Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
... LastLast
  1. #41
    Its not like you have any control over it. Having optimal reforging and such is different because that's controllable, but its not like you can command a boss to drop WF gear. So its not really something you should be worried about for progression.

    In WoD there will be no bonuses for anyone anymore. Normal and heroic will be flex and mythic 20m only. All 10 vs 25 will be gone.

  2. #42
    Deleted
    I agree. WF/TF is a horrible idea that doesn't work for its intended purpose at all. It's also incorrect that not having WF/TF is "not a big deal"... it really, really makes a difference. Also it is just frustrating and that is probably the main issue I have with it.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    I agree. WF/TF is a horrible idea that doesn't work for its intended purpose at all. It's also incorrect that not having WF/TF is "not a big deal"... it really, really makes a difference. Also it is just frustrating and that is probably the main issue I have with it.
    It makes a difference because we don't work our gear in a tier from 0, we work it as as an increase from last tier. This is why ALL upgrades are ridiculous this tier, and why we have a *very small* chance for this issue to be fixed next expansion with the squish.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  4. #44
    Deleted
    Forged items were introduced to save 25s. Which was later discovered it wasn't it was just to add more loot rng.

    Now they added these other stats you can get on gear (movement speed, amplification, multistrike, cleave, armor and sturdiness) on top of forged.

    So the current thing is like, you coin something, so it's like ok it's not warforged, QQ.

    Next expansion :

    Coined something? YAY it's not forged.
    Coined something the week after? YAY it's forged but it has sturdiness.
    Coined something the month after? YAY it has amplification but it's normal and I already have forged.

    In most cases it would be downgrade over an upgrade, and I think every piece of loot you coin should be an upgrade. In fact I think they should either give a bonus roll for each boss a week, or give it guaranteed loot to each of the 3 coins a week, so the rngy per piece is still higher but you at least get guaranteed loot through coins.

    Or they could tie certain stats to appropriate things per role:

    Multistrike, weapons and trinkets
    Cleave, weapons and trinkets
    Movement speed, boots
    Amplification, head, shoulders, chest, legs

    Oh well, they just gonna do it in a shitty way and people will hate it and some will even quit over it.
    If they wanna dig their own grave and bury wow, they will go ahead with adding more loot rng and ruining the feeling of getting loot.

  5. #45
    Field Marshal
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    92
    I think that Warforged drops are actually more frustrating for 25 man raiders than for 10 man raiders at this point. For 25 mans the forged drops are actually consistent enough that players are disappointed when they just get a regular heroic version of their item.

    In 10-man it's strictly a bonus. Obviously a small sample size but I've killed ~190 heroic bosses and have two pieces of Warforged gear - and that's with no competition on essentially any of my items. I don't think we have anyone with more than ~3 pieces of Warforged gear and we've had the same roster give or take one person since the tier began.
    Jellogtwo - Druid - Royal Militia [A10] - Main - 14/14H
    Jellog - Monk - Royal Militia [A10] - Alt - 14/14H

    <Royal Militia> - 14/14H x2, US 27th (22nd for 10s only), is now recruiting all classes for WoD!

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Archimand View Post
    if mythic 20 and 10/25 noraml heroic will have same chance as now for the 25man groups, it will be fine, but if they drop it to 10man levels, they can expact ppl to quit.


    also no one will do 50 farm runs, 40 runs is 10 months, no chance in hell ppl will run it that much as corrent content
    Who cares about 10-25 Heroic? Heroic in WoD is normal in MoP, normal in WoD is flex in MoP. So, honestly now, who really cares about "heroic" raids in WoD?

  7. #47
    WF/TF is good.

    The whole "BiS or GFTO" attitude should disappear with time.
    My addons:
    Announce Interrupts: Announces in chat when you interrupt a spell.
    Tol Barad Reminder: Reminds you to queue for Tol Barad by printing a message when the battle is approaching.
    EasyLogger: Turns on /combatlog inside raid instances, and off outside.
    Simple class resource bars: Paladin Rogue Shaman Monk Priest

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Hikashuri View Post
    Forged items were introduced to save 25s. Which was later discovered it wasn't it was just to add more loot rng.

    Now they added these other stats you can get on gear (movement speed, amplification, multistrike, cleave, armor and sturdiness) on top of forged.

    So the current thing is like, you coin something, so it's like ok it's not warforged, QQ.

    Next expansion :

    Coined something? YAY it's not forged.
    Coined something the week after? YAY it's forged but it has sturdiness.
    Coined something the month after? YAY it has amplification but it's normal and I already have forged.

    In most cases it would be downgrade over an upgrade, and I think every piece of loot you coin should be an upgrade. In fact I think they should either give a bonus roll for each boss a week, or give it guaranteed loot to each of the 3 coins a week, so the rngy per piece is still higher but you at least get guaranteed loot through coins.

    Or they could tie certain stats to appropriate things per role:

    Multistrike, weapons and trinkets
    Cleave, weapons and trinkets
    Movement speed, boots
    Amplification, head, shoulders, chest, legs

    Oh well, they just gonna do it in a shitty way and people will hate it and some will even quit over it.
    If they wanna dig their own grave and bury wow, they will go ahead with adding more loot rng and ruining the feeling of getting loot.
    Guaranteed loot per coin? Ye.. No..

  9. #49
    Deleted
    I'm afraid I agree.

    I think it would just solve a lot of problems. Lets be honest, the only reason it's there is to add another reason for raiders to continue farming the places for longer and longer.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Pencil View Post
    I'm afraid I agree.

    I think it would just solve a lot of problems. Lets be honest, the only reason it's there is to add another reason for raiders to continue farming the places for longer and longer.
    Which is a good reason. Before WF and TF you got BiS gear in a couple of weeks farming, now you need to farm more to get the WF/TF parts. It's a good feature not a bad one.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by adamzz View Post
    Before WF and TF you got BiS gear in a couple of weeks farming, now you need to farm more to get the WF/TF parts.
    Say that to Ultraxions ring in Dragon Soul :c

    I don't really have a problem with WF/TF in theory - but in practice I just feel annoyed when I kill a boss for the nth time and the forged version still doesn't drop. I don't feel forged is a bonus but that non-forged is a consolation prize. I feel that the WoD system will lead to higher end guilds farming even more with multiple groups to get as many forged/socketed/affix'd items onto their mains as possible.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Just to put this back into perspective, the difference between HM and WF HM is 6 ilvls. Which is less than the value of item upgrades (8 ilvls). It's not a big fucking deal unless you're retardedly obsessed with having OMG BEE EYE ESS!!!111
    Not all slots are equal. I agree perhaps 6 ilvls on a pair of bracers is nothing to worry about, but a weapon or trinket as example.....

    http://www.wowhead.com/compare?items....0.0.0.0.0.0.2

  13. #53
    Dreadlord Paarthurnax's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Throat of the World
    Posts
    821
    Loot is a means to an end. You only need enough to kill the boss then anything extra is a bonus. Getting out performed by someone who got better loot RNG then you is one thing but it's not really a failure of the system, and not a pressing problem that needs fixing in the grand scheme of things. WF/TF items did their intended job, make farming the same bosses slightly more interesting as there is usually always some upgrade out there if the RNG is right.

    The failure is a players expectation to get full BiS each tier.

    "I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
    --Bilbo Baggins
    Paarthurnax | Peijing

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Paarthurnax View Post
    The failure is a players expectation to get full BiS each tier.
    This. I was thrilled when the developers said in public that having a BiS list was great, but the idea that you could *ever* achieve it was honestly pants.

    My first thought was "awesome. this does make gearing last longer, but more importantly, makes missing BiS gear *look* less relevant, maybe even down to the point that it matches the actual difference."

    Because that less than one percent performance difference is really, really not worth it. Until you have pretty much literally nothing better to do. (My 0.1 percent upgrade bracers say hello

  15. #55
    The Lightbringer Radio's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Drop Bears
    Posts
    3,316
    Quote Originally Posted by Hikashuri View Post
    Forged items were introduced to save 25s. Which was later discovered it wasn't it was just to add more loot rng.

    Now they added these other stats you can get on gear (movement speed, amplification, multistrike, cleave, armor and sturdiness) on top of forged.

    So the current thing is like, you coin something, so it's like ok it's not warforged, QQ.

    Next expansion :

    Coined something? YAY it's not forged.
    Coined something the week after? YAY it's forged but it has sturdiness.
    Coined something the month after? YAY it has amplification but it's normal and I already have forged.

    In most cases it would be downgrade over an upgrade, and I think every piece of loot you coin should be an upgrade. In fact I think they should either give a bonus roll for each boss a week, or give it guaranteed loot to each of the 3 coins a week, so the rngy per piece is still higher but you at least get guaranteed loot through coins.

    Or they could tie certain stats to appropriate things per role:

    Multistrike, weapons and trinkets
    Cleave, weapons and trinkets
    Movement speed, boots
    Amplification, head, shoulders, chest, legs

    Oh well, they just gonna do it in a shitty way and people will hate it and some will even quit over it.
    If they wanna dig their own grave and bury wow, they will go ahead with adding more loot rng and ruining the feeling of getting loot.
    You're forgetting something: multistrike/amp are secondary stats and cleave/movement speed are tertiary stats.

    Secondaries in WoD:

    Critical Strike
    Haste
    Mastery
    Amplification (+crit dmg/heal, +haste%, +mastery%)
    Multistrike
    Readiness (cd reduction)

    Tertiaries in WoD (off the top of my head):

    Avoidance (-AoE dmg)
    Movement Speed
    Durability (no durability loss on that piece)
    Lifesteal
    Cleave


    So you'll get amp/multistrike/readiness just like you do crit/haste/mastery/hit/exp today, each item from each boss comes with preset secondaries, but you'll have the random factor of potential Xforged/extra socket/tertiary stats.

  16. #56
    You should never be able to get BiS in a given tier. I don't even care if you're Method or whatever the top raiding guilds are now.

    The best thing about all the Warforged gear and RNG stats/sockets is that it totally nuts on the massive alt running that heroic guilds do these days.

    To get as close to BiS as you can, the RNG will likely only let one character get uber.

    If you get BiS it'll be because you are insanely lucky on one character. Your alts won't even be close.

  17. #57
    I think Blizzard's going to realize at the end of WoD that all these extra stats are unnecessary when players will likely take whatever drops in WF/TF first more than anything, and raids with full cleave sets might be the difference between making some fights trivial and challenging. Many players have expressed that cleave shouldn't be a tertiary, but I have seen no indication to that being changed.

    But yeah, the notion of getting BiS is definitely dead. I just hope my class continues to theorycraft, because it'll certainly be needed with all these teritiaries, and hopefully all my secondaries are close enough that certain pieces aren't absolute trash. Right now everything's useful to me because of reforging and good secondaries.

    In short, I think we should be focusing on the new system rather than the current one, because it's a hell of a lot more RNG than just WF and non WF. If you don't like WF you really really, might dislike the new one.
    Last edited by MrExcelion; 2014-01-30 at 11:58 PM.

  18. #58
    I am Murloc!
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Posts
    5,563
    Once people get around the fact that you aren't intended to get full BiS each tier you'll sleep better at night. It's fairly rare to get BiS at the end of a tier for every single patch/expansion in this game. I've seen so many people pass on shit or make really stupid loot decisions because they are waiting for that pre-crafted BiS list that somebody manufactured. Then go the entire fucking tier without getting said trinket, weapon or particular piece of loot that makes your hit/expertise exactly perfect. You're never going to please these people regardless of what system you go with.

    They are making it even harder to achieve BiS (probably closer to Vanilla levels) and you will all have to deal with it. I'll call BS on people threatening to quit over it because the type of people who are so addicted to getting BiS are so addicted to this game that they can't possibly quit.

    Multistrike, readiness and amplification are FUCKING SECONDARY STATS for the last time. Tertiary stats are life leech, movement speed, AoE damage reduction and the like. Yes some of those tertiary stats are nice, but no they won't be game breaking. Over the course of a tier things are going to average out and your guild is going to have a mixture of WF/socketed/tertiary items or a combination of all three. Some people are going to get really lucky and sometimes you aren't, you're going to have to deal with it and just take it as it comes.

    To me any problem with these systems went away when they have a single unified raid size, so with that I am totally okay with it. I see the value of making loot more interesting as long as it's not the difference of having a legendary and not having a legendary. It makes farm far more interesting and there is always the chance of you getting something really really good off a boss you killed like 12 times.

    I've been raiding since this game come out and one thing has remained constant. People always complain about loot and RNG when they are on the wrong end of it, but when they are luckier than usual they say absolutely nothing or don't realize how lucky they are. It was insanely lucky for instance to complete full tier sets in Vanilla with 40 people and 2-3 items dropping for each boss. I also remember one of our strength DPS in Cataclysm basically getting EVERYTHING he wanted except one item in just a couple resets while everybody else was a full tier behind him in gear. What did we get to hear every week? How bullshit RNG and how he was the unluckiest SOB in the world because that one item wouldn't drop. Like, lol.
    Last edited by Tojara; 2014-01-31 at 12:19 AM.

  19. #59
    Deleted
    Why exactly are they removing/reducing reforging, enchanting and gemming next expansion again? Was that because it was too "weird" to equip new items? Well congratulations with all these new and shiny difficulties and stats this will be tenfold, as you'll have to sim your character each time.

  20. #60
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    Why exactly are they removing/reducing reforging, enchanting and gemming next expansion again?
    Allegedly it's to remove "extra unneccessary steps" every time you get a new item (ie. dumbing down)...but really it's to add even more RNG by removing the ability to lessen the impact of getting a piece with crap secondary stats, which will particularly affect hybrids with their offspecs. (thus making them want to play more so they can get a decent OS set as well)

    I also remember them saying about people using sites like Mr. Robot as a means of automating gear optimisation, so getting rid of that is probably a bonus for them. (personally I found it useless because it would always increase my worst stats and decrease my best, purely to meet hit/exp caps and crap socket bonuses)
    Last edited by mmoc33659a5ac3; 2014-01-31 at 10:55 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •