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  1. #41
    The only time I've ever used CC in heroics in MoP was on the Gekkan encounter (Moshu Palace) my first few times there.

    As a group, the MoP 5's are the easiest heroics ever put in the game, it's not even a contest.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  2. #42
    Herald of the Titans Lovestar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    And you illustrate perfectly what Tziva was saying in the post above yours.
    That logic works for organized groups of experienced people who are seeing it only through their eyes. This applies to the "CATA HEROICS WERE EASY" argument. (They weren't, but they were quite doable with sensible players... which LFD doens't provide consistently)

    It's a different story if people are experiencing constant successful LFD clears with zero CC, because that's a random sampling and will wash out any individual's skill or lack thereof. Unless some of us are just remarkably more fortunate about our LFD groups, I'm inclined to think it's a trustworthy suggestion that nearly anyone could clear a MoP Heroic via AoE spam.

  3. #43
    Even if it is the case that mop dungeons were designed with having to use cc's at release, tuning the game based on the worst of the worst players is a bad idea. Because you're ruining the experience of the ppl that actually know how to play and can just steamroll the content. It's a player issue, and they need to learn how to deal with the already easy mechanics.

  4. #44
    CC was really unneeded for a huge part of MoP, barring certain odd trash packs in raids and certain boss encounters.

    In dungeons? Definitely unneeded. But that's not to say it wouldn't be easier on the tank and healer to CC adds. Not that I have ever seen anyone in LFD use a single CC, only CMs really.
    To be human is to possess superior intelligence to other species, yet channel that otherwise-wondrous potential into the most degenerate of endeavors rather than benefiting the world.

  5. #45
    I'm sure tons of people have used CC on the Gekkan encounter like already said, and I'd find it hard to believe that someone has never seen anyone do it, and I've seen TONS of DK's use their control dead or whatever in Scholo, so he's technically correct.
    My shaman I guess if you want to see it or something.
    "It’s not what you have, or what you can do. Just being born, living your life… before you know it, you’re already special to someone."

  6. #46
    Mechagnome Edoran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    Last time I checked you still have to CC the raid trash before Garrosh on LFR, never mind normal. Same with the raid trash before Nazgrim. It's impossible, 100% impossible to nuke down the shamans as a group. They have to be controlled and killed one by one. And that's just SoO. I can remember back to tons of CC-required trash packs in Cata and Wrath.
    This discussion is about dungeons, not raids. And even then, I've seen plenty of LFR groups zerg the Garrosh trash. Regardless of your whopping two examples here, it's a totally different ballgame than it was pre-Wrath, for better or worse. Obviously Blizzard think it's for the better.

  7. #47
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edoran View Post
    This discussion is about dungeons, not raids. And even then, I've seen plenty of LFR groups zerg the Garrosh trash. Regardless of your whopping two examples here, it's a totally different ballgame than it was pre-Wrath, for better or worse. Obviously Blizzard think it's for the better.
    His words were " Even raids you don't CC trash.". I was refuting his incorrect notion.



  8. #48
    Pandaren Monk Hinalover's Avatar
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    Now-a-days sure you can brute force your way through the dungeons in MoP, but when MoP was first out; particularly the first few weeks of the expansion, there were several instances where CC was desirable. Shado-Pan Monestary comes to mind; especially the 2 packs before the bridge that takes place after the second boss, as well as leading to the last boss; but before people realized about skipping one or two of the packs. You had to CC a few of the mobs. Even a few mobs in Scarlet Monastery required SOME CC at the start of the expansion (particularly in the monastery itself).

    So saying you brute forced these mobs with no difficulties means either a) you were grouped with equally skilled people or b) your BSing.

  9. #49
    Brewmaster Warlord Booty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krazzorx View Post
    Ya that's how our guild's healers recommend learning how to heal.
    That's how I learned on my druid. Wintersgrasp. Huge grid of people going in and out, no idea who is about to get lit up. Really fun. It made raids feel.... very lackluster in comparison.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by LTCrystallite View Post
    the title just screams "TAKING THIS OUT OF CONTEXT"

    He's just saying that using CC in dungeons eventually becomes obsolete because you get better gear and patches come out. Dungeons are the bottom of the barrel PvE content. They are literally Expansion launched content.

    He's not stating if the game needed more or less, he's not saying "confirmed, implementing in the future", yet somehow partisan politics tactics are still being used by twisting his statement, it's funny.
    Untrue. he clearly tells one of the twits that he was "more skilled and that no cc wasn't the experience for most".

    My argument is that i've not seen or used CC across 6 90s from beginning to end of MOP. he's overstating the difficulty of MOP which gives me reason for pause. If MOP was average to difficult in his opinion for the majority what are we in for in WOD

  11. #51
    I really hope that since they're bringing back max-level normal mode 5-man dungeons in WoD that heroic modes will offer at least a bit of a challenge or be less faceroll. Not saying make them BC level or some of the cata ones like Stonecore but I think somewhere between some of the early cata heroics and the wrath heroics would be a good place. I realize that they simply can't be anywhere near cutting edge difficulty because of the randomness of LFD but does that really mean that they have to be completely mind-numbing to cater to the very lowest common denominator? Luckily I believe they said at Blizzcon that this would be the case. (heroics will be a bit higher in difficulty, though not extremely so and the normal mode max level dungeons can help smooth that over for those that don't want the challenge)

  12. #52
    Brewmaster Warlord Booty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vvulf View Post
    Although I guess it was possible to complete without using CC, you would have been an idiot for NOT using it when Zul'Aman was new in Cata.
    Oh, I agree. Countless times I would CC to have it instantly broken. Though, early on I was mostly shadow priest and MC was so much fun.

  13. #53
    Mechagnome Edoran's Avatar
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    In any case, most of the people defending Celestalon's comments are really splitting hairs. He more or less said people just aren't using CC now because they've outgeared those dungeons for some time now. Of course that's true, but regardless of the onesies and twosies examples people have given in this thread, if you think CC was used by the "majority" of the population for MoP dungeons (what the tweet was actually about), I'm not sure I've been playing the same game as you.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    Your experience is not everyone's experience. Just because you managed to brute-force your way through every dungeon trash pack & boss doesn't mean the rest of WoW did.
    Maybe stop repeating what blizzard says/licking blizz A$$,dungeons were easy u really didnt have to do any CC , you could prob 2-3 man them THATS how easy they were.

  15. #55
    Herald of the Titans Lovestar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hinalover View Post
    So saying you brute forced these mobs with no difficulties means either a) you were grouped with equally skilled people or b) your BSing.
    I gave up CC'ing within hours, when every tank/group would instantly break it on pull. Nobody wiped. This includes stupid Glintrock, who I constantly tried to lock down adds on only to watch the tank deliberately break it every time just to show off.

    Again, the only time I ever saw brute force "fail" in MoP LFD was when an overconfident tank pulled way too much and got blown up. That wasn't a CC issue, it was a tank-being-dumb issue. Either I have incredibly good LFD luck, or you were very unfortunate, or Blizz is secretly serving up two different sets of instances just to be cheeky.

  16. #56
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by n0ideabr0 View Post
    Maybe stop repeating what blizzard says/licking blizz A$$,dungeons were easy u really didnt have to do any CC , you could prob 2-3 man them THATS how easy they were.
    Of course they are to someone as amazingly talented and awesome as you. From now on I will live your example and two man all content.



  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord Booty View Post
    Nothing in this game has EVER "NEEDED" CC, but it sure as hell made things a shit load easier. Less deaths, less wipes etc.
    if you ran vanilla dungeons during vanilla, and tbc heroics you needed cc especially with certain group composition. besides being easier and more strategic it was imo needed. Some pulls before you were geared were like impossible.

  18. #58
    Ya pretty obviously disconnected from how the game worked / does work.

    MoP Required no CC because there were 0 mobs that did anything besides damage to the tank.
    In BC that worked because tanking required many globals to get all the mobs, but now trash has to actually damage the group to suggest CC as an option.

    I did Heroic 5 mans the day the game came out, with pugs and with guild. At no point did anyone feel CC was a necessary part of the dungeon for any reason, especially because of how AOE tanking works now.

    Hopefully with WoD we will see dungeons that punish lazy DPS and make them actually want to CC.
    I have a feeling though, with the invent of Dungeon finder and how 5 mans have been, this will not happen.

    Not the end of the world though, but solid 5 man progression would really make me fall in love all over again.
    If Celestalon is so out of the loop that he is making comments like this, I think we all know it wont be happening.

  19. #59
    Mechagnome Edoran's Avatar
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    Besides CC, anyone remember HAVING to LoS some pulls back in BC? That seems to be COMPLETELY gone.

  20. #60
    Pandaren Monk Hinalover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovestar View Post
    I gave up CC'ing within hours, when every tank/group would instantly break it on pull. Nobody wiped. This includes stupid Glintrock, who I constantly tried to lock down adds on only to watch the tank deliberately break it every time just to show off.

    Again, the only time I ever saw brute force "fail" in MoP LFD was when an overconfident tank pulled way too much and got blown up. That wasn't a CC issue, it was a tank-being-dumb issue. Either I have incredibly good LFD luck, or you were very unfortunate, or Blizz is secretly serving up two different sets of instances just to be cheeky.
    I actually Recruit-a-Friend my Monk to 80.99% and power leveled to 90 by that Thursday night. I Brewmaster Tanked MoP dungeons (having experience Guardian Druid tanking before that). And the one spot that ALWAYS got me were the packs before the Bridge in Shado-Pan Monestary. They hit like a freaken truck in greens and blues. It probably didn't help they do magic damage and I was still getting used to Brewmaster tanking and dealing with magic damage at the time. But a month or so later after the expansion, Blizzard did nerf those packs so that they were not hitting as hard. But still that first few weeks, it was desired that some CC (whether it was chains of Ice, Paralisis, or whatever) on those two pack, or a Healer external cooldown on the tank was desired.

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