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  1. #141
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    Your experience is not everyone's experience. Just because you managed to brute-force your way through every dungeon trash pack & boss doesn't mean the rest of WoW did.
    Outside of Challenge modes, CC was never required. Even in LFD random groups with greens/blues.
    Anyone who says otherwise either remembers incorrectly or CC'd because he was used to it from Cata.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    "You are more experienced than most" "It was not the experience of the majority" - why am I not surprised that to people here it translates to "A member of the WoW team tells me about something where they have factual data - they must be lying, because me and my buddies have a different experience" oh..I forgot to add "LOL"
    Blizzard often bullshits and twists their "data" when it suits them. I can still remember at the start of MoP being told constantly "Ret is performing well in our internal tests" whilst players were not seeing the results, and then getting a 15% damage boost next patch.

  3. #143
    Herald of the Titans Vintersol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karenai View Post
    And everyone and their sister don't need to interrupt.
    Fixed that for you!

  4. #144
    I'm not really sure why people want to force hard CC back into dungeons. Whether or not party will kill a group of mob is mainly if 'dps of enemies on tank/party' > 'healer hps'. If you can dive into group of mobs without using anything but basic tanking tools and normal healing, there is no need for cc. What if enemies actually do outdo what healer can do? You start trying to decrease damage mobs can do, which includes:
    Interrups, soft cc (stun/disorients), focusing dangerous mob, popping dps cd to kill it quickly, popping healer cd to increase healing, popping tank cd to decrease damage, kiting, off tanking via pet, los, hard cc.
    Every way of dealing with hard mobs is active combat and require a bit of skill to do it properly, especially if rotated through multiple people. Every, except hard ccs pre pull. 4 mobs dealing too much damage? Np. sheep one, sap second, kill one pair, kill second pair. Skill and fun...
    Challenge modes is closest we have to TBC level heroics and I personally find them 'fun' because they require proper control over groups of enemies and planned use of various cds while taking risky pulls. All of that because of timer that prevents hard cc if you are going for gold. If you remove timer, people would just cc half packs each time, this is dull and slow. Prepull cc are boring and hardly require any skill, this is coming from banish/seduce/fearing lock in MrT hc back in BC, when using cc pulled pack. Or rather - fun during first 2 clears, then tedious.

    I wish Blizz brings trash in dungeons closer to what they did CMs. Got good coordinated group of people? Blitz through aoe with control and planning. Got pug/not so good players? Let them hard cc stuff before and kill groups slower, but easier. Way better than BC style which iirc (so long ago...) was 'each of this 2 mobs can two shot tank so you have to cc one or get globalled' style of cheap.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    They can't even track a lot of achievement criteria retroactively. Not a chance they know about CC legitimately.
    Hehehe I know =] I'm sure they are afraid to change it and slightly annoy a small percentage of people.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nivrax View Post
    I wish Blizz brings trash in dungeons closer to what they did CMs. Got good coordinated group of people? Blitz through aoe with control and planning. Got pug/not so good players? Let them hard cc stuff before and kill groups slower, but easier. Way better than BC style which iirc (so long ago...) was 'each of this 2 mobs can two shot tank so you have to cc one or get globalled' style of cheap.
    If that were the case, wouldn't tanks have been 2 shotted anyway lol? Even if you kill/cc the others?

  6. #146

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    If that were the case, wouldn't tanks have been 2 shotted anyway lol? Even if you kill/cc the others?
    Two shot not one shot, but maybe bit overblown. One of few memories I have from this time was Sethekk Halls twin guards before each room. Hit like trucks, root one, kill other, first enrage and you better mash that heal button or tank goes splat.

  8. #148
    I don't get why his personal opinions matter exactly.

    Remember that GC was pretty openly anti heroic 10m yet that didn't effect their design decisions.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Krazzorx View Post
    I don't get why his personal opinions matter exactly.

    Remember that GC was pretty openly anti heroic 10m yet that didn't effect their design decisions.
    GC Likely had significant input into WoD, just sayin'
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    No one is saying its worthless. Again, this is about how necessary they were. They weren't necessary according to most here. But people want to actually need to use them.
    Actually for MoP heroics CC was worthless. You would get through the trash faster if you just facepulled for Vengence and AoE rather than actually stopping, CCing and being careful.

  11. #151
    To be fair the only packs that CC really helped were the guys before Taran Zhu in Shado-Pan Monastery. Those packs were pretty nasty when you were in 450 blues. Also Gekkan on Heroic (I think it was Gekkan? The Saurok boss in Mogu'shan Palace with the minions) needed CC to keep the Hexer and the Priest out of the way. It maybe helped on those heavy-hitting packs in Scarlet Monastery (Scarlet Myrmidon?)

    That's all I can recall, and of course this is about launch.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    To be fair the only packs that CC really helped were the guys before Taran Zhu in Shado-Pan Monastery. Those packs were pretty nasty when you were in 450 blues. Also Gekkan on Heroic (I think it was Gekkan? The Saurok boss in Mogu'shan Palace with the minions) needed CC to keep the Hexer and the Priest out of the way. It maybe helped on those heavy-hitting packs in Scarlet Monastery (Scarlet Myrmidon?)

    That's all I can recall, and of course this is about launch.
    If nothing else CC certainly made Gekkan faster.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  13. #153
    The Patient Sygil's Avatar
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    I remember using cc for Gekkan in Mogushan Palace...so yeah. Either all my groups sucked cause we couldn't brute force his adds when doing heroics for the first time, or Celestion's right.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Sygil View Post
    I remember using cc for Gekkan in Mogushan Palace...so yeah. Either all my groups sucked cause we couldn't brute force his adds when doing heroics for the first time, or Celestion's right.
    As I just mentioned above, you didn't cc because you'd die - you cc'd because it was faster than dealing with stun, damage reduction, heal and curse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Sygil View Post
    I remember using cc for Gekkan in Mogushan Palace...so yeah. Either all my groups sucked cause we couldn't brute force his adds when doing heroics for the first time, or Celestion's right.
    No, that still wouldn't make Celestion correct.

  16. #156
    The Unstoppable Force Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nivrax View Post
    Two shot not one shot, but maybe bit overblown. One of few memories I have from this time was Sethekk Halls twin guards before each room. Hit like trucks, root one, kill other, first enrage and you better mash that heal button or tank goes splat.
    And you better hope that tank can hold your heal aggro if you're both in crap gear.
    I had to 2 heal these mobs because after a few seconds, they thought me WAAY more sexy than that tank who tried to tear their armor off. :X

    I remember using cc for Gekkan in Mogushan Palace...so yeah.
    Interrupt aura guy & mark him as a priority target
    After that, kill the Healer.

    No CC was required.
    You can't properly CC these anyway, b/c he gives them a buff, making them immune to all cc after a few seconds.
    Last edited by Granyala; 2014-01-30 at 03:33 PM.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Lagmonster View Post
    Yeah that really sucked those first few weeks. Was hilarious how H. Pally could heal through the normal stupid, but any other healer was oom in like 20 seconds if shit went wrong. Good times
    And that's how the game should be. Exactly like that. The healer should be able to heal unavoidable damage, the tank, and cover up a few mistakes. But if more than one person repeatedly fucks up, the group should be under huge threat of a wipe. It was an incredibly fun period and felt like a period of progression all by itself. One of my best times in WoW. And even then, once healers got geared and got some more regen, a lot of those heroics slowly turned into more of a burn down fest. There really is no need for such a low difficulty of any dungeon.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkol View Post
    And that's how the game should be. Exactly like that. The healer should be able to heal unavoidable damage, the tank, and cover up a few mistakes. But if more than one person repeatedly fucks up, the group should be under huge threat of a wipe. It was an incredibly fun period and felt like a period of progression all by itself. One of my best times in WoW. And even then, once healers got geared and got some more regen, a lot of those heroics slowly turned into more of a burn down fest. There really is no need for such a low difficulty of any dungeon.
    I was more pointing out the huge gap between healers at the start of Cata. And the fact that some healers didn't even have enough mana/regen to heal when everything was going right, let alone wrong.(hello priest) While others (Hi H.Pally) could steam roll heal through just about anything like it was wrath all over again. By the time the nerfs/buffs went in, it didn't really matter anymore as everyone had some gear. To me the content wasn't even all that hard in 4.0, it just felt like the healer was the real limiter to the group. Which was why you seen such a healing exodus during that time. Because the healers were being blamed when groups failed. This was exacerbated by "lol my pally friend can heal this just fine". And to make a note, I was tanking on my pally during 4.0., not even being biased as some butt hurt healer from back then.

    My point I guess, is that I just hated 4.0 for that very reason, for the first few weeks. The blame could always be so easily passed off on "bad healers". Because the mechanics to punish the dps/tank for doing stupid shit most of the time wasn't very good. And the healing was terribly unbalanced. I imagine I would have had a nicer time those first few weeks if I hadn't been solo/duo queuing so much, and running exclusively with only guild mates.
    Last edited by Lagmonster; 2014-01-30 at 05:18 PM.

  19. #159
    The Lightbringer Lovestar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sygil View Post
    I remember using cc for Gekkan in Mogushan Palace...so yeah. Either all my groups sucked cause we couldn't brute force his adds when doing heroics for the first time, or Celestion's right.
    I was playing at release, and every time I tried to CC them, the tank would deliberately break it and drag them all into a pile.

    Was this smart? No, not really. But it was LFD. I just took them down in the correct order and kept interrupts applied. No real issues other than a small bit of wasted time.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Because he only ran THAT DAY right? Not in the whole week until raids opened up.
    A day, or a whole week, doesn't really move the needle here. You moved from the 0.01 percent to the 0.1 percent of people dedicated enough to play, what, 15 to 20 hours of content the week of launch? Maybe more, depending how quickly you can progress through things.

    Heck, I can't find a reliable source of stats, so being generous and assuming that ten percent of players are excited enough to hit 90 in the first week, you are still talking about a pretty select subset of folks. Who know what they are doing, because they have been here for the last 85 levels -- not the new players facing off at least a week or two to hit 85 and start MoP content.

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