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  1. #1

    Celestion thinks MoP needed CC, lol

    https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...95645359157249

    I never used CC once even at launch. i don't recall having to sheep, sting, MC, trap anything across 6 90s in MOP dungeons. What's he talking about. I'm not saying make WOD dungeons wtf impossible but he's making it sound as if MOP dungeons weren't at all faceroll.

    I understand dungeons aren't the be all and end all of content but make them more interesting. Faceroll isn't interesting. You'd think this lesson came across already.

    Any thoughts?

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Your experience is not everyone's experience. Just because you managed to brute-force your way through every dungeon trash pack & boss doesn't mean the rest of WoW did.



  3. #3
    Yes... here's a thought. Twitter is social media, and an outlet for personal opinion. Also, very easy to blow out of proportion or take outta context. I wish Twitter would follow MySpace and join AOL.

  4. #4
    Scarab Lord Raugnaut's Avatar
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    He may be talking about Challenge modes- when learning them, you had to CC a few mobs here and there.

    Otherwise, yea. Most MoP dungeons didn't really require any CC, or strategy for example.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    Your experience is not everyone's experience. Just because you managed to brute-force your way through every dungeon trash pack & boss doesn't mean the rest of WoW did.
    well i did and i dinged 90 after about 16 hours, everyone was at an all time gear low of quest greens/blues, everyone barely made the heroic ilvl requirements and we had zero wipes zero deaths, all of my groups we're 100% pugs i did not queue with anyone from my guild/server after about 5 hours i was nearly full 463.

    i cannot see how people needed CC celestalon looks to be a bit of a scrub, some easy faceroll 5mans incoming in WoD then (at least for me).

  6. #6
    Scarab Lord MasterOfKnees's Avatar
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    The dungeons are easier than ever in MoP, I really don't see what part of it couldn't be zerged down, even at launch. Heck, Wrath, which was a teeny tiny bit harder with its Heroic Dungeons, didn't even require CC either, neither did late Cataclysm.

    I understand that everyone has different experiences, but someone who can't zerg content this easy down probably can't CC properly either honestly.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfKnees View Post
    I understand that everyone has different experiences, but someone who can't zerg content this easy down probably can't CC properly either honestly.
    Unless, and this is a big leap of assumption on my part... unless eluding to CC means they are gonna start over tuning the WoD dungeons and make them less zerg/faceroll. Adding CC as they stand is just plain dumb. But, if he wants to add CC, maybe... and this is a big maybe... they are planning to tune dungeons back up for difficulty.

  8. #8
    I simply can't imagine anyone needing to use cc in MOP dungeons. Maybe if you wanted to at first and then realized "meh, just faceroll it". Celestion is starting to worry me to be honest.

  9. #9
    Scarab Lord UnifiedDivide's Avatar
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    Sigh...

    Why do you folks automatically think that everyone is an at least average player? There are some pretty awful players in the game.

    Just because YOU never had to use CC or were in a group that never had to, doesn't mean that is the same experience for everyone else.

    Celestalon also has data to back up what he says, whereas anyone on MMO-C has anecdotes.

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  10. #10
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    I don't disagree with him one bit.

    Anytime anyone says CC is advisable, there's always some guy who wants to scoff at the idea of using CC. It doesn't matter if we're talking about Heroic Magisters Terrace or a Utgard Keep, those people will always be the first to volunteer they never needed CC and therefore CC was unnecessary. Half the time it's people who forget what it was like to do heroics in greens and blues, other times it's people who don't realise their skill level is in the top percentages of the game's players (or they do and they just feel like boasting).

    While I wouldn't classify MoP heroics as hard, there were certainly places we used it when the entire group was fresh to 90. Shadopan Monestary was one place, especially with the sha dudes before the bridge and the big panda packs before the last boss. We also used CC in Mogushan Palace, and I'm sure a few other places, too. Was it absolutely necessary? Probably not if your group was good. Did it make things smoother early on? Absolutely. Would it be recommended to less skilled or experienced groups? Sure!

    I'm sure there were plenty of players out there who benefited from using CC in Mist dungeons.
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  11. #11
    I never used CC in MoP heroic dungeons and never had any wipes either. They are just so easy that a below avarage group can just zerg everything down without a problem. To claim that that these dungeons need some sort of CC and it would be easier for an avarage group is just pure nonsense.

  12. #12
    The Patient KonkeroaR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Sigh...

    Why do you folks automatically think that everyone is an at least average player? There are some pretty awful players in the game.
    Think of how bad the average WoW player is, and realize half of them are worse than that.

  13. #13
    Well let's think of any mop dungeon where you feel cc is needed, advisable, warranted. Going through them i still can't manage to find one pack that was omg cc? Maybe in the Scarlet runs?

    btw, i'm not even a heroic raider. I did heroic raiding in wotlk and quit when it became "omg wtf are you doing" directed towards players who helped you get to heroic LK. I saw then that it wasn't going to be fun anymore and stopped.

    I'm a normal raider who uses flex to gear and considers normal raids as progression. So i'm not a top player or heroic raider type.

    If dungeons get harder in WOD the below average player will benefit from us "above average" players teaching them how to do things. So why shouldn't we have a modicum of challenge in heroic dungeons?

    Keep in mind it's still very early and we havn't seen anything yet, lol.

  14. #14
    Herald of the Titans Aqua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    well i did and i dinged 90 after about 16 hours, everyone was at an all time gear low of quest greens/blues, everyone barely made the heroic ilvl requirements and we had zero wipes zero deaths, all of my groups we're 100% pugs i did not queue with anyone from my guild/server after about 5 hours i was nearly full 463.

    i cannot see how people needed CC celestalon looks to be a bit of a scrub, some easy faceroll 5mans incoming in WoD then (at least for me).
    You say scrub like they're not entitled to a challenge.

    The reason there was no problems pugging at that hour is because we all (mainly the hardcore) were rushing to endgame like our ass was on fire, all of us doing so were mainly competent. It was a slightly different experience days and even weeks later when my alts had to go through the same experience, there were morons running into stuff everywhere, and one decent player does not a successful pug make.

    There were cases where it was acceptable and agreeable to use CC since the avoidance strategies and overgearing hadn't come out yet for those who's end game this basically is. And using CC to save idiocy is an acceptable strat. Hell during a MoP dungeon I actually taught a mage how to sheep. I TAUGHT A MAGE THEIR MOST BASIC CC TECHNIQUE. That's not the fault of the dungeons that's the game's fault altogether. And since the game ramps up that way, you cannot expect them to know what to do in these situations where others are relying on them to actually know things. It's a minute but still unexpected level of pressure.

    Most hardcore don't teach, they do, and then ridicule when the 'scrubs' don't step up into line. So if having merciless CC-athons was a good idea I'm not seeing it, all it did was piss off alot of the casuals in Cataclysm since all they got was a bunch of elitist prickery in exchange for their unintentional ignorance.
    If I truly thought it'd help the community improve I'd be petitioning for challenge mode level of difficulty as the default on the spot. But it doesn't. As far as PvE goes, Heroic dungeons are a means to an ends for the hardcore, and I don't care how faceroll they are for us. Challenge Modes and soon Mythic Raiding are where we will shine.

    Let them have it. As long as Blizzard gives us something better to aspire to, and they have, why does anyone give a shit?
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  15. #15
    Scarab Lord UnifiedDivide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KonkeroaR View Post
    Think of how bad the average WoW player is, and realize half of them are worse than that.
    That's exactly my point lol

    Most people are saying "I never had to use CC" and just assuming that the same goes for every player out there. The majority of players don't even visits sites like this, nevermind looking up rotations.

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  16. #16
    We used CC in the brief time we were in dungeons more from habit and it being "the right thing to do". I couldn't honestly comment upon the degree of necessity for various player types, nor who's good enough to push through without but so what? This is really a giant "look at me I'm awesome" bait thread anyhow isn't it? It's a CM quote, not a dev statement.

  17. #17
    He's full of shit. I hit 90 day after pandas were released and haven't seen cc used even once. And I ran with random noobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by KonkeroaR View Post
    Think of how bad the average WoW player is, and realize half of them are worse than that.
    You expect bad players to know about cc or how to use it? It was never needed or used in pandas by anyone.

  18. #18
    Scarab Lord UnifiedDivide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caliph View Post
    If dungeons get harder in WOD the below average player will benefit from us "above average" players teaching them how to do things. So why shouldn't we have a modicum of challenge in heroic dungeons?
    Because nobody actually does teach them anything. They laugh at them and ridicule them, forcing them to leave the group. It's established players that make the game hell for new ones.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Illiterate View Post
    You expect bad players to know about cc or how to use it? It was never needed or used in pandas by anyone.
    Bad players do know about CC. I ran into a mage several times in the first week of MoP that always asked who he needed to sheep. His DPS was shit but at least he asked. It was used by people.

    Sometimes updated...

  19. #19
    Maybe if me and my guildies were skilled enough to not need CC on a couple of the heroic dungeons as fresh 90s we'd be more than 6/14h in Siege ...

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  20. #20
    the title just screams "TAKING THIS OUT OF CONTEXT"

    He's just saying that using CC in dungeons eventually becomes obsolete because you get better gear and patches come out. Dungeons are the bottom of the barrel PvE content. They are literally Expansion launched content.

    He's not stating if the game needed more or less, he's not saying "confirmed, implementing in the future", yet somehow partisan politics tactics are still being used by twisting his statement, it's funny.
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