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  1. #21
    Large-scale battles are just zergs. They're boring. They stopped being popular because there were options, but the possibility of them happening has never been removed. The playerbase as a whole voted it out by not participating. Blizzard didn't take anything away.

  2. #22
    I perform best in large zergs. Applies to WoW and other games such as Planetside2. From my point of view larger masses of players are more predictable than small groups. I like being able to predict what my enemies are up to. Although i don't like PvE because NPCs don't think at all.

    Also arena changed caster gameplay. There are lots of complaints that casters have to much instant casts and are able to move while doing damage. My opinion on this is that I, as a caster, am forced to move all the time because if I stand still for more than 2 seconds I'm doomed.

  3. #23
    Guys it's fine, you don't have to hate arenas. If you lose maybe 30 times in a row, you will queue into similar people like you, meaning you will have almost 50% win ratio by doing nothing.

  4. #24
    The Patient Conkerzlol's Avatar
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    Arena didn't destroy PvP, it is the only balanced type of PvP there is (3v3). If there was no arena I wouldn't be playing the game, a lot of other people would quit too. World PvP hasn't been fun since the burning crusade, there's only so much you can do in that type of environment. You can PvP on timeless isle but that is just boring. You can try to PvP in the world... but have fun when you encounter the people in PvE gear with 100k extra health.
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  5. #25
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    I don't hate it. What I don't like is the whole



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    NERF NAO!!!!! mentality.
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  6. #26
    I loved arenas in season 1, 2 and 3. Then it got really repetitive. And it got all about the cookie cutter setups (actually this happened earlier but it got brutal). Then blizzard decided it was acceptable to have 30 minute 2v2 queues for 6 months. Haven't touched them since.

  7. #27
    I like playing a rogue and one of the things I like(d) about it was the element of surprise. In a BG or zergfest, no one expects me. In an arena, they already know I'm there. When a hunter sits on a trap and flare all match I die inside. That's really my only MAJOR gripe with arenas.

    Arena is more fun on my alts, but the main thing I don't like about it is the fact you basically are just there to burst each other down and tactics (in the majority of arena play) matter far less than comp and gear. In a BG environment people scatter, you can happen upon random battles, there are objectives that take longer and make it more interesting. I'm not saying they take more skill, but the randomness is far more exciting. Arena battles feel like they are trying to make a FPS out of a game where classes aren't and just can't be balanced. A team deathmatch style play really has no business in an MMO game - just my opinion. If I want to get into a "shoot out" there's plenty of other games that do it better where I'm truly evenly matched against my opponent.

    That being said I've done arenas at a high level in WOTLK and BC but just got sick of it when I started to realize it's essentially a gear treadmill and you just need a buddy who's playing a flavor of the month class to win. It takes a back seat to comp and gear.

    I also got Lieutenant General on one toon and Centurion on another and prefer RBGs a little more. Again though, gear matters too much and comp matters to an extent there as well and at the end of the day I'd rather just have loose fun in random BGs. I don't even bother getting PVP gear anymore, if I die in 2 seconds fine I just don't think PVP in this type of game should be gear dependent. If someones a noob and they walk into a BG, they are already easy enough to kill, all you do by giving veterans gear is just making the game so much less enjoyable for new guys. I tried to get friends to PVP, but they walk into a BG and get globaled. How do they expect more people to play if that's their experience?

    Holy shit I got off track.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by .Nensec View Post
    World of WARcraft.
    PvP should be massive battles, between alliance and horde. Not skirmishes that are called 'Arena Battles'
    Give back Tarren Mill vs Southshore, THAT was PvP
    go cause an AV turtle, exactly what the was. zerg vs zerg taking shot at one another.

    but the real problem is it puts individual player sill under a microscope; no one likes been shown they aren't as good as they think
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  9. #29
    Titan apepi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conkerzlol View Post
    Arena didn't destroy PvP, it is the only balanced type of PvP there is (3v3). If there was no arena I wouldn't be playing the game, a lot of other people would quit too. World PvP hasn't been fun since the burning crusade, there's only so much you can do in that type of environment. You can PvP on timeless isle but that is just boring. You can try to PvP in the world... but have fun when you encounter the people in PvE gear with 100k extra health.
    I would say rbgs and 5v5 is much more balanced than 3v3 is. You have much more variety in them so less chance something will be op.
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by LatexIdo View Post
    Well... It would dictate PvP balance only if that concept had an existance in WoW.
    That's the whole point. It doesn't and can't exist in WoW, but they try anyway, and it's based purely on arena. So even if a class or spec completely sucks in general stand alone PvP, if it's really good in a couple arena comps, it gets nerfed instead of buffed. Then there's also the fact that PvP, to many, should mean large scale battle between the Horde and Alliance factions. Arena isn't large scale, and isn't Horde vs Alliance. Yet it awards the best gear for PvP, so unless you're lucky enough to get into RBGs, arena is required to gear up to enjoy regular BGs. That's annoying, but the biggest problem is that it brings class balance under the microscope. MMOs will never be balanced, and I don't recall anyone caring that much until arena got in the way. It's done more harm than good for PvP.

  11. #31
    Because it's become the end game for PvP in a genre that doesn't suit it.

    In a game based around exploration, collection and war it makes 0 sense to have the only meaningful rewards placed towards only the top of a system where a few people are thrown into a room. Especially when it's supposed to be a World in War.
    It's a mini-game and it's not being treated as such; It's being toted as the only real end game progression for PvPers.

    I'm fairly certain if the top end weren't the only ones really getting the things people wanted (But not everybody still.) it'd still be as poplar as it were in BC despite the fact it will never be balanced. 3v3 is not balanced right now contrary to what people will whine. wPvP was never balanced.
    And when the devs get it in their head what makes this game fun for the majority of people isn't facing stuff like RMX at 1700 over and over again while trying it out for the first time they'll maybe learn that people will be happier with more options.

    I pretty much agree entirely with Itis's post. wPvP and early BG's were an imbalanced mess but that's why they were fun; and they didn't have ego/rating/rewards on the line while being an imbalanced mess. It was for fun with some grind based rewards - how MMO's are.

    As soon as the band-aid is done for CRZ arenas and the shinyness has worn off it's numbers will probably recede once more.

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  12. #32
    Pit Lord
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    at some point even blizzard admited that adding arenas was a mistake , go figure

  13. #33
    I don't find them very enjoyable. I found my early WSG games to be more fun than my s2 ladder climb and I find it more personally rewarding to be influential in a large scale battle than I do winning a game of 3v3.
    One cannot simply quit wow his way into Mordor.

  14. #34
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .Nensec View Post
    World of WARcraft.
    PvP should be massive battles, between alliance and horde. Not skirmishes that are called 'Arena Battles'
    Give back Tarren Mill vs Southshore, THAT was PvP
    How is a gigantic zerg fest of hundreds of player any more PvP than directed arena battles or even rated BGs? I agree it would be amazing if they re-introduced wPvP more, but arena will always be the go-to for PvP because it's a lot easier to balance.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuragalolz View Post
    It seems many players hate arenas and think it destroyed this game's PvP.
    Well, I always wondered why, may I know ?
    People blame it for balance when it's the primary thing the game should be based around, since it's the most skill-based aspect of the game. Also, it's pvp which should come first anyway since it's dynamic, involving nothing but players. PvE is static and easier to balance, it should be balanced second. It's blizzard's fault for not balancing like this but pve players generally have little to no understanding of this and thus blame arena (or pvp in general) for class changes made for the sake of pvp that affect them in pve.
    Because the best gear is reserved to people who are doing arena.
    So, the better gear, you are better in pvp in general ( world pvp or bg's)

    Even if you suck, you can pay someone to carry you to cap your point.
    If you don't do arena, you will get your ass stomp
    It's the most skill-based part of pvp, so the best gear is reserved for those who do it. Consider arena the equivalent of heroic raiding. You can get people to carry you to point cap to get gear, you can also get people to carry you through heroic raids. You won't get the titles/mounts, just like you won't get server firsts by getting carried in heroic raids.


    Overall it's mostly pve players with no understanding of pvp in general angry over changes who hate on arena, that and RBG idiots who run around with their hero of the horde/alliance titles and can't break 1700 in arena but still try to claim RBGs take more skill while they run around AOE'ing flags and turtling in their base with a tank carrying a flag with 4 healers sitting on him until battle fatigue stacks high enough and they 1 shot the efc.

    I really wouldn't worry about it. There's pve players who hate pvp because they don't understand it, and pvp players who hate pve for the same reason. It's never going to change.

  16. #36
    Dreadlord Deruyter's Avatar
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    How can anyone not prefer Arena over the absolute mess that are Battlegrounds?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    That's the whole point. It doesn't and can't exist in WoW, but they try anyway, and it's based purely on arena. So even if a class or spec completely sucks in general stand alone PvP, if it's really good in a couple arena comps, it gets nerfed instead of buffed. Then there's also the fact that PvP, to many, should mean large scale battle between the Horde and Alliance factions. Arena isn't large scale, and isn't Horde vs Alliance. Yet it awards the best gear for PvP, so unless you're lucky enough to get into RBGs, arena is required to gear up to enjoy regular BGs. That's annoying, but the biggest problem is that it brings class balance under the microscope. MMOs will never be balanced, and I don't recall anyone caring that much until arena got in the way. It's done more harm than good for PvP.
    Arena is the most skilled, and aside from queued battleground, also the most played kind of PvP (So it's the most played kind of rated PvP), it's logic that the game is balanced first for arena.
    Almost no one does PvP outside of arena and bg's, most of the players will simply ignore the opposite faction like if it was their own, PvP servs almost became the same as PvE servers, I often do gank peoples when I encounter them, but I don't find it important for the classes to be balanced for 1v1 as it's not rated.
    Arena brought another dimension to PvP in the game, where what you are doing matters, instead of zerging your opponent retardedly without carring about anything.
    Before arena PvP wasn't a "true way" to play the game; you couldn't be good at this game on PvP, because there was nothing to measure how good you were.
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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by .Nensec View Post
    World of WARcraft.
    PvP should be massive battles, between alliance and horde. Not skirmishes that are called 'Arena Battles'
    Give back Tarren Mill vs Southshore, THAT was PvP
    Cant believe people still say this. That was crap pvp. Huge lag, unbalanced like shit, people just ran around like headless chickens.

    Please stop being an oldscool boy because we all know tarren mill sucked balls, hope we can finally move on now.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by .Nensec View Post
    World of WARcraft.
    PvP should be massive battles, between alliance and horde. Not skirmishes that are called 'Arena Battles'
    Give back Tarren Mill vs Southshore, THAT was PvP
    rofl. can't be serious

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