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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    I'm sure there were plenty of players out there who benefited from using CC in Mist dungeons.
    I don't know. I'm usually pretty proactive about using CC on my main (rogue; blinding, gouging, sapping & stunning) but I've never really had the need to in MoP outside of some stuns here or there or the pre-Garrosh trash. Funny story, when we first reached the pre-Garrosh trash, I blinded one mob and sapped another (as I normally do for fun) and we had little to no issues making it through it all. The next week I wasn't there and my guild treated it like normal trash and suddenly found it ridiculously hard and couldn't figure out why.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakers01 View Post
    I am far from elitest and I can't remember ever using CC one time on MoP dungeons. PLayed a resto shaman to start and switched in 5.2 to a Warlock.
    He's not saying that people are elitists if they didn't need CC. He's saying that people are elitists if they can't possibly imagine that out of the millions of other people playing the game, NONE of them needed CC just because their personal experience differs.

    It's like hearing a statistic about people going hungry and then saying, "That's BS -- I hardly have any money and not once have I ever had to skip a meal. Eating every day is easy, so I don't believe that anyone really goes hungry." That is how some of these posts (not yours, necessarily) read, which arguably is pretty elitist.

  3. #123
    Such demonizing of lesser-skilled players ITT. Disgusting, but par for the course on MMO-C.
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  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorelei View Post
    He's not saying that people are elitists if they didn't need CC. He's saying that people are elitists if they can't possibly imagine that out of the millions of other people playing the game, NONE of them needed CC just because their personal experience differs.

    It's like hearing a statistic about people going hungry and then saying, "That's BS -- I hardly have any money and not once have I ever had to skip a meal. Eating every day is easy, so I don't believe that anyone really goes hungry." That is how some of these posts (not yours, necessarily) read, which arguably is pretty elitist.
    When making an argument you look at the majority, the baseline. And the baseline is that CC wasnt needed in MoP heroics. The statement from Celestion that the majority of players required CC at the start of MoP is pure crap, Ive ran so many LFG with random people at launch and never ever saw anyone CCing, nor did any of my guildies/friends. With this in mind it cant possibly be true that the majority of players required CC in MoP heroics. Everyone knows that CC is non-existant in LFG pugs anyway, it has always been.

    The fact that 5% of the players might have casted 1 cc at one point doesnt invalidate the argument that CC generally wasnt needed in MoP heroics, and this is a HUGE difference between Cataclysm heroics. I really doubt a single group ran dungeons like Grim Batol or Stonecore heroic without any CC in full questing gear. Doing Grim Batol after hitting 85 as the first person on my server with the first 5 people who hit 85, while we were in full quest gear and didnt level our professions etc yet was certainly one of the most fun experiences I had outside raiding in wow.

    MoP dungeons were so, so, so much more easier then Cataclysm dungeons. Cataclysm dungeons needed CC, and MoP dungeons didnt. And trust me, when players are so bad/unfocussed/afk they needed CC in MoP they arnt capable of CCing properly either. If you have enough knowledge of the game to CC properly then you will have enough knowledge to do MoP dungeons without CC aswell.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Yingyang View Post
    I love all the elitest in this thread thinking they know it all. Guess what. when you guys hit 90 so fast and got into those dungeons with barely any gear and had it easy mode, well that is because you know fully what you are doing 95% of the time, and so did everyone else that was getting to 90 that fast. The bad players don't hit 90 within the first few days or even after a week, they take longer, and they will struggle sometimes, cause they just don't care. They will do the bare minimum effort in the dungeon on top of them not knowing their class that well, especially at the start of an exp with all new stuff that was added.
    There are no elitists here, just people stating their experiences in game. I ran random heroics since I was 90 until maybe 5.2 for Valor.. and never recall using CC ever. You'd think after running hundreds of heroics.. I would have used CC at least a few times, especially if this was what the "majority" experienced as "necessary."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorelei View Post
    He's not saying that people are elitists if they didn't need CC. He's saying that people are elitists if they can't possibly imagine that out of the millions of other people playing the game, NONE of them needed CC just because their personal experience differs.

    It's like hearing a statistic about people going hungry and then saying, "That's BS -- I hardly have any money and not once have I ever had to skip a meal. Eating every day is easy, so I don't believe that anyone really goes hungry." That is how some of these posts (not yours, necessarily) read, which arguably is pretty elitist.
    No, that doesn't make you elitist at all.

  6. #126
    CC was never needed in MOP dungeons, not even questionable even in 450 ilvl, there is just simply no need for CC at all in them, ever.
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  7. #127
    I was level 90 very quickly and got straight into Dungeons. I never once needed crowd-controls, but that was because I was running with people who knew their class, and although I was new to Mistweaver, I had played plenty of it on the Beta and been a Healer for several years.

    Just because you managed to burst through easily doesn't mean everyone did. I know a few people who liked to use crowd control, or take things at a slower pace.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Yingyang View Post
    I love all the elitest in this thread thinking they know it all. Guess what. when you guys hit 90 so fast and got into those dungeons with barely any gear and had it easy mode, well that is because you know fully what you are doing 95% of the time, and so did everyone else that was getting to 90 that fast. The bad players don't hit 90 within the first few days or even after a week, they take longer, and they will struggle sometimes, cause they just don't care. They will do the bare minimum effort in the dungeon on top of them not knowing their class that well, especially at the start of an exp with all new stuff that was added.
    If they are bad and don't care then what makes you think they would know what their cc spells are, be able to use it appropriately or even use it at all? You're just making excuses for people without actually seeing how little people use it outside of PvP. Just run SoO LFR and tell me how many people on average use CC in current content. Sorry not buying the bad and don't care argument.
    Last edited by Barnabas; 2014-01-30 at 10:44 AM.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by VoodooGaming View Post
    I was level 90 very quickly and got straight into Dungeons. I never once needed crowd-controls, but that was because I was running with people who knew their class, and although I was new to Mistweaver, I had played plenty of it on the Beta and been a Healer for several years.

    Just because you managed to burst through easily doesn't mean everyone did. I know a few people who liked to use crowd control, or take things at a slower pace.
    I liked using CC in general, but this isn't a discussion on who did or liked using it, its a discussion on if its necessary.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Bad players do know about CC. I ran into a mage several times in the first week of MoP that always asked who he needed to sheep. His DPS was shit but at least he asked. It was used by people.
    It's more likely he just rerolled for mop rather than was bad.

    It's worth mentioning that the first hc I did was shado-pan, less than 24 hours after launch. Naturally the people I did hc's with on the first 2 days were hardcore enough to be 90 already, but speaking for the DAMAGE alone - I didn't feel threatened at all. I felt more threatened in wrath hc's, where as a paladin tank doing UP/HoL as my first 2 upon dinging with pugs we just zerged it once again.

    Less than a month later a guildie warrior tank was 'naked' tanking dungeons with just his weapon/shield/non armor pieces on for fun. He did good damage I believe due to the old vengeance mechanics (it's been a long time, might misremember this) and I personally saw him do shado-pan and stormstout with lfd healers like this, no CC.

    HC's don't have to be super hard, but a fear of occasional death makes them rewarding. While VP was one of the easiest heroics in cata I think it's a good middle ground for blizzard to aim for, as it had a few select packs that were very difficult if you didn't minimize fight duration / damage taken with the healer mana mechanics at the time.
    Last edited by Raiju; 2014-01-30 at 11:07 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I liked using CC in general, but this isn't a discussion on who did or liked using it, its a discussion on if its necessary.
    No, Crowd-Control wasn't necessary in Mists of Pandaria Dungeons, but just because it was necessary doesn't mean it wouldn't have been useful or even easier to use. People are largely impatient these days and refuse to wait a few seconds to get the Crowd-Control going. Just because it wasn't needed, doesn't mean it was worthless.

  12. #132
    I've never seen a single form of CC in any of the dungeons I've run this expansion, it's got to the stage now where I often join groups without a healer and we still charge through... I honestly find it hard to believe that any but the most tragically hopeless group needed CC this expansion.
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  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    I don't disagree with him one bit.

    Anytime anyone says CC is advisable, there's always some guy who wants to scoff at the idea of using CC. It doesn't matter if we're talking about Heroic Magisters Terrace or a Utgard Keep, those people will always be the first to volunteer they never needed CC and therefore CC was unnecessary. Half the time it's people who forget what it was like to do heroics in greens and blues, other times it's people who don't realise their skill level is in the top percentages of the game's players (or they do and they just feel like boasting).

    While I wouldn't classify MoP heroics as hard, there were certainly places we used it when the entire group was fresh to 90. Shadopan Monestary was one place, especially with the sha dudes before the bridge and the big panda packs before the last boss. We also used CC in Mogushan Palace, and I'm sure a few other places, too. Was it absolutely necessary? Probably not if your group was good. Did it make things smoother early on? Absolutely. Would it be recommended to less skilled or experienced groups? Sure!

    I'm sure there were plenty of players out there who benefited from using CC in Mist dungeons.
    This. I was normally the person who HAD to explain CC to everyone H MgT.

    Ugh, but still, pretty fun days! Back when BM Hunters were monsters and not pussy cats! :3

  14. #134
    The few MoP dungeons I did we steamrolled through easy, total random players, first time through for several of us.

  15. #135
    People who dinged 90 in the first week by and large were better then the people who didn't. I remember running LFG the first few days after hitting 90 and just powering thru everything easily with no effort and then about 3 weeks in I went back to cap doing instances and despite having more gear they were way harder to carry people thru.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by VoodooGaming View Post
    No, Crowd-Control wasn't necessary in Mists of Pandaria Dungeons, but just because it was necessary doesn't mean it wouldn't have been useful or even easier to use. People are largely impatient these days and refuse to wait a few seconds to get the Crowd-Control going. Just because it wasn't needed, doesn't mean it was worthless.
    No one is saying its worthless. Again, this is about how necessary they were. They weren't necessary according to most here. But people want to actually need to use them.

  17. #137
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    For context, this is the entire conversation rather than just the last two tweets:

    https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...65768588967936

    I was curious if Celestalon was maybe not referring to CC, but to dungeons being less-than-faceroll for some players. But it seems he definitely is saying what we think he's saying. =/

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    "You are more experienced than most" "It was not the experience of the majority" - why am I not surprised that to people here it translates to "A member of the WoW team tells me about something where they have factual data - they must be lying, because me and my buddies have a different experience" oh..I forgot to add "LOL"

    Next time you tell us that nobody ever wiped in a 5 man or heroic 5 man. Well - I swear on the occasion that we DID wipe, CC would have prevented that.
    I would of course love to see the data showing that CC was used in the majority of Heroics ran. (If its even tracked) =]

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I would of course love to see the data showing that CC was used in the majority of Heroics ran. (If its even tracked) =]
    They can't even track a lot of achievement criteria retroactively. Not a chance they know about CC legitimately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  20. #140
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    It is the other way around. Scrubs never CC. They do not even know what that is. You could have made some pulls slightly more easy, but so did focusing the single mob that had some kind of healing going on. Unless you will need to CC AND focus burn annother target, you will not need CC in dungeons. You needed CC in Vanilla because almost no one had good AoE. In Burning Crusade you needed CC because most tanks could not AoE tank and you had combinations of annoying NPC in trash groups, like a healer and a mortal strike guy in the same group (or even more of those). Now everyone has kickass AoE, especially the tanks. And everyone and their sister can interrupt.

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