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  1. #1
    Bloodsail Admiral The Penguin's Avatar
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    Mage: ...I feel like a underperforming Warlock.

    So. I've just dinged 90. I've got my Mage. He's all decked out in Epics now. I feel like I should be blowing things apart. Except Arcane, Frost, and Fire all are massively under-performing. What am I doing wrong here? Is there some magic Ilevel that Mages improve by? Or is our survivability in Soloing TI stuff just trash?

    I mean even my SHADOW PRIEST is doing better.

    I just want to turn people into Penguins and chill out some enemies. Some help? ..Pleaase?

  2. #2
    Moderator LocNess's Avatar
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    Everything you can do a lock can do better, a lock can do everything better than you!

    I would say Mages feel sluggish to you get some secondary stats behind you. Frost is the best pve spec overall for lower ilevels (550 and under for the most part), and without haste it just feels slow and like a wet noodle. Once you start getting 510 and higher it should feel a little better, so I say aim for that. The frost guides here are very helpful, and both Kuni and Akraen are happy to help if you post there. If you are looking at other specs (fire/arcane) you won't do well.

  3. #3
    So. I've just dinged 90. I've got my Mage. He's all decked out in Epics now. I feel like I should be blowing things apart. Except Arcane, Frost, and Fire all are massively under-performing
    It isnt underscored anywhere in the game, but you need to have bomb uptime and L90 buff uptime close to 95-100% to be effective.. Its a tax to play mage Also, get DMC trinket if you dont have it yet, it'll help immensely.

  4. #4
    First of all Warlock is just far ahead in damage. If you have low ilvl <560 you will perform best as Arcane or frost. Frost a bit easier to do good damage with.
    And just forget about solo stuff

  5. #5
    Mechagnome Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Penguin View Post
    ...Or is our survivability in Soloing TI stuff just trash?
    In regards to soloing stuff on TI, it really depends on what you're fighting. On most mobs, a frost mages can slow, stun, freeze and still kill things before they get into melee range (i.e. poison frogs). However, other mobs (like the Ordos Yaungol's) have mechanics that forces melee range encounters (i.e. Eternal Kilnmasters' charge) and other mobs telegraph their attacks (tiger mobs around Whispershade Hollow, or the rare cranes) so you can dodge them.

    Lastly, if you're on the TI, get all the buffs you can via Dew of Eternal Morning, Book of the Ages, and Singing Crystal. Also don't forget to get the blessing of Chi-ji (increases haste, crit and mastery by 25% for 1 hour), which can easily boost your farming.

  6. #6
    Immortal Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Penguin View Post
    I mean even my SHADOW PRIEST is doing better.
    I love you too. ._.
    No seriously, if your Shadow is outperforming you as a mage, you might be doing something wrong.

    According to raidbots, mage should be above a shadow priest in pretty much any SoO encounter except Spoils.

    BTW: Due to shadow passive healing, TI is A LOT easier for us shadows than it is for mages.

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  7. #7
    Well, it's probably just you. Check out Noxxic:

    http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings

    Or I should add - switch to Frost and learn how to play your class. No Warlock will ever surpass you.

  8. #8
    Fluffy Kitten Siri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    However, other mobs (like the Ordos Yaungol's) have mechanics that forces melee range encounters (i.e. Eternal Kilnmasters' charge)
    The Kilnmasters have no melee swing, only a cone attack, you could kill them as a level 1 anything (obviously it would take an unreasonable amount of time though).

    On another note the Overgrown Lilypad is awesome for doing stuff alone as a mage on TI.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Dinko1989 View Post
    Well, it's probably just you. Check out Noxxic:

    http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings

    Or I should add - switch to Frost and learn how to play your class. No Warlock will ever surpass you.
    How do people still pay attention to Noxxic rankings?

  10. #10
    It's funny because the whole last expansion mages were the best casters.

  11. #11
    Better class or not, anyway, why bother?

    I also feel handicaped playing as a Mage compared to my fellow guildies playing Warlocks. But eh, I don't know for you, but for me for the moment my goal is to outperform them. Our situation is better.
    I always prefered being less stuff than the others Mage of my class, cause by exploding them on the damages (WHILE no fail, which is the first thing to aim at), I really put myself to the test and I know I've played better.
    Same thing here, everyone says Mages are mongoloid Warlocks, whatever. It makes me run faster, and when I compete elbow to elbow or I surpass Warlocks on a fight, it vouches for my skill to play well and nothing else. No fake excuse.

    I find it more satisfactory this way than to play well + being an OP class, with everyone QQing about us.

    Play Mage 'cause fire and ice flow through your veins.

    But again, I remember when I use to play a lot of Counter Strike, even if killing everyone easily was enjoyable, I always prefered being molested by an divine extraterrestrial that landed on the server I was playing on, spreading havoc and mayhem on its path like I was nothing but a worm.
    Last edited by Psychokwak; 2014-01-30 at 04:52 PM.

  12. #12
    Brewmaster Dutchmagoz's Avatar
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    That's just the case for this expansion.

  13. #13
    Warchief Akraen's Avatar
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    I have a rule. I encourage others to follow this rule too.

    Anyone who posts Noxxic links is a troll. No debate, no discussion. They're a troll. End of story, don't acknowledge them.

    Please follow this rule everyone, and the forums will be a happier place.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Iocus View Post
    It's funny because the whole last expansion mages were the best casters.
    *fire mages

  14. #14
    They are still high up on best casters list, its all dependent on how you use your class, the proper time to use cool downs, and getting your gear level up. There are a coupe of gearing strategies (straight haste, mix of haste/mastery) but it depends on personal style. Currently I am trying the haste/mastery build so that my haste sits at 50% raid buffed and have everything else going to mastery in order to have higher single target damage. It is working great so far but it depends on how you use your class just like anything else. I am typically topping meters in my guild but I have seen mages in other runs I was in that outdps'ed me due to them having heroic Soo gear while I am still getting normal drops upgrading from flex. A great place to go is http://www.icy-veins.com/ that wil help you out alot on how to use your mage.

    FWIW with top end tier gear normal/heroic, Fire is still the highest DPS this expansion as well. But it is very very dependant on how you use your cooldowns and apply dots. The other specs are a bit more forgiving.
    Last edited by DarkstarG; 2014-01-30 at 07:01 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Iocus View Post
    It's funny because the whole last expansion mages were the best casters.
    Actually they were always bad when it really mattered except during T14 maybe.
    Firemages were really good at the start of T14, then got nerfed and Arcane Mages were #1 spot together with warlocks.

    Then T15 came... Fire got nerfed again and Arcane revamped/nerfed. Firemages started doing fine again with ~550 Ilvl which you obtained after progress was done for quite some time.
    T16? Nerfs again for Fire bringing them to the bottom of the DPS Meters. Arcane was decent but generally not a good spec for progress outside of 25man. Now Firemages are doing fine again with 575+ Ilvl and guess what content is done...

  16. #16
    people are not talking about performance.


    they are talking about the lackluster talents...the terrible pacing they we suffer from every xpac and warlocks having more toys that can help a raid in more situations then a mage could ever hope for.

    a locks raid utility> a mages raid utility every day of the week


    locks bring soulstone cookies and a way to transport members from one place to another quickly.

    mages have time warp thats it.

    a buff shamans have warlocks have two exclusive abilities and that last one..demonic portal can alter the world in ways a mage cannot hope to.

    a warlock is a clear winner versus the mage not just in terms of self healing but in terms of having siginificant powerful talents that affect deeps in multiple situations all three of the warlock 90 talents are useful in multiple situations.

    all 3 mage 90 talents only vary in what you have to spend time doing to increae your dps
    Professor Membrane: anyone that would build a space/time object replacement device is a complete MORON "echo" Moron" "fadeing more" moron
    Invader Zim: GIR the space/time object replacement device is ready

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by LocNess View Post
    Everything you can do a lock can do better, a lock can do everything better than you!
    First off, this needs to stop. There is plenty of things a Mage can do better. Damage done is one of them, which also the most important one, beeing a pure DPS class and all. Staying alive while doing so is also fuck easy as a mage, tho probably as a warlock aswell. As for raid utilities, yeah, we are kinda bad. The lock wins on that one.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Penguin View Post
    So. I've just dinged 90. I've got my Mage. He's all decked out in Epics now.
    Epics means fuck all. Since they go from ivl 486 or something to 580.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Penguin View Post
    I feel like I should be blowing things apart. Except Arcane, Frost, and Fire all are massively under-performing. What am I doing wrong here?
    Newly dinged Fire wont blow shit up, it will hardly even burn the target. Frost is probably the best as a newly dinged mage. Arcane I really dont know much about.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Penguin View Post
    Is there some magic Ilevel that Mages improve by? Or is our survivability in Soloing TI stuff just trash?
    Yes. Fire needs a certain amount of crit to be viable for example. Survivability in soloing stuff is good, just need the right talents and glyphs. And dont tank the mob. Kite it.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Penguin View Post
    I mean even my SHADOW PRIEST is doing better.
    Then you are a better SP than Mage. Simple as that.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Penguin View Post
    I just want to turn people into Penguins and chill out some enemies. Some help? ..Pleaase?
    Read the guides on this forum. They are pretty good for all the specs. Personally, the only thing I can help you with is if you have questions about Fire Mage not answered in the guides, feel free to PM.

  18. #18
    Elemental Lord Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaman View Post
    First off, this needs to stop. There is plenty of things a Mage can do better. Damage done is one of them, which also the most important one
    I just want to point out that across the board, in every difficulty (except LFR because LFR doesn't mean shit) on both 10 and 25, Mage is never in the top spot for both all parses and top 100, and a Warlock typically is, and if not, is still ahead of Mage. I mean, when the Top 100 parses DON'T have Fire on top, you know something's really wrong.

    So no, damage is NOT one of the things we do better, because Warlocks do it better. Check raidbots if you don't believe me. It's every difficulty (except LFR), and both 10 and 25.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaman View Post
    beeing a pure DPS class and all.
    Warlocks are also Pures, so I don't understand your point here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaman View Post
    Staying alive while doing so is also fuck easy as a mage, tho probably as a warlock aswell.
    Overall, significantly easier as a Warlock. We do get to cheese a few hard-hitting mechanics though, and that's the only aspect where a Mage can do something a Warlock can't, but Warlocks are much beefier, have a ton of self-healing possibilities, and a plethora of ways to stay alive. Mages do not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaman View Post
    As for raid utilities, yeah, we are kinda bad. The lock wins on that one.
    And yet another point towards Warlock. Gateway alone cheeses so many mechanics (nearly impossible to beat 25H Lei Shen without a few of these not to mention 100% helpful on any boss), on top of having lockrocks for the entire raid; that's a ton of mana that the healers get to save.



    However, the one thing we can agree on is how the OP is upset about being a freshly dinged 90 and underperforming. As far as being geared and doing competitive DPS goes, no. Warlock does everything we do but better.

    Progression pre-nerfed: [T17] 6/7H; 0/10N

  19. #19
    Overall, significantly easier as a Warlock. We do get to cheese a few hard-hitting mechanics though, and that's the only aspect where a Mage can do something a Warlock can't, but Warlocks are much beefier, have a ton of self-healing possibilities, and a plethora of ways to stay alive. Mages do not.
    Staying alive as a mage is also very easy.We are the only dps class in the game that can take lethal damage 2 times in a row (iceblock + cauterize) without drop below 50% health.In case of miss positioning,the glyph of rapid displacement allow us to get out of trouble very quickly as well.

    I agree with the self-healing capabilities of the warlock but the mage is a more errors permissive class,very easy to stay alive even when you fuck up.

  20. #20
    Pit Lord gutnbrg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultramini View Post
    Staying alive as a mage is also very easy.We are the only dps class in the game that can take lethal damage 2 times in a row (iceblock + cauterize) without drop below 50% health.In case of miss positioning,the glyph of rapid displacement allow us to get out of trouble very quickly as well.

    I agree with the self-healing capabilities of the warlock but the mage is a more errors permissive class,very easy to stay alive even when you fuck up.
    I dont like the argument of being rewarded for failing...

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