) is arguably the second most toxic community after LoL's. I do hope, however, that most people will think of this game like just a way to have fun from time to time, like Hearthstone, or like Starcraft 2 / Warcraft 3 custom maps, and all these kids crying because of having lost a ladder game will stay in LoL and DotA 2. There certainly will be some ladder system, it is inevitable in Blizzard's competitive games, but I do hope they offer also unranked and custom modes - I will then play only them, just like in Starcraft 2 I currently play only arcade maps and custom unranked games. Pretty much, in every game ladder is not fun, but a bunch of "pros" who don't care about anything other than winning, and, if they fail at this, they start raging, reporting you, insulting you after the game is over and such.

"NUB you feed 'em GTFO retard" - I hope I won't see it much in HotS. One of the strongest points of Hearthstone as a game for me was that they removed chat from the game, so all a raging kid can do is spawn emotes. They won't do it here, of course, but I hope they will take some steps to reduce toxicity of the player base.

[cudomix]

^^Two words: Map Editor.

[Charge me Doctor]

"They used to say <argument> about <popular game> back then too!" (Even if barely anyone did).


HotS is going to be a super-toxic game. You got the biggest and most invested playerbase in the world to compete with, LoL, and they'll flood any HotS forum with complaints and disapproval like crazy... especially because the game is so different. HotS is going to be massively negatively received in the press, on forums and website comments, and in reviews because of this too.

Blizzard is... fucking up by trying to expand their game library across so many diverse genres, and they're going to burn their hands with HotS -because- of the huge LoL fanbase.

Doubt it, from what i've heard from Husky, Totalbiscuit, Destiny and Crendor, they had very positive feelings about the game. Just google videos of reviwers playing it, i haven't found anyone complaining about this game. Well, except matchmaking.

Whine on forums? How is it going to affect anyone? Damn it! Negative responds in comment section, the game is ruined

And hots being toxic, i really hope it won't, because, from what i've seen, there is not that much things to complain about

[May90]

"They used to say <argument> about <popular game> back then too!" (Even if barely anyone did).


HotS is going to be a super-toxic game. You got the biggest and most invested playerbase in the world to compete with, LoL, and they'll flood any HotS forum with complaints and disapproval like crazy... especially because the game is so different. HotS is going to be massively negatively received in the press, on forums and website comments, and in reviews because of this too.

Blizzard is... fucking up by trying to expand their game library across so many diverse genres, and they're going to burn their hands with HotS -because- of the huge LoL fanbase.

Doomsayers are quite common in the gaming world. As well as fanboys. Both usually end up wrong when it comes to predictions. Sometimes it is people having an orgasm about how SWTOR is going to destroy all other MMOs in the world. Other times it is people predicting that Hearthstone is going to be Blizzard's biggest failure in history. But, as you have probably noticed yourself, such biased dreams never come true. And your predictions about negative HotS reception will look pretty silly in just a few months.

[May90]

You really think that the absolutely massive LoL + DotA fanbase combined isn't going to try and besmirch HotS everywhere they can?

They may say whatever they want upon the HotS release, only millions of players will put them to shame, and they will return to their toxic communities, only adding to their already quite bad reputation.