Thread: bm bis list?

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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by anjan011 View Post
    if any of ur hunters bring a tall strider, there si 12% armor reduction for entire time. but ur idea is good. we have an warrior in our team, i will see if i can manage to make him work with me during the stampede. i don't get to use my tall strider often :/
    It's not a replacement for 12% armor reduction, it's a cooldown that stacks on top of the 12%.
    (I'm not sure if it's additive or multiplicative.)

  2. #162
    The Patient Thotor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CollisionTD View Post
    That's great. The default priority list I can change so that you don't have to swap them out every time... I'll likely put:

    https://code.google.com/p/simulation...detail?id=2014

    at some point this weekend, if that's as close to optimal as you can get with a generic profile. Obviously certain gear setups will be slightly different, but if that works out as 95-99% optimal for most people, that's probably the best we can do.
    To be honest priority shift a lot with gear. It is difficult to decide a priority which will be good for everyone (the DPS difference can go up to 2-3k between 2 priority order at 565 ilevel gear)
    The major change however that is true for all profile is :
    - Dire Beast should be cast on CD (remove the wait for focus < 90) and with high priority (just after serpent string)
    - actions+=/focus_fire,five_stacks=1,if=!ticking&!buff.beast_within.up , should be removed
    - Update the stampede line that you are already aware of
    The rest is very dependent on gear.
    Last edited by Thotor; 2014-02-17 at 10:19 AM.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by CollisionTD View Post
    It's not a replacement for 12% armor reduction, it's a cooldown that stacks on top of the 12%.
    (I'm not sure if it's additive or multiplicative.)
    They don't stack.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Thotor View Post
    To be honest priority shift a lot with gear. It is difficult to decide a priority which will be good for everyone (the DPS difference can go up to 2-3k between 2 priority order at 565 ilevel gear)
    The major change however that is true for all profile is :
    - Dire Beast should be cast on CD (remove the wait for focus < 90) and with high priority (just after serpent string)
    - Glaive Toss has higher priority than kill shot and kill command
    - actions+=/focus_fire,five_stacks=1,if=!ticking&!buff.beast_within.up , should be removed
    - Update the stampede line that you are already aware of
    The rest is very dependent on gear.
    Glaive Toss , does not have higher priority than KS or KC - its DPE is way lower than KC, and around 5% behind KS. If anything it should be included as a pre-combat action. ( dont think its suported )

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kibu View Post
    Glaive Toss , does not have higher priority than KS or KC - its DPE is way lower than KC, and around 5% behind KS. If anything it should be included as a pre-combat action. ( dont think its suported )
    My bad. I think I just blindly copied the priority you put in FD and I ran so many different test that I didn't properly identify this part.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by CollisionTD View Post
    Assurance has an icd of 115 seconds, and I would set the time to die 20 seconds further than that, as that's the only way to guarantee 20 seconds of uptime on the trinket/stampede before the boss dies. I only have an alt hunter, but I think something like this would be optimal:
    Code:
    stampede,if=trinket.stat.agility.remains>11|(trinket.stat.agility.cooldown_remains<7&trinket.stat.agility.stack>8)|(trinket.stat.agility.up&target.time_to_die+20<trinket.stat.agility.cooldown.remains)|target.time_to_die<=20
    Use stampede if any of the 4 conditions apply:
    1: Trinket with longer buff time than 11 seconds (AKA, not the rppm trinket.) is currently procced. This will flag true as soon as the trinket procs if stampede is set high enough in priority.
    2: Stacking RPPM trinket has 9 stacks or more, and the cooldown on the ICD trinket is less than 7 seconds.
    3: If the target time of death + 20 seconds is greater than the ICD on any ICD trinket, and the rppm trinket has procced.
    4: The target will die in 20 seconds or less.
    I know its ICD, I set 105s on purpose to ensure that it'd definitely not proc another time during the fight, but your conditions seem to do better.

    SimCraft doesn't like hardcore tinkering, though, I find. It likes to melt down when I add that line + some others changes of my own.

  7. #167
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Azortharion View Post
    I know its ICD, I set 105s on purpose to ensure that it'd definitely not proc another time during the fight, but your conditions seem to do better.

    SimCraft doesn't like hardcore tinkering, though, I find. It likes to melt down when I add that line + some others changes of my own.
    I think I went a bit overboard with that line, but apparently it actually is completely optimal to only line stampede up with dextrous, as the

    actions+=/stampede,if=buff.dextrous.up|buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=25

    line seems to be the best.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pichuca View Post
    They don't stack.
    Good to know. Thanks. I'll double check on a raid dummy and make sure.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CollisionTD View Post

    Good to know. Thanks. I'll double check on a raid dummy and make sure.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...1ni3z6p1u/log/



    Proof that they do stack. Thunder clap is a physical ability based on AP, so it will hit for the same amount as long as AP is held constant. I unequipped all proc items, thunder clapped once to get a baseline, then used shattering throw, thunder clapped, sundered twice, and thunder clapped again. If it did not stack, then 14479 should have been duplicated, but instead after the sunders it went up to 14836.
    Last edited by CollisionTD; 2014-02-17 at 12:28 PM. Reason: i'm dumb.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by CollisionTD View Post
    - - - Updated - - -mpletely optimal to only line stampede up with dextrous, as the

    actions+=/stampede,if=buff.dextrous.up|buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=25

    line seems to be the best.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Good to know. Thanks. I'll double check on a raid dummy and make sure.

    - - - Updated - - -



    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...1ni3z6p1u/log/



    Proof that they do stack. Thunder clap is a physical ability based on AP, so it will hit for the same amount as long as AP is held constant. I unequipped all proc items, thunder clapped once to get a baseline, then used shattering throw, thunder clapped, sundered twice, and thunder clapped again. If it did not stack, then 14479 should have been duplicated, but instead after the sunders it went up to 14836.
    The person saying they don't stack probably meant Sunders+Tallstriders, not Shattering Throw =)
    Last edited by Aranoch; 2014-02-17 at 03:13 PM.

  9. #169
    Ahhh, that makes more sense. :P Blizzard likes to make hidden game mechanic changes from time to time, so it wasn't unreasonable haha.

    I played around with BM and managed to squeeze 411,703 dps out of this action list, combined with the new BIS list that someone linked as well. I was getting around 404-405k out of the action lists linked above.
    Code:
    actions=virmens_bite_potion,if=target.time_to_die<=25|(!cooldown.stampede.remains&(trinket.stat.agility.up|(trinket.stacking_stat.agility.stack>10&trinket.stat.agility.cooldown_remains<=3)))
    actions+=/auto_shot
    actions+=/explosive_trap,if=active_enemies>1
    actions+=/serpent_sting,if=!ticking
    actions+=/dire_beast,if=enabled
    actions+=/stampede,if=trinket.stat.agility.up|target.time_to_die<=20|(trinket.stacking_stat.agility.stack>10&trinket.stat.agility.cooldown_remains<=3)
    actions+=/blood_fury
    actions+=/fervor,if=enabled&focus<=65
    actions+=/bestial_wrath,if=focus>60&!buff.beast_within.up
    actions+=/multi_shot,if=active_enemies>5|(active_enemies>1&buff.beast_cleave.down)
    actions+=/rapid_fire,if=!buff.rapid_fire.up
    actions+=/barrage,if=enabled&active_enemies>5
    actions+=/kill_shot
    actions+=/kill_command
    actions+=/a_murder_of_crows,if=enabled&!ticking
    actions+=/glaive_toss,if=enabled
    actions+=/lynx_rush,if=enabled&!dot.lynx_rush.ticking
    actions+=/barrage,if=enabled
    actions+=/powershot,if=enabled
    actions+=/cobra_shot,if=active_enemies>5
    actions+=/arcane_shot,if=buff.thrill_of_the_hunt.react|buff.beast_within.up
    actions+=/focus_fire,five_stacks=1
    actions+=/cobra_shot,if=dot.serpent_sting.remains<6
    actions+=/arcane_shot,if=focus>=61
    actions+=/cobra_shot
    I'm gonna go ahead and put it in as the default list, if there's anything that can be tweaked just let me know. It's easy to change.
    Last edited by CollisionTD; 2014-02-17 at 04:31 PM.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by CollisionTD View Post
    Ahhh, that makes more sense. :P Blizzard likes to make hidden game mechanic changes from time to time, so it wasn't unreasonable haha.

    I played around with BM and managed to squeeze 411,703 dps out of this action list, combined with the new BIS list that someone linked as well. I was getting around 404-405k out of the action lists linked above.
    Code:
    actions=virmens_bite_potion,if=!cooldown.stampede.remains&trinket.stat.agility.up|target.time_to_die<=25|(trinket.stacking_stat.agility.stack=10&trinket.stat.agility.cooldown_remains<=5)
    actions+=/auto_shot
    actions+=/explosive_trap,if=active_enemies>1
    actions+=/serpent_sting,if=!ticking
    actions+=/dire_beast,if=enabled
    actions+=/stampede,if=trinket.stat.agility.up|target.time_to_die<=20|(trinket.stacking_stat.agility.stack=10&trinket.stat.agility.cooldown_remains<=5)
    actions+=/blood_fury
    actions+=/fervor,if=enabled&focus<=65
    actions+=/bestial_wrath,if=focus>60&!buff.beast_within.up
    actions+=/multi_shot,if=active_enemies>5|(active_enemies>1&buff.beast_cleave.down)
    actions+=/rapid_fire,if=!buff.rapid_fire.up
    actions+=/barrage,if=enabled&active_enemies>5
    actions+=/kill_shot
    actions+=/kill_command
    actions+=/a_murder_of_crows,if=enabled&!ticking
    actions+=/glaive_toss,if=enabled
    actions+=/lynx_rush,if=enabled&!dot.lynx_rush.ticking
    actions+=/barrage,if=enabled
    actions+=/powershot,if=enabled
    actions+=/cobra_shot,if=active_enemies>5
    actions+=/arcane_shot,if=buff.thrill_of_the_hunt.react|buff.beast_within.up
    actions+=/focus_fire,five_stacks=1
    actions+=/cobra_shot,if=dot.serpent_sting.remains<6
    actions+=/arcane_shot,if=focus>=61
    actions+=/cobra_shot
    I'm gonna go ahead and put it in as the default list, if there's anything that can be tweaked just let me know. It's easy to change.
    Thanks, CollisionTD. These changes seem to make sense. You've also definitely convinced me to talk to our warriors about shattering throw and stampede as well.

    I saw your update on the BiS, Az. I'm just trying to wait for Zeherah to respond to the questions about DB and the magical 15.1k breakpoint before I update. It's very likely that these tweaks will be wasted if/when she fixes the 15.1k breakpoint in the sim.

    Edit: I'm going to go ahead and update the BiS profile on EJ. When Zeherah fixes this, we'll just start over, I'm sure.
    Last edited by Effinhunter; 2014-02-17 at 03:58 PM.

  11. #171
    I'm running 300s fight with 10% variation which is basically Iron Juggernaut these days, but tried playing with fight lengths (tho I have not gone default as I assume you've tested the above setting at), but yeah, I took the standard prio list and only changed basics.

    I suck at SimCraft (no idea how to rank 2 sims like I've seen some do, so enjoy screenies):

    Collision's setup using the gearset on his Google Code page:




    My setup using the gearset on Collision's Google Code page:



    Will be doing more changes in the quest for the perfect priority list (for Iron Juggernaut, anyway).

    My priority for my runs:

    Code:
    actions=virmens_bite_potion,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=60actions+=/use_item,slot=hands
    actions+=/auto_shot
    actions+=/explosive_trap,if=active_enemies>1
    actions+=/serpent_sting,if=!ticking
    actions+=/dire_beast,if=enabled
    actions+=/blood_fury
    actions+=/fervor,if=enabled&!ticking&focus<=65
    actions+=/bestial_wrath,if=focus>60&!buff.beast_within.up
    actions+=/multi_shot,if=active_enemies>5|(active_enemies>1&buff.beast_cleave.down)
    actions+=/cobra_shot,if=active_enemies>5
    actions+=/rapid_fire,if=!buff.rapid_fire.up
    actions+=/stampede,if=buff.dextrous.up|buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=25
    actions+=/kill_shot
    actions+=/kill_command
    actions+=/a_murder_of_crows,if=enabled&!ticking
    actions+=/glaive_toss,if=enabled
    actions+=/lynx_rush,if=enabled&!dot.lynx_rush.ticking
    actions+=/barrage,if=enabled
    actions+=/powershot,if=enabled
    actions+=/arcane_shot,if=buff.thrill_of_the_hunt.react|buff.beast_within.up
    actions+=/focus_fire,five_stacks=1
    actions+=/cobra_shot,if=dot.serpent_sting.remains<6
    actions+=/arcane_shot,if=focus>=60
    actions+=/cobra_shot
    Tried again @ 250s with 10% variation (basically a good average for how fast the top parses kill it):

    Collision's:



    Mine:


    Also what Effin said, all of this is actually useless since we're basing it on the FemaleDwarf BiS gearset which goes for a dumb hastecap that shouldn't be (unless FemaleDwarf is right about it, but I can't make it happen in SimC)
    Last edited by Azortharion; 2014-02-17 at 04:18 PM.

  12. #172
    The Patient Thotor's Avatar
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    For haste, I tried faking value of gear and going below 15.1k (and putting extra in crit) only drops DPS for SimC.
    14.4k haste vs 15.1k :
    Focus gain : 13.48 vs 13.58 - This result in 2 extra Arcane Shot which in turn result in extra time for Rapid Fire
    Dire Beast : 163.5 vs 165.7 #Atk Count - My guess is that DB gets additional attacks during BL and/or the extra uptime of Rapid Fire.
    Stampede : 42 vs 43 # Atk Count - Same as above

    @Azortharion : Test are done in 450sec fight length with 20% variance with raid_optimal = 1
    Using shorter fight length shift all priorities (both stat and action priority)
    I personally also prefer shorter fight length because SoO does not contain very long fight.

    Btw if you want to compare/rank your sims, you put after your first profile :
    Code:
    copy=MySecondTest
    And then modify any value you like like the action list.
    Last edited by Thotor; 2014-02-17 at 04:39 PM.

  13. #173
    Try combining yours with my stampede/potion lines: (Just tweaked them a little as of this post)

    Code:
    actions=virmens_bite_potion,if=target.time_to_die<=25|(!cooldown.stampede.remains&(trinket.stat.agility.up|(trinket.stacking_stat.agility.stack>10&trinket.stat.agility.cooldown_remains<=3)))
    
    
    actions+=/stampede,if=trinket.stat.agility.up|target.time_to_die<=20|(trinket.stacking_stat.agility.stack>10&trinket.stat.agility.cooldown_remains<=3)
    After I fixed the trinket lines, they work a lot better now. trinket.stat.agility.up only works with non-stacking trinkets, while trinket.stacking_stat.agility.up will only work with trinkets that have a stacking buff. I had the usage confused a little before.

    Stampede line says: Use Stampede if non-stacking proc buff is up (Dextrous), or if the stacking trinket has >10 stacks and the ICD on your other trinket is less than 3 seconds, and of course, if the boss will die in less than 20 seconds. The potion line is an exact copy, except that it will only be used when all those conditions are met, plus stampede being off cooldown.


    I haven't been running fight lengths that short, but I'll try a few out later today.

    If the rotations for short/long fights get out of sync by a lot, we could just create 2 different lists, and activate them like this:

    actions=swap_action_list,name=shortfight,if=target.time_to_die<300

    Just place that action right after precombat, and it'll flag any fights under 300 seconds as the other rotation.


    then just put the different action list under this naming scheme:

    actions.shortfight=
    actions.shortfight+=

    (etc)
    Last edited by CollisionTD; 2014-02-17 at 04:40 PM.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Thotor View Post
    For haste, I tried faking value of gear and going below 15.1k (and putting extra in crit) only drops DPS for SimC.
    14.4k haste vs 15.1k :
    Dire Beast : 163.5 vs 165.7 #Atk Count - My guess is that DB gets additional attacks during BL else I have no idea what could cause that.
    Stampede : 42 vs 43 # Atk Count - Again probably because of BL
    Focus gain : 13.48 vs 13.58 - This result in 2 extra Arcane Shot which in turn result in extra time for Rapid Fire

    @Azortharion : Test are done in 450sec fight length with 20% variance with raid_optimal = 1
    Using shorter fight length shift all priorities (both stat and action priority)
    I tried the usual 450s with 20% variation and my setup is 500 DPS ahead still (however Collision said he got 411.7k while I got 409.2k with his and 409.7k with mine just now.. Not sure. :s)

    Just for the lols, I tried to find out what's up about this haste cap.

    I removed 100 haste from gear and gave it 100 crit in FemaleDwarf and got a 122 DPS increase out of it - however when I removed 200 haste and made it crit, I lost 2k DPS. >.<

    I made those 100 haste Mastery in another test and got even more DPS out of it, however stealing away another 200 haste is once again a 2k+ DPS loss, so this secret cap is exactly 15002 it would seem.

    I removed 103 haste and turned it into Mastery (14999 haste) which was a 2k DPS loss - I then removed 102 haste and added 102 mastery instead and saw a jump right back up.

    Removing 102 Haste and turning it into Mastery is an 800 DPS loss over removing 100 Haste and turning it into Mastery so 15002 seems like -the- spot it wants to hit - not that I believe this is optimal, just interesting to see how it fluctuates. Looking forward to Zeherah's response.

    I can link the increase I got, but I just manually messed with the stats but I guess it'd be possible to get near 15002 haste and have an even sicker BiS setup, but it's kind of a waste of time now.

    EDIT: Trying now Collis.

    EDIT2:
    Unable to convert trinket.stat.agility.up|target.time_to_die<=20|(trinket.stacking_stat.agility.stack>10&tri nket.stat.agility.cooldown_remains<=3 into RPN
    ;c

    EDIT1337: Removed some paranthesis and it worked, but only got 409k out of it when I managed 437k @ 250s, 10%. (heading to dinner now)
    Last edited by Azortharion; 2014-02-17 at 04:42 PM.

  15. #175
    Hmmmm, weird. @ 300 seconds



    I am using a newer version of simcraft that I compiled, but I don't think anything significant has been changed. I'll try and release a new version for the masses in a few days.

    My current "character" uses enchanting/alchemy instead of engineering, maybe that's it? I'll have to look into it later today, and try swapping in engineering.
    Last edited by CollisionTD; 2014-02-17 at 04:55 PM.

  16. #176
    The Patient Thotor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azortharion View Post
    I tried the usual 450s with 20% variation and my setup is 500 DPS ahead still (however Collision said he got 411.7k while I got 409.2k with his and 409.7k with mine just now.. Not sure. :s)
    I tried your actions list and got 1.1k less dps under the BiS and my own gear.
    Make sure you added "actions+=/use_item,slot=hands" to Collision action list, if you run on your profile since you are engineer.
    Also make sure to run both profile in the same tab, so you can compare it in the same execution (using the copy feature i mentioned before)

    Example here : http://pastebin.com/hQVaHEji

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CollisionTD View Post
    I am using a newer version of simcraft that I compiled, but I don't think anything significant has been changed. I'll try and release a new version for the masses in a few days.
    Hum maybe he is using version from simulationcraft.org which does not count the 10% increase for aspect of the hawk.
    @Azotharion : make sure you take the version from here : https://code.google.com/p/simulation...downloads/list

    But then again , like CollisionTD, I use the latest version from the source so maybe something changed !
    Last edited by Thotor; 2014-02-17 at 05:02 PM.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Thotor View Post
    Btw if you want to compare/rank your sims, you put after your first profile :
    Code:
    copy=MySecondTest
    And then modify any value you like like the action list.
    Can you please explain this in more detail? Not sure what you mean but I get that it's rather convenient - will redo all my things with the changes suggested (professions particularly).

  18. #178
    The Patient Thotor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azortharion View Post
    Can you please explain this in more detail? Not sure what you mean but I get that it's rather convenient - will redo all my things with the changes suggested (professions particularly).
    Example here : http://pastebin.com/hQVaHEji
    copy, basically mean that it will copy all your setting and make a new character with that settings. Then anything you add after copy, will be modified for that copy only.

  19. #179
    For the Femaledwarf sims, we had seen that Engineering was no longer top profession once Assurance came into play (the 1m cooldown no longer lines up with Beastial Wrath). So, I'm not surprised that Engineering is modeling less in Simcraft than just using standard professions (like Alchemy/Enchanting).

  20. #180
    Thanks, it's working, sort of..




    I got my setup in full, then added "copy="Collision", then after that I put in Collision's priority, is that right?

    Because when I run the two sims individually, Collision wins by a lot more (437k vs my 433k), whereas in the raid summary there things are much closer?

    EDIT: Yeah I switched both hunter profiles to be Enchanting/Alchemy to just have flat Agi bonuses - this put Collision ahead again.

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