1. #1

    To sub or not to sub that is the question. (Siege Para Garrosh HC)

    Hey all.

    I have been playing combat pretty much since week 2 and since we are now siege hc and onwards whether or not i should play sub as the fights are mainly single target battles. I raid 25man i get put on the belt on siege which i tend to find both sub and combat does well on but sub has much higher boss dmg. I have 2 hc wf daggers over my hc wf mace and hc mace. I tend to find that while sub does amazing single target dmg combats ability to cleave gives it higher overall dps and looks slightly favourable generally. That brings up the question is there anything left that i need cleave for? Would it be possible to gem pure agi reds and agi haste yellows while flipping between the specs and still be optimal. To my knowledge i will be doing engineers on garrosh but is there a reason to stay combat for it? Paragons while pure single target fight does require alot of movement so im unsure whether that will hinder my dps as i need to be behind the boss full time.

    Shadohw.

  2. #2
    My advice is:

    - Combat for Siegecrafter HC. I tried all three. Sub suffers on the belts if you have to go through a gap in the fire and get in front of the target. I never got as much damage as Sub than I did as Combat. Sub is also horrible when you are dancing and trying to live with lasers and fire and magnetic crush and razor blades everywhere – it is hard to be behind the boss sometimes. Combat is also amazing because you can have AR/SB for every belt (and use at the start if your first belt is belt two).

    - Combat or Assassin for Paragons HC. There is so much dodging stuff, running in and out and switching and changing direction (especially if you are soaking Aim). I think Sub would suffer a lot. For our first kill I went Assassin to play it safe (KS can be dangerous on this fight). Combat also suffers when you come off targets because you are not generating cps and reducing cds. However, Combat would do similar damage. Sub – I wouldn't bother until it is comfortably on farm.

    - Garrosh. We are on this now. I would say Sub or Combat if you need the dps on Engineers. However, Assassin is v strong on this fight because the whole of P3 and P4 is execute. They are all viable. I would say go Sub if you are really struggling to kill Engineers. Otherwise, Combat (great for killing adds) or Assassin (for P3 and P4).

  3. #3
    Im not really having any troubles with the belt tbh in combat or sub i mean i do die at times due to be being crap but generally i do get it perfect. With cloak SS and some RNG i find it all goes ok. I kinda expected paragons to be a bit crap for sub since the moving and dancing i prob will stick to combat and not go assass until a couple of night progression to get a feel for the fight in a familiar spec. For garrosh i know we need fast execute phases and thats where assass reallly shines and since our raid comp allows me to skimp on AOE i will prob be sub for engineers if i am allocated to it.
    4444

  4. #4
    Siegecrafter : Combat all the way. Having those cd up everytime means you are a solid dps there and allows your guild to assign even less people on belt duty.
    Paragons : As stated there is so much movement and things like that that sub just isn't viable. Combat is ok but cleave is useless, i wouls say assa is best here
    Garrosh : I only did it as sub for the engineers and i can't complain about boss dmg or anything so i really recommend sub here

    Also for your initial question about gemming. Atm i am running sub gemming/reforge even when going combat and the difference is not there or is very little. My haste went down from 18k to about 15k and the impact on my gameplay is nothing. You will have less haste and so less uptime on cd but that extra agi will kick in.

    Edit : i also run with a sword/dagger in combat and just swap them around for sub. For me this is the best thing you will get so that you don't have to change so much between specs.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Nocturnis View Post
    Siegecrafter : Combat all the way. Having those cd up everytime means you are a solid dps there and allows your guild to assign even less people on belt duty.
    Paragons : As stated there is so much movement and things like that that sub just isn't viable. Combat is ok but cleave is useless, i wouls say assa is best here
    Garrosh : I only did it as sub for the engineers and i can't complain about boss dmg or anything so i really recommend sub here

    Also for your initial question about gemming. Atm i am running sub gemming/reforge even when going combat and the difference is not there or is very little. My haste went down from 18k to about 15k and the impact on my gameplay is nothing. You will have less haste and so less uptime on cd but that extra agi will kick in.

    Edit : i also run with a sword/dagger in combat and just swap them around for sub. For me this is the best thing you will get so that you don't have to change so much between specs.
    Well with Sub SD is always up anyway. I have to rotate SB but tbh i dont really see too much difference, we are using 4 people on the belt for our progress 3 hunters and 2 rogues rotating.

    I have been thinking about dropping the haste gems since i find my internet connection isnt allowing me the greatest use of Combat i could potentially have. It seems to not make a difference energy wise. I will prob end up dropping them next time i log in. Well i dont mind swapping weapons. With Nourshens and nazgrims i can work around the hit exp quite easily

  6. #6
    Mechagnome -Raer-'s Avatar
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    Combat assassination and combat. I went sub for our initial pulls of garrosh but we had a lot of problems with add damage in the first intermission so I went combat and destroy one set of adds almost by myself. Adjust yourself to what your guild has problems with.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by -Raer- View Post
    Combat assassination and combat. I went sub for our initial pulls of garrosh but we had a lot of problems with add damage in the first intermission so I went combat and destroy one set of adds almost by myself. Adjust yourself to what your guild has problems with.
    I actually get better values for sub from simcraft by changing the standard EP to Haste>Crit>Mastery. My gemming and reforging for sub are very close to what they would be for combat. I just keep the same gems and forges for combat when I got sub.

  8. #8
    High Overlord DrArtorius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose6 View Post
    I actually get better values for sub from simcraft by changing the standard EP to Haste>Crit>Mastery. My gemming and reforging for sub are very close to what they would be for combat. I just keep the same gems and forges for combat when I got sub.
    I get better values using haste > crit > mastery even for combat... Never bottered to try it ingame...

  9. #9
    Siege - Combat. With the nerf now in place, save KS, KS the weapon and it should be dead by the second laser line.

    Paragons - Went combat for this. I could see mut shining here though. I just feel very comfortable with combat.

    Garrosh - On him now. I'm currently combat and I actually made a thread about this. So far, combat seems to be doing well. No problems with the adds in P1 or the first intermission. Warlock solo's engineers. But I could see mut ripping it up in P3/4 with execute. I may try mut, not sure yet. Wish they wouldn't have nerfed it by 5-10%? awhile back. I think it would be very viable and maybe even better than combat just for all the execute parts.

  10. #10
    I find that AR just gets wasted on the belt. I KS and with AR build like 15 CP roughly. Use 1 Evis and realise there is no point using the remaining 10 since its dead anyway so i refresh SND recup because why not and go on my way. We run 4 dps on the belt instead of before nerf so its still a bit of a challenge i just see Sub being a bit more useful with SD. If mut is more favourable then would be better to run mastery>haste>crit or haste>mastery>crit. Haste is nice but again like combat an excess of haste seems silly i remember reading someone saying that 12k haste for mut would allow 0 net energy cost on Backstab sub 35% anyone know the validity of this or was he just yapping

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