Can you all please please PLEASE stop misquoting and ranting the heroic dungeon/speed challenge thing?
The quote in the news summary is: "One idea that came up for Warlords of Draenor was offering a chance of LFR level rewards for completing hard dungeons with a deliberate pace."; the actual quote from the interview is: However, in Challenge Mode right now, the focus is so much on speed you don’t get that feeling of having to go through and mark your CC, polymorph that, sap that, for example. But we’re actually exploring the possibility of having Challenge Modes, as well as the speed component, also offer a chance at some gear rewards, LFR quality perhaps, so someone who doesn’t want to do LFR can do some hard content with friends and get epics that way.
In NEITHER case, does it say "we wanted to have a speed challenge that offers LFR rewards". What it DOES say is: We want to have an option for players that want harder heroics but it needs a time component to it.
I'm open for someone to explain to me how you can make a "hard heroic like bc" without there being a time limit. That's what I initially wanted as well, but I really can't come up with any scenario where that works. The mobs in challenge modes hurt, there are a lot of 1 shot mechanics. If I went in there with my group and we just took our time and cc everything and single target mobs down one at a time....that's easier, not to mention less fun. Ignore the time limit, current challenge mode dungeons are harder than bc heroics.
The arena history stats were removed from armory because they took up a lot of storage space and weren't used by many players. It might be possible to add some sort of history for Trial of the Gladiator.
More likely, they were removed because they were hopelessly corrupted. I have characters that have never done arena that had all sorts of ridiculous (non-zero) arena stats.
I can´t believe the devs are so bad about understanding BC heroic dungeons. The problem is ALL about audience. You cannot design a ´heroic´ dungeon and have it be based around PUGs and LFG.
Let me give you some ideas about what makes a heroic dungeon heroic
1. Needs CD - If there are 4 mobs alive doing damage, it is too much for your healer.
2. Needs priority in kill order
3. Timed!! - No not with some stupid UI timer, but instead with pats. You have 4 mobs you need to kill.. 4 other mobs pat into that group, then leave.. You have just enough time after the pat leaves to kill the first 4 mobs before the pats return. If one of the original mobs is alive, it is doable, but stressful and the tank needs to pick up the 4 pats.
4. DPS need to do stuff - Not only with kill order, but with picking up adds, kiting, interacting with the environment etc.
The problem is all of that stuff requires coordination, and cannot and SHOULD NOT be available in LFG. Cata heroics were perfect.. the problem was they were available to pugs who didn´t have the coordination or patience to learn them. This is especially true of DPS. in LFG and PUGs, you literally cannot count on dps to hopefully dps the right target. That is the reason Cata heroics were fails.. they were pugged by dps who did nothing but dps.
How do you force the use of methodical pulls and CC?
One way is multiple healers in each pack. But why not just pull everything, chain AoE stun, and AoE everything?
Okay, so make the healers immune to stun. But they would still need to be interruptible. So now the groups with a prot pally can still pull everything and aoe.
Okay, so make the incoming damage intense. Bring an absorb healer (looking at you, disc priests) and a prot pally so you can still pull everything and aoe.
Okay, so nerf absorb healing (needs to happen, anyway) and have 8 hard-hitting mobs in each pack. Now you have to bring dps that have cc. Leave those warriors, druids (root is only good against melee), death knights, and monks behind.
So either they make the dungeons so challenging to the wrong group comp that people are frustrated and complain loudly...or make it easy enough that a well-built group still just AoEs all the shit.
For challenge modes instead of having a time limit to the dungeon, they should have a limited number of times you can wipe to gain the gold / silver / bronze. Make the dungeon ramped up and give the players a once a week limit before the limit is reset, and make it based on the individual not the group so people can group with different people and it wont matter. I don't understand why they didn't do this in the first place, time trial anything sucks.
Jesus christ they are so clueless what casuals want. We dont want a herioc 5man with any sort of time component. Casuals tend to take random breaks and should be able to do that without feeling the stress to come back super fast. Also, all sorts of mechanics to make a dungeon harder outside mechanics from the bosses removes all RP elements from the dungeon and its bosses. This is a MMORPG game is it not? This is important for the goal to make a 5 man to feel like a mini herioc max raid, thats what casuals want. We want some cool shit 5 man herioc dungoen with maybe some little RP history and fun hard gameplay.
I think the reason why they're taking in consideration a time limit is because otherwise those dungeons would be too easy, given the abilities we have at our disposal now. Almost every class can CC, AOE, interrupt, self-heal and so on, in TBC it wasn't like that and that's the reason why some dungeons were impossible without particular classes.