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  1. #1
    The Patient
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    Help: Next HC to do for our group?

    Hi all

    I am not checking which is the easiest HC's generally but which HC's are more of a healer HPS check / dps check with little change in mechanics from normal.

    So for example Norushen is perfect - pretty much exact same mechanics but you just need to be cleaner and do more dps / hps. Are there any other fights like this where the mechanics are very similar but you just have to output more.

    On the flip side Immersues fight changes a reasonable amount from normal due to the shield / adds coming and stacking more (pool clusters), tank picking up the adds. I'm not saying it's not easy but it doesnt play into our strengths (our weakness and strengths are being stupid but can put out decent numbers on dps / hps)

    We 2 shot the Norushen HC vs 50+ wipes on immersues HC (although I think we will get this down next week - no tips needed thanks we know this fight) - Noru was really easy - we only wiped once and this was to enrage which we beat easy next go.

    So any other fights that are simple (very similar to normal) but just require decent numbers.

    From checking the tactics my order would be

    Galakras - same fight just have some range protect the NPC

    Shaman (3 tank - bosses split) - Haromm players slightly spread (doesnt really change anything) - Kardis players top off on prison and use Def cd and shield from priest.

    Iron Jugg - using the stack away from boss on siege mode - normal mode we are spread anyway so just more damage from Ricochet to heal.

    Fallen protectors - Not sure - getting a decent rotation for passing the Mark of Anguish - a lot more healing and I think there is some rotation of interupts on a mob?

    Nazgrim - extra add to deal with and more adds / wave, set a location for the marked player to go away from the raid - execute on tanks make sure topped up and has some kind of mitigation (at least eg barkskin or healer mitigation if on cd)

    Sha of Pride - sounds like there is a lot of spreading and collapsing on this fight - collecting the ustable corruption quickly (not with the debuff) stacking for everything else with moving out of stack as normal for reflection / pride. I dont like the sounds of this fight for our group.

    Any input from players that have already done these would be great....

  2. #2
    Well I don't know your comp, which does affect what's easiest. But,

    I think Sha of Pride is fairly easy if you do a few simple things: use a personal/raid cd for swelling prides. People walk over and soak a rift every time they can (it's a 1min cd on soaking). Keep people dispelled (even if you have to take some pride to do it). Find a video for the group of the new maze mechanic - it's easy to live in there for long periods while people break you out.

    TBH I think Galkakras and Protectors are harder than Sha. But those would be next on the list.

    Iron Jug is harder than it seems, lots of gibby damage. Dark Shaman and Nazgrim are both probably easier than Iron Jug.
    Last edited by Justusy; 2014-02-06 at 02:27 PM.

  3. #3
    In terms of ease..Protectors will take shorter than immerseus, but longer than Noru (obviously).
    Sha is probably the same as Gala..
    I'd honestly go in order from here, there isn't much of a difference in difficulty between them. They increase pretty steadily (and its really not a big increase tbh).
    Protectors - get an interrupt order for Corruption Shock...you don't want any of those to get off.
    Get an order to pass Mark (we used 2x mage and then hunter).
    Sha - honestly not much changes, it looks like a lot on paper, but really, you just do the fight normal with some slight movement & picking up rifts and just switch to the guy who gets teleported. Make sure dispels are on point *especially before Imprison* because if someone goes into an imprison with the debuff on them, it can sometimes be bad news.

  4. #4
    We've just gone in order(except Iron Jugg, didn't have a 3rd healer for that until we'd gotten H Malkorok down).

  5. #5
    If numbers are your str and as you put it - being stupid is your weakness then go for galakras next. Then I'd say protectors (if you mess up the interrupts in the desperate measures phase you will wipe), after that Sha. Sha is all about awareness and mechanics.

  6. #6
    Warchief Radio's Avatar
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    Protectors has a few mechanics changes but they mostly boil down to perform the normal mode mechanics better and do more numbers.

    Sha of Pride's tuning is actually fairly low for a heroic fight but has a number of mechanics changes, so probably doesn't suit what you're looking for in your next heroic fight.

    Galakras is very much like this, since all that changes is the addition of the bonus add (meaning you get less DPS hitting the main add waves at all times) and Thranok gripping in more people than on normal.

    Iron Juggernaut is basically the normal mode fight with intense healing requirements, red circles in p2 and a saw blade that flies around every now and then.

    Dark Shamans is recommended by me to be your 8th boss out of the first 8, I think the reasons why should be obvious enough.

    Nazgrim is basically a tuning increase, though having 3 adds per every wave rather than 2 adds most waves does actually increase the mechanics check, and your tanks can't get themselves one shot by execute.

  7. #7
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    If numbers are your str and as you put it - being stupid is your weakness then go for galakras next. Then I'd say protectors (if you mess up the interrupts in the desperate measures phase you will wipe), after that Sha. Sha is all about awareness and mechanics.
    Thanks to all - yes I dont like the sounds of Sha - sounds like lots of movement and you need to make sure you are back stacked for the abilities. I see people running round all over and chaos.

    So protectors getting a rotation on interupt and rotation for passing the mark and we are 90% there following normal strat?

    As we are on Sha next raid night we will down that on normal and spend an hour on gala HC to see how it goes.

  8. #8
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Protectors is essentially same mechanics except HUGE damage increase all around. The shock from the gloom can kill, so you have to establish an interupt order. Mark WILL kill as well, and you can't put it on the tanks, so you have to establish a CD rotation order. In addition, during Dark Med, you will generally have a clash happen, so you have to position yourself so you can easily get away from the clash.
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  9. #9
    Blademaster Manigon's Avatar
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    I just can imagine anyone wipe on immersus.
    All fights are the same.
    List from the easyest to the hardest imo

    Immersus>Protectors>Galakras>Norushen>Sha of Pride>Spoils>Shamen (3tanks)>Iron Jurganaut>Malkrok>Thok>Paragons>Blackfuse (a bit shaky hafter the nerf)>Garrosh

  10. #10
    Sounds like this is 10man? ((Immersus problems on 10man are normal.. the mechanic is 50 stacks even in 25man.. so its a joke in 25, easy in 10.. so stupid))..

    Generally EVERY boss is easier the immersus in the whole *jump* from normal to heroics.

    If you got norushen down really easily, then Protectors, Sha of Pride, and Galakras should all be right up your alley.
    Don't downplay the difficulty of Heroic Shamans 10man.. it's a pain in the ass. You may even notice the statistic that more guilds have killed heroic Nazgrim then Shamans.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Manigon View Post
    I just can imagine anyone wipe on immersus.
    You must be in a 25-man guild, then.
    Immerseus gave us far more trouble than Protectors and Norushen did (and probably more than Galakras will, I'd guess).
    Proper positionning, good synchronisation, A LOT of healing required in the last few p2, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by BombayRoll View Post
    So protectors getting a rotation on interupt and rotation for passing the mark and we are 90% there following normal strat?
    Pretty much, yes.
    We killed it wednesday after ~1h30 of tries, nothing really hard as far as mechanisms are concerned.
    Big aoe/multidot fest, intensive healing that can be reduced with a proper order (we found pushing He+Sun in Depesrate Measures at the same time helped a lot, and since that also means more aoe/multidot... ).
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by BombayRoll View Post
    Thanks to all - yes I dont like the sounds of Sha - sounds like lots of movement and you need to make sure you are back stacked for the abilities. I see people running round all over and chaos.

    So protectors getting a rotation on interupt and rotation for passing the mark and we are 90% there following normal strat?

    As we are on Sha next raid night we will down that on normal and spend an hour on gala HC to see how it goes.
    Actually on galakras theres another important thing now I think of it.
    When the first tower team goes up the drakes spit on the people on the ground. It can't be dodged and each successive one hurts 10% more or something. You want a strong healer on the ground and dps with strong personals or offheals too. We found 2 dps on the ground let us kill the tower quickly. Get the 2nd healer down off the tower and shoot down the drakes asap. Don't be afraid to let the ground healer spunk any and all cooldowns if needed. The second tower is much simpler but the tank needs to pop a big CD when he engages the miniboss, he hurts.

    And don't feel bad, immerseus shits on us every second week and we're 11/14HC :s

  13. #13
    Warchief Radio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senen View Post
    You must be in a 25-man guild, then.
    Immerseus gave us far more trouble than Protectors and Norushen did (and probably more than Galakras will, I'd guess).
    Proper positionning, good synchronisation, A LOT of healing required in the last few p2, etc.
    ^This. Immerseus has given us more progress/farm trouble than Protectors, Norushen, Sha, Galakras, Nazgrim, and possibly even Malk.

    It's not that the fight is that difficult, it's just that it's a wonky fight with front-loaded challenge that can fall apart pretty easily. Jin'rokh was similar, easy fight but fails mostly wiped your raid on the spot.

  14. #14
    Brewmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manigon View Post
    I just can imagine anyone wipe on immersus.
    My group had Norushen, Galakras and Nazgrim down before we got Immersius >.> hate that fight on any difficulty.

    @OP my group got protectors down in less than 10 attempts, Was very very easy. Very first attempt we pushed all the bosses to around 20%.

  15. #15
    comparing mechanics only (what i think you're asking for):

    immerseus - very different, new learning curve to deal with adds
    protectors - no mechanic changes at all that i can think of, but big step up in incoming damage. can't ignore mechanics/interrupts like you can on normal.
    norushen - same fight, tighter dps check, moderately more healing required.
    sha - very different, new learning curve to deal with rifts, banishments.
    galakras - basically the same fight, but 1 dps and 1 heals have a very simple extra job. obviously, more dps/healing required.
    IJ - different, new learning curve for saw blade & knockback strat. extreme step up in healing required compared to normal mode. very easy to die (i've seen someone go down in 0.0 seconds from mostly unavoidable damage).
    shaman - quite different due to iron prison. also need to deal with iron tombs and a 1-shot mechanic of toxic mist + foul stream. our first kill was a 2down/8up split with 2 healers.
    nazgrim - almost identical to normal with one extra add that only healers need to deal with.

  16. #16
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by marklar View Post
    comparing mechanics only (what i think you're asking for):

    immerseus - very different, new learning curve to deal with adds
    protectors - no mechanic changes at all that i can think of, but big step up in incoming damage. can't ignore mechanics/interrupts like you can on normal.
    norushen - same fight, tighter dps check, moderately more healing required.
    sha - very different, new learning curve to deal with rifts, banishments.
    galakras - basically the same fight, but 1 dps and 1 heals have a very simple extra job. obviously, more dps/healing required.
    IJ - different, new learning curve for saw blade & knockback strat. extreme step up in healing required compared to normal mode. very easy to die (i've seen someone go down in 0.0 seconds from mostly unavoidable damage).
    shaman - quite different due to iron prison. also need to deal with iron tombs and a 1-shot mechanic of toxic mist + foul stream. our first kill was a 2down/8up split with 2 healers.
    nazgrim - almost identical to normal with one extra add that only healers need to deal with.
    Thanks for this - helps us decide I think.

    And thanks to the above posters re immersues (very reassuring) yes we are 10m.

    As we are past protectors I think giving Galakras a shot, we have a shaman healer and they have a decent amount of CD's for the drakes damage as the 1st tower is open. We aim to 2 heal it and send 4 dps up the tower on the 1st one to get them down and the drakes down asap.

    Anyone have any tips for HC shamans doing the 3 tanks split (do you still 3 heal it or 2 heal it?)

  17. #17
    It all comes to personal skill of your team and individual weaknesses as well.

    Protectors require to have good cleave dps and ability to burst when needed (mark add), some survival cds (Ice Block / Bubble/Deterrence etc), strict interrupt order and ability to make decisions on spot (Not passing the mark during calamity / Rook's kick / to sha sear target / that sort of thing), tanks capable of not getting gouged (10 of 15 wipes we had on them were devoted to our BrM monk who has either lags or ADD)

    Sha requires good coordination, healers topping the raid before big Kaboom, dps interrupting the big add, soaking rifts in time and surviving the maze. Personal stupidity (soaking rift before the burst / running to Alaska to soak with debuff ticking) would and will cause wipes. DPS requirements are pretty low, compared to others.

    In my opinion, Galakras is the easiest option for you, however, you need good cleave downstairs and tanks capable of interrupting stuff / stunning the bonecrushers. Tower must kill the adds quickly or people downstairs will have a chance to get one-shotted by triple/double drake fireballs. In addition, 2 dps or dps/healer must be nannying the gnomes (with good stun/root rotation the door will be open at the same time as on normal). If you get to p2 its a 95% kill.

    Nazrgim can be tricky if your raid members suffer from tunneling syndrome or cant see the lines on the ground. In addition, tanks can get beaten very hard, especially in the zerk stance. Good priority choices, personal assignments and fast reaction are needed to get him down.

  18. #18
    Blademaster Manigon's Avatar
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    Ok im out then, I have no clue about the difficulty on 10man. Guess it's based on what comp your are running!

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by BombayRoll View Post
    Anyone have any tips for HC shamans doing the 3 tanks split (do you still 3 heal it or 2 heal it?)
    we've done both, but 2 is preferred if your healers can handle it. anything to get the fight over more quickly.

    since we tried quite a few strats, and i was healing the top as a shaman, i can give you some personal feedback on that side of it.

    2 tank + 1 healer + 1 melee up top : 1 disc + 1 resto druid + 1 tank + 3 ranged below
    didn't like this split at all. same person up top can get toxic mist + foul stream, which sucks.

    same as above, but moved 1 ranged up top
    actually much easier to heal due to the above combo never happening. this was easiest for me, but still some chaos below with people taking avoidable damage, etc.

    same as above, but replaced resto druid with another ranged
    top still fine, but puts an extreme load on your disc priest to handle all damage + prisons.

    1 tank + disc below : 1 healer + 2 tanks + all dps up top
    this was our first kill. healing the top was crazy (fun), and people need to stay grouped enough to get hit by healing rain and CH.

    same as above but 2 heals up top
    we've repeated the kill with this makeup. quite a bit easier on the healing, but also takes longer so more time for mistakes.

    also keep in mind that when the tanks on one side die, the bosses despawn. when we hit ~10%, we send one of the tanks from the top to get on the aggro table of wavebinder in case of a late death. sub-5% despawns are no fun...

  20. #20
    just do them in order, they are meant to be like this and the difficulty scales fine between bosses.

    your players will actually improve instead of just using this stupid excuse "we are bad at mechanics but we are good at dps" ... sounds more to me like "we are bad players getting more gear"

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